Mormon Temple Ceremony is this real or fiction?

In some posts I am speaking from what Mormon's believe

In some posts I am speaking what I personally believe.

My posts with Athenion - - are softened out of courtesy and respect.

You are digging - where there is nothing to find.

Originally posted by Annee
In some posts I am speaking from what Mormon's believe

In some posts I am speaking what I personally believe.

My posts with Athenion - - are softened out of courtesy and respect.

You are digging - where there is nothing to find.

Ok.

I guess I am wrong.

Originally posted by Cloak and Dagger
Can you link, ideally quote in this thread, some more instances from the Mormon doctrine that teaches man has the potential to become like God?

Sure. this link is pretty comprehensive, but there are many, many other quotes from apostles and prophets stating the same. It's one of the core beliefs, that we are children of God, and as children, have the potential to become like him.

Originally posted by Cloak and Dagger

That God has many creations, innumerable children who he loves, etc.

Joseph Smith on several occasions denounced the idea of alien visitations as evil and pernicious doctrines.

I find those two qoutes in an interesting juxtaposition. Joseph Smith gets word directly from God to love his creations, his innumerable children, yet he then says on several occasions to dismiss and ignore 'alien' visitations because they are evil. How do we know they arn't one of those innumerable beings we are supposed to be loving as God does? Are they evil because they sin? Weird.

The teaching that Joseph Smith put forward, was that God has many children, on many planets not unlike this one, but that they are human just like we are, not grey aliens or anything like that, and that they, like us, have the chance to believe in God, or to sin. He also taught that these other children of God would never be allowed to visit our planet, and vice versa us to them.

Originally posted by Cloak and Dagger

I'm just saying there's zero evidence that the early church once taught doctrine like that, and that those kinds of teachings have since been removed

Umm...

So they removed all the zero evidence eh?

Too funny. Sounds like a covert operation to me. That doesn't surpise me though. The Roman Catholics suppressed/removed lots of texts/scriptures during it's early formation. Wait I mean... zero evidence here folks. Move along...

You're taking what I said out of context. Anne stated that the church had moved from what Joseph Smith originally taught, and had changed it to what it currently is, and spoke of her belief that Joseph Smith was visited by aliens, not angels. My response was there is zero evidence that teachings about alien visitations were removed. I hope that clarifies.

I'm fine with Anne believing that Joseph Smith was a contactee, and she certainly isn't alone in that belief, I'm just stating there is no evidence that he claimed to be a contactee and this was somehow covered up by the Mormon church, and there is pretty good documentation of pretty much everything Joseph Smith taught. And believe me, the church had and has more than enough enemies, if Joseph Smith was teaching something as radical as alien visitations, we'd know about it. If you don't believe me, just look up Mormon on youtube, and you'll find some pretty nasty videos filled with lies and distortions about what Mormon's actually believe.

And Anne, don't feel like you have to hold back to not hurt my feelings. You won't, and I'd rather be in an environment where everyone feels free to express their opinion in a respectful way. So dont' mince words. I can take it.

Thanks Athenion

On No! I was not holding back on what I believe.

People earn respect. You deserve courtesy and respect for your knowledge and ability to convey it.

I can be quite direct and abrasive if I choose.

Softening my stance in communicating with you - is because of your intense knowledge of your faith. I was simply allowing you the bigger platform because you deserve it - on this topic.

Nothing has changed what I personally believe.

Originally posted by Athenion
If you don't believe me, just look up Mormon on youtube, and you'll find some pretty nasty videos filled with lies and distortions about what Mormon's actually believe.

Welcome to the club! Heheh.

It's amazing the kinds of things people will come up with out of nowhere. I think most Anti-Mormons would also be Anti-Masons and vice versa; even if they don't know it yet.

Sad, really.

Great posting, BTW.

Originally posted by The Axeman
It's amazing the kinds of things people will come up with out of nowhere. I think most Anti-Mormons would also be Anti-Masons and vice versa; even if they don't know it yet.

That's probably true. Maybe we should start a support group or something.

What I find most interesting, is for example, I don't know all that much about Freemasonry. So let's say I want to learn more, where should I go? To an "I hate masons website", or talk to an actual Mason? Which is mor elikely to give you an accurate idea of what Masonry is about?

But I'd estimate 90% of the information out there about Masons, and ideas in the mainstream, come from the anti-mason websites.

Like I said, I'm not a mason, but I've known quite a few, and it'd be really hard for me to imagine the 60-70 year old masons I know being involved in a world wide rape and pillage secret society bent on world domination. Mostly they seemed interested in talking about fly fishing.

Unless someone's posted a topic on the ties between fly fishing and the NWO...

Originally posted by Athenion
Unless someone's posted a topic on the ties between fly fishing and the NWO...

Around here? Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

I dunno though; when I first started researching Masonry I checked out the anti-Masonry sites first, because that's what I had heard. It was so far-fetched and ridiculous that it was pretty much dismissed out of hand. Add the sheer unlikelihood that any of it was true to the fact that both my grandfathers were Masons, and, well...

It makes me laugh out loud, honestly.

I wonder what the ratio of converts (not as a result of Missions) to people who were born Mormons is? Like, how many people just up and one day are all "Well, I've read up on it, and I think I'm going to join the Mormon Church," and just do it.

Are there requirements or prerequisites for admission?

I'm not looking to convert or anything, I just would be interested to know.

Originally posted by The Axeman
Are there requirements or prerequisites for admission?

I'm not looking to convert or anything, I just would be interested to know.

Fair enough. Basically, you've got to commit to living the way a Mormon does, so if you drink or have sex outside of marriage or anything else against our teachings, you have to give those up. Other than that, you just have to get baptised, and you're in.

Just curious - - where is it written you can not drink alcohol?

Anne - It's written in the Doctrine and Covenants, section 89. it's a revelation that Joseph Smith received in 1833. It basically teaches that the body is a temple, and should be respecte and taken care of. A lot of people refer to it as the "Mormon Health Code".

It specifically warns against the evils of tobacco, alcohol, coffee, and tea (non herbal), but also states that we should eat lots of grains and vegitables, and eat red meat sparingly, and just basically care for your body and treat it with respect, as it is a gift, and should be considered a temple of god. For it's time, it was actually quite revolutionary, since it wasn't until the 1930's-1940's that modern medicine began to recognize how bad for you both tobacco and alcahol are, and prior to that, doctors recommended smoking and drinking.

There are a few minor misconceptions about the Word of Wisdom. For example, there are many people, and many, many mormons who believe that we can't have caffinated beverages, included things like Mountain Dew. This is categorically false however. No where in the word of wisdom does it say that caffiene is forbidden, nor has any prophet or Apostle taught that either. Of course, we are taught to respect our bodies, and caffeine can be damaging, but that decision is essentially left to the individual member of the church.

Becoming a mormon goes, there's an interview process to make sure the person really understands what they're comitting to, and that they're joining the church for the right reason. In addition to committing to living the Mormon life style, such as not drinking, no premairtal sex, being honest, etc., you're also asked if you believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, if you have a testimony that the Book of Mormon is true, that you believe Jesus Christ is the savior of mankind, etc.

This is mostly to make sure people are committed to joining our church for the right reasons, not because it seems like a neat idea, or for social reasons (although I don't know why anyone would join for "fun", since there's no drinking, no drugs, no sex, etc. )

Athenion - the reason I ask is my husband says there is no where in the Mormon doctrine that forbids alcohol.

He says that one of the most important things about Mormon belief is Free Will.

It does not forbid - but suggests - as the body is God's temple and should be cared for.

I think someone needs to make some new ordinances against sweets.

Mormon's sure love their desserts.

Naturally, one of the important beliefs in Mormonism is free will, we are never forced to obey God's commandements, but the principle is taught that we are to use our free will to obey god's commandments, not out of fear, but out of love. We choose to obey God because we have faith in his plan of salvation, that through obedience we will find joy and happiness, both in this life, and the next.

If obedience isn't asked of us, why do we have commandments to begin with?

Also, Anne, are you 100% certain your husband is an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? Because to be an active, or even former Mormon and not know that alcohol is forbidden, strikes me as very strange.

It's mentioned in the baptismal interview, and alcohol use can prevent someone from being baptised. it's mentioned in the temple recomend interview, and will prevent someone from attending the temple. it's taught by all missionaries as a part of the basic discussions (formerly discussion number 5, but they did away with the formal discussion format shortly after 2002). it's in every sunday school manual I've ever seen, and it's taken directly from Doctrine and Covanents, Section 89, verse 5:

That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father

So I find it puzzling that he could be a member of the church for so long, and have studied the teachings of the church as extensively as you say, and not know that alcohol is expressly forbidden by the church.

Could he possibly be a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, now known as the Community of Christ, a splinter group from waaaaay back when Joseph Smith was killed?

God sees everyone, all the time


In the eyes of nature, now we will live for an eternity.
M. Gira

Athenion - my husband is your everday normal Mormon - born and raised.

We were married and sealed in the Los Angeles Temple. Yes we did do all the interviews and the covenants and all that.

As a side note - you wanna hear how much I dispised the attitude of those men that interviewed us? I honestly wanted to punch them in the face and tell them I wanted a woman to interview me.

But - for my husband I embraced his religion. At the time it was important to him.

We have both since left the church - - as it seemed to move more toward Christian fundamentalist - IMO. There were also personal incidents with our bishop and council. You don't use volunteer jobs as punishment and you do not Demand a person to take a position if they choose not to. And more.

However - - show me in Mormon doctrine - - - where it states absolute "no alcohol".

Originally posted by Annee
However - - show me in Mormon doctrine - - - where it states absolute "no alcohol".

I did. i showed you the scripture in the Doctrine and Covenents. but for further evidence, here are some quotes from various prophets of the church:

"Stay away from alcohol, my brethren. Never get involved in a so-called beer bust. Do not get entrapped with illegal drugs. They could destroy you. They could make of you a slave and the cravings that would follow would impoverish you in getting money to buy more drugs to satisfy those cravings....It is totally wrong for you to partake of alcohol or drugs."
--President Gordon B. Hinckley

“Strong drink is not good for man.” Yet many years have passed, and during that time this doctrine has been preached every week, if not every day, in some congregation of Israel, and still we find in our midst a few who say, by their acts, it is good for man.

I am glad when I study this passage, to find that the Lord did not say, “Strong drink to excess is not good;” nor “Drunkenness is not good.” Suppose He had weakened that expression by modifying it and saying, “Strong drink in excess, or when taken in large quantities, is not good,” how soon we should have justified ourselves that a little drink is good. But like other eternal truths it stands unqualified; strong drink is not good.
--President David O. McKay

Another reason for which I am so anxious that the Latter-day Saints should observe the Word of Wisdom is that the Lord says it was given to us for our temporal salvation. I would like it known that if we as a people never used a particle of tea or coffee or of tobacco or of liquor, we would become one of the most wealthy people in the world. Why? Because we would have increased vigor of body, increased vigor of mind; we would grow spiritually; we would have a more direct line of communication with God, our Heavenly Father; we would be able to accomplish more.
--President Heber J. Grant

No member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can afford to do himself the dishonor or to bring upon himself the disgrace, of crossing the threshhold of a liquor saloon or a gambling hall. … No Latter-day Saint, no member of the Church can afford it, for it is humiliating to him, it is disgraceful in him to do it, and God will judge him according to his works. The man or woman who truly believes in the doctrines of the Church or professing to have membership in the Church, who believes and practices the principles contained in this “Word of Wisdom,” will never be numbered among those who will bring this disgrace upon them, upon their neighbors or upon the Church to which they belong; they will never do it.
--President Joseph F. Smith

The Lord commands us not to use wine and strong drinks, meaning drinks containing alcohol. The First Presidency has taught that strong drink often brings cruelty, poverty, disease, and plague into the home. It often is a cause of dishonesty, loss of chastity, and loss of good judgment. It is a curse to all who drink it (see “Message of the First Presidency,” Improvement Era, Nov. 1942, p. 686). Expectant mothers who drink can cause physical and mental damage to their children. Many automobile accidents are caused each year by people who drink alcohol.
Gospel Principles, Chapter 29

There are many, many, many more examples. I'm just suprised that if you and your husband went through both baptismal and temple recomend interviews, even if you found them distasteful, that you wouldn't be familiar with this teaching.

I guess its how you interpret it.

As far as reading - I will never be ruled by the written word. I take my guidance direct.

Mormons really need to do something about their sweet tooth though.

There are a lot of overweight Mormons.

Wait a minute Annee...

Did you just call me fat?

See - told ya - - kind of like I was this great mathematician - - and Einstein walked into the room. I'd say "the floors yours".

Wouldn't change what I believe - - - but gotta respect the knowledge.

Don't want to leave on a bad note.


Athenion - - I still have great fondness for Mormons and for the most part thoroughly enjoyed my experience. I have no regrets about going through the temple and still remain silent as I understand the sacredness of it.

The people are wonderful. The focus on family and love and health is unmatched. As is their dedication to charity.

Still love how they put basketball courts in the wards.

Peace and Goodwill - - to one who truly walks in his footsteps.

Annee

Where are you coming up with this?

Russell M. Nelson...was a world renowned open heart surgeon, helped develop the procedure, and helped create the first heart-lung machine now commonly used in all open heart procedures. So basically, he was pretty wealthy when he gave up his professional career to work as an Apostle full time. All of his money and worldly goods were given to the church...

hear surgeon = true
wealthy = probably true
gave up career -- maybe he retired

gave all his worldly goods to the church

reply to post by brotherforchrist


Yes You are right, what You wrote is "far different than Christianity." It is also very different from LDS teachings. Mormons do not believe they are "saved" by participation in temple ceremonies. Mormons believe we are "saved" through the attonment of Jesus Christ. LDS women can reach the Celestial Glory without their Husbands calling a name for them. No one's salvation is dependent on the "good will" or "choice" of another. I have been LDS all my life and have never been taught that I will "receive my own planet" if I do Temple Ceremonies for the dead.