Jesus Was An Egotistical Mad Man

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Go back and read that letter I posted. You may see it differently now. If the mud ever gets washed out of your eyes.

I just re-read that letter. I even checked the source. What precisely am I supposed to see there?

Originally posted by Columbus

Trust me, if I were of this world, I'd find a lot more entertaining things to be doing.

Like what? I know it's late now, but have you been skiing this weekend? I don't ski myself, but I've tried it a few times because a lot of my old friends were into it.

Will it matter 10000 years from now?

Originally posted by Columbus
You act so much like I used to, and my friends too. It's really not that funny to me though, because real friendships were lost over trivial nonsense.

If people could see hell just five minutes. That would be too easy.

Originally posted by Columbus
No doubt Christians get along alright on their own, but they slowly damage society. I can't imagine how hard this generation of kids who grow up in places like Kansas will have trying to get into a university when they have no legitimate science education, and the professors know it.

Again, will it matter in 10,000 years. You speak so much about brainwashing, think about the teaching of evolution, "science", and the professors. As kids grow up they begin to look to people as gods. Dangerous.

Originally posted by Columbus
It would be much worse if they give us WWIII in the middle east.

Well, if nothing else makes you see. Watching Revelation being fulfilled will, if you have it in you.

It'll be the last chance the world gets before it's finished.

Originally posted by Columbus
I just re-read that letter. I even checked the source. What precisely am I supposed to see there?

Ask the LORD to show you. He's the teacher.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Will it matter 10000 years from now?

It might. I can't remember what was happening 10,000 years ago, but that doesn't mean it wasn't important.

If people could see hell just five minutes. That would be too easy.

People can imagine some pretty gruesome stuff and it goes a long way towards brainwashing what people imagine themselves without having to be shown any pictures.

I went through a dramatic change in what films I can tolerate to watch after I left the church. I don't even play certain types of video games anymore. I remember playing this one game, I had a sniper's rifle and scope pointed at another guy's head and suddenly felt this just wasn't right. That was it. Never played it again.

Originally posted by Columbus
Again, will it matter in 10,000 years.

Yes, it will. Because it could have an effect whether humans survive the next 20 years.

As kids grow up they begin to look to people as gods.

In a few generations, the concept of god will disappear one way or another.

Watching Revelation being fulfilled will, if you have it in you.

I expect to see humans attempt to force Revelation, but actual Revelation is impossible.

It'll be the last chance the world gets before it's finished.

That I'll agree with.

Ask the LORD to show you. He's the teacher.

No one is picking up his phone. Since you know, give me the scoop. You're the one who posted it.

Originally posted by Columbus
melatonin sent me a U2U linking me another YouTube video of the ninja man in the video you linked me. According to him, ninja man is not a real Christian but is parodying them.

When it's hard to tell the difference between parody and the real fundamentalist, we know these people are 'out there'. I, for one, would not want to be in the same place as these people for more than 30 minutes, never mind eternity, that would be hell...

Glad to hear you overcame the programing columbus. A bit of rationality is the anti-viral here, hard when it's installed from childhood though.



[edit on 23-4-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by Columbus
It might. I can't remember what was happening 10,000 years ago, but that doesn't mean it wasn't important.'

Well 10000 years from now, you'll see that it wasn't.

Originally posted by Columbus
People can imagine some pretty gruesome stuff and it goes a long way towards brainwashing what people imagine themselves without having to be shown any pictures.

If you end up there it won't be your imagination. Or are you already there?

Originally posted by Columbus
I went through a dramatic change in what films I can tolerate to watch after I left the church. I don't even play certain types of video games anymore. I remember playing this one game, I had a sniper's rifle and scope pointed at another guy's head and suddenly felt this just wasn't right. That was it. Never played it again.

Interesting how that tickles your senses, when if you have been successful at leading any astray, you've done the same. Only eternally.

Originally posted by Columbus
Yes, it will. Because it could have an effect whether humans survive the next 20 years.

Whether man survives depends on one thing. As was said to your spirit 2000 years ago. It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Originally posted by Columbus
In a few generations, the concept of god will disappear one way or another.

That would make you happy. However it won't happen. In a few generations those who have rebelled against him will be in hell.

Originally posted by Columbus
I expect to see humans attempt to force Revelation, but actual Revelation is impossible.

You'll see. Unless that's all part of you believing the lie and being damned. Anyway, I've done all I can for you and with you. The rest is up to you.

As I said, go back and chew on John 10:29. You may steal from man, but you won't steal from the creator.

Originally posted by Columbus
1) Applegate is a textbook case of fraud. In such a case, Eve is the victim, not God. Eve is therefore innocent. You accuse me of conning you when I am using textbook definitions of law, while you offer nothing but denial. What basis do you have for your position?

Columbus, Eve is a not a victim because she believes in the lie, not because she was lied to. She could change her mind at any time. You say Christians believe in a lie. So they are victims of their own mind and belief system by your logic. Eve was no different, she is a victim by believing in what a mere snake told her, which was.....................

...........if you believe in right from wrong you will be like God.

Only the knowledge of good and evil brings judgment, the absence of that knowledge brings salvation. Our beliefs are what is condemning us.

[edit on 23-4-2007 by ben91069]

Originally posted by WiseSheep
The evil stamp is stuck on us.

Speak for your self.

They were until they fell. People wither over a period of nearly a hundred years in some cases. Imagine how ugly a being they are who have gradually over a period of thousands of years have deteriorated. Not only physically but spiritually into corruption.

*Yawn...*

In order to raise self awareness is to become aware of what you are. Not deceiving yourself into thinking you are something that you are not.

A human being, living in an "eternal kingdom" if you will. An eternal expanse of space and eternity of time. We live and we die. Every thing that we are is what we are, the deception is what has taken over you. Obviously you believe in fairy dust and unicorns and you are waiting for Jesus to come walking down the stairs of clouds surrounded by a translucent golden light.

That's your problem, you think. What you think about GOD and what GOD is, can be totally opposite.

I'm glad to hear that you don't and that you'd rather me not think. That would be an easy way to pass off your rubbish.

Temporarily.

So you agree? I don't even think you can follow a conversation. You're so wrapped up in dispersing religious fanaticism that you can't follow what's being said. It's sad. This is the most virile and disgusting conversation I have had with any member on ATS to date. There is no good coming from this. A lot of insults and nasty presumptions, but no goodness at all. Pure hatred.

Well if it helps to say so. I'm serious.

Wow, then you truly have a problem.

The truth is the truth.

And so are the truths of lies.

Where is that written?

In energy.

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Yeah, yeah. Where the grasshopper jumpeth too high, the clouds can only be seen below... and not above. Thus he can not drink from the rain that falleth.

If "WE" did that, you would have nothing.

Surprisingly, I do and do not have nothing.

An inmate has freedom too. Confined to his cell.

Are your cell bars shaped in the form of these letters? H O L Y B I B L E

As a dog on a leash isn't bound by it.

Actually it's not. Now a leash around a dog might be challenging, but a dog on a leash... the dog can get up and run away... the leash stays stationary

Funny you should say that, when you speak their language.

How did you know? Are you fluent in demon too?! Zeebok goobok leeder bork mopoy gezoik!

The sun is made to rise on the just and on the unjust.

Actually the sun doesn't rise or set at all. The earth merely revolves on its own axis.

It's rather deceiving unless one understands it.

Well, you proved that.

That's why wickedness is allowed. That's why the wicked can curse and deny GOD and still be blessed. He's giving them their chance to change. That chance is not eternal. This age will end.

*Looks out side at the beauty around and abound, takes a deep breath and smiles*

He that is forgiven of the most, loves the most.

For give... for-give... forgive. For giving. What are you for giving? Oh that's right, you are for giving people of their demonizations and damnations, eternal sufferings and beatings in the lake of fire. Hello... Sata... no, I must be mistaken, he's not real.

There is a way that seems right [and wrong] to man, but the end is death.

Well buddy, death is an issue life will always have to deal with. If you want to live, expect to die. It may not be pleasant for all, but it's the hard facts. Enjoy it while you're here.

Let's keep it truthful.

You can't even agree to keep it civil...

Yes it is.

Actually it's not, go look up our first two original statements about it. You have twisted it to fit your dogmatic agenda.

The heaven and earth were created. The earth was covered in water. The water was divided. The water underneath was made into the sea, the water above was made into the heaven.

Oh gosh. So where was God before Heaven? So, are you going by the Hebrew definition of Heaven? The atmosphere between the top of the sea and the bottom of the clouds? If that's the case, then where is eternal life?! It can't be in... Heaven, could it?

At the time of the flood, the windows of the heaven were opened.

So, if Heaven is up in the sky now... then where is this eternal life in Heaven at? Does that mean hell is in the center of the Earth?! Wait, do we literally live in the sky for eternity?! Amazing stuff here, you should submit it to a scientific research facility for study and examination.

Wind?! OW! lol. Really? Is this the same flood that coincides with every other religion? Wow, so man was living with no light reaching the layers of the dermis? The plants... they didn't need light either? I mean heck, who needs photosynthesis! I guess xylem tissue produced it's own source of light in those days I'm surprised the Humans weren't all vitamin D deficient, etc. The problem with the religious fundamentalist is that they don't know any thing about Human anatomy, nor astronomy or physics... nor philosophy... or biology... Gosh, you know, they don't really know about any thing except for forcing their (literally) God damned silly beliefs on every one else.

Yes it is. Read it.

Have many times... I'll pass. You lack the intellect to see it's faults and misinterpretted, fairly tale origins.

Well, he'll show you at one interval of the earth's revolution. Hope it spins quite a few more times before hand. So just maybe you will understand.

Before whose hand? Under stand, over sit... yeah, yeah. This language is flawed and funny, built to control the mind, and you try to preach at me through it, yet still it doesn't work.

How does one know a swine, unless he first gives him a few pearls to trample?

Well you see, pigs don't care about such petty material values like Humans do. They value each other and they are thank full for their food. They are just happy to be alive.

We'll let those who have eyes to see and an ear to hear, determine that.

*touches his eyes and his ears* ... *looks around confused*...

If I did, I wouldn't be wasting time here.

Wasting time... wasting time... hm... makes me feel so special to be going to heaven with you.

Drive at 100MPH toward a solid wall and believe in the wall. Also believe in how deadly it would be to hit the wall. Then believe in being saved from hitting the wall. Then believe in the brakes that can save you.

Well, see. First I'd check the car I'm driving and make sure the brakes were good, prefferably home made or custom built. My life as the being that I am is fragile and only lives once and dies once. It's crazy to go speeding at a wall at 100 mph to begin with, I mean you're basically setting your self up for death. I choose to set my self up for death through living not so carelessly.

Believe in the brakes, but don't use them and see what happens.

Well, duh. This is a no brainer (almost), you'd die. So, I choose to use my intellect and be aware of my awareness. I choose to use my comprehension of Existence, but it's not going to save me from eventually dying. I'll just do what I can for the planet and its people while I'm here

[edit on 23-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Something doesn't know what it is until the light is shown on it.
Now Jesus came to save the world,

Oh really, and how would that be? By bringing the sowrd and not peace and dividing us amongst our very families. He sure has a strange way of conducting salvation.

but not to condemn it, because the world is already condemned.

Well obviously. No extra-terrestrials have wanted to approach us since, that I know of.

The world only knows it's condemned in light of the law. In light of the law we are all guilty. All equal.

And also not guilty, and not equal. Through our differences we find our similarities, our differences are our equalities.

You can't condemn something that is condemned already.

Sure you can. If you can die and die again, then you can condemn that which is already condemned. I find them to be unequivocally synonomous. See, dying twice condemns us. We are condemned while living here, and then we are condemned again while being judged after we die, and then again while eternally suffering in hell (is that 3 times?!). No mortal can die twice, no mortal can live twice. Yet we are told that we will have eternal life. So we are all immortal.

The reasoning behind preaching the gospel is to show the condemned that they are condemned and there is a means for salvation. The only means. Jesus Christ. Also to do whatever one can to help them understand where it is the condemned go.

Okay, so we're all condemned and above you say where the condemned go. So we're all going to hell is your implication.

It's to give every ear a chance to either accept him or deny him. That's what it's all about.

Okay, well let the Jesus that you worship know that I deny that message, yet accept him because I am obviously acknowledging him. Hope fully it doesn't confuse him as much as it does you.

Then the end comes. For some that means eternal shame and contempt. To others that means eternal life.

Both are eternal life.

I know what I've said, and don't deny a word. What I've said is the truth. I won't deny a word of it.

Okay, then as stated above: why are you condemning that which is already condemned? If you know it is impossible then why in God's name are you doing it? You make absolutely no sense... and I apologize for showing you who you are and how you act, but you need a mirror.

You would rather hear it from me now and change as a result than to hear it from the one who created you and not have the chance to change.

My father and Mother told me the same stuff, they "created" me. And no, I am not changing.

No.

Thank you for admitting through demonstrating to me that you are being delusional

It's a shame to waste precious database space answering the same repeated questions over and over and over and over again. It's been explained, page back.

Well, the eternal dead are the same as the eternal live. One can not experience life and one can not experience death. In essence neither of them know what Existing is all about. That which is dead can not be killed: Jesus/God. That which is eternally alive, can not be killed : Jesus/God. Jesus/God = eternal cycle of life and death = eternal energy.

On the same note, you have to prove he doesn't.

If God is the eternal energy of Existence, that which we are comprised of and that we comprise, then yes, the definition of the eternal Existence is true, only miss understood by many.

You also have to prove that this garbage that you come up with repeatedly.

One Human's garbage is another Human's treasure.

Has been tried and tested for thousands of years as have the manuscripts that make up the BIBLE.

The manuscripts that made up the Bible are from and of the eternal energy. If it were not for the eternal Existence and eternal energy, then there would have been no Bible to be made. Thousands of years are not even measurable from the scope of eternity, that which Existence is, that which is immeasurable; time is defined by nothing.

Rather than some brain garbage that's formed itself between your ears in the last few years, give or take a few.

I have a recycling center within my brain and all goes to good use.

If he were dead.

To never have lived is to never have died. To never have died is to never have lived. Jesus fits both, thus he never Existed.

and going to hell, yes.

Heaven is going to be jealous of the parties me and Satan throw.

Spiritual death is the last can of worms they'd open.

Mhm, the non-physical. Existence, non-existence. Physical, non-physical. See the direction this is going in?

[edit on 23-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

I just want to point out to those who are not yet aware, that WiseSheep is not Christian. Sure, this game has been fun, but the cat is out of the bag.

Originally posted by ben91069
...she believes in the lie...

Sure as long as grandma believes she's put her savings in a real investment, she's not a victim.

She could change her mind at any time.

Except that she's dead.

...she is a victim by believing...

You just said she wasn't a victim because she believed the lie. now you say she is a victim. You really need to clear these up in your own mind before questioning me.

Only the knowledge of good and evil brings judgment, the absence of that knowledge brings salvation.

Every time I've seen judgment, it was because someone was different. Good and evil have nothing to do with it. Ignorance brings salvation, God wants you to be stupid! Are you for real too?

Our beliefs are what is condemning us.

Good, because I don't have beliefs.

Originally posted by Columbus

Originally posted by ben91069
...she believes in the lie...

Sure as long as grandma believes she's put her savings in a real investment, she's not a victim.

It says nothing in Genesis that the woman has lost her ability to reason. The problem is you read the bible like it is some sort of textbook of right and wrong answers instead of reading it as a spiritual message. The woman was already destined to believe the lie in the first place. She is a victim of herself, not the serpent.

She could change her mind at any time.

Except that she's dead.

The woman exists today as it did in Genesis, and I am not talking about the females of this world.

You just said she wasn't a victim because she believed the lie. now you say she is a victim. You really need to clear these up in your own mind before questioning me.

Sorry that confused you. I admit I wasn't clear on that. What I meant was she was not the victim of the serpent, but a victim of her own conscious. Is that more clear?

Every time I've seen judgment, it was because someone was different.

The concept of good and bad are the same concepts mentioned in the Book of Revelation as buying and selling, meaning anything dualistic and polar opposites. This includes the concept of things being different if it brings about any sort of judgment.

Ignorance brings salvation, God wants you to be stupid! Are you for real too?

That depends on what you define as being stupid or rather what is intelligence. I have told you before, that the day will come when the world will no longer abide by the scientific laws of the universe. You are only seeing with your physical senses and little else.

Our beliefs are what is condemning us.

Good, because I don't have beliefs.

You have already proven otherwise. You believe there is no God. That is a belief.

[edit on 23-4-2007 by ben91069]

Originally posted by ben91069
It says nothing in Genesis that the woman has lost her ability to reason.

People need to be trained to protect themselves from fraud, that's why it happens so much in real life. People are actually naturally trusting. Whenever I see a sign that says "Trust Jesus" it is really telling me not to. That's also why there are so many Christians, because as WiseSheep pointed out, spreading the Gospel is fraud.

The problem is you read the bible like it is some sort of textbook of right and wrong answers instead of reading it as a spiritual message.

I read the bible as total nonsense. It doesn't contain a message about right and wrong at all, it contains a brainwashing program that replaces these concepts with stop and go instructions. Go: Kill. Stop: Do Not Kill. Go: Rape. Stop: Do Not Rape.

She is a victim of herself, not the serpent.

Tell this to your granny. See how she reacts. The elderly are primary targets of fraudsters. You haven't come to grips with fraud, in your own life or in the lives of others. You are without sympathy or compassion.

The woman exists today as it did in Genesis, and I am not talking about the females of this world.

So if Eve changed her mind today, there would no longer be a need for salvation.

The concept of good and bad ... includes the concept of things being different if it brings about any sort of judgment.

Being different is inherently bad because it brings about judgment?

That depends on what you define as being stupid or rather what is intelligence.

I don't define these things, they are fundamental to communication, but brainwashers try to redefine them to override innate intelligence, otherwise only stupid people would become Christians and we know this isn't so.

...the day will come when the world will no longer abide by the scientific laws of the universe...

Sure, in 20 billion years.

You have already proven otherwise. You believe there is no God. That is a belief.

This is my philosophical position: I know that your god is undefined. I really don't have a clue what you are referring to when you say god. Therefore I can honestly say that I have no belief whatsoever about your god. If you offer me a definition of god that is not refuted or self-contradictory, that might change, but it hasn't happened yet, and I also know why it hasn't happened yet.

Beyond this, you are brainwashed and offer nothing new to me but the same brainwashed recitations I was given. My goal is to open your mind to this fact so you can deal with it and heal.

Originally posted by Columbus
Beyond this, you are brainwashed and offer nothing new to me but the same brainwashed recitations I was given. My goal is to open your mind to this fact so you can deal with it and heal.

I am touched. I never knew someone so caring as to be concerned with the well-being of my thoughts.

I will stick to my faith in forgiveness of sins and grace through a loving God and you can believe in the opposite.

I am sorry, you are not going to get my mind to go back to my old way of thinking in a box like yourself. It is why the world suffers today - atheism.

Originally posted by ben91069
I am touched. I never knew someone so caring as to be concerned with the well-being of my thoughts.

I care in spite of your dismissiveness. Are you not even curious why?

forgiveness of sins

You haven't sinned and don't need forgiveness. That's snake oil. You have been brainwashed. Have you looked at this link at all?

...and grace through a loving God...

Do you even know what grace is? Do you know your loving God throws people in hell so he won't look stupid? Isn't that the opposite of grace?

...and you can believe in the opposite.

I don't believe anything.

...thinking in a box like yourself.

You mean people tell you exactly what I've told you (like about infinity and pi and Adam and Eve) every day like they were brainwashed? It is actually you who is in the box reciting recycled nonsense to me. Everything you've said is stale and old, worn out from overuse, and smells like it too.

It is why the world suffers today - atheism.

The powers of this world are religious. George W. Bush, Osama Bin Laden, Saudi's, Iranians, Afghanis, everyone. Who are the atheists causing suffering?

Originally posted by Columbus
I care in spite of your dismissiveness. Are you not even curious why?

Why you believe the way you do? or something else? What exactly are you asking here?

You haven't sinned and don't need forgiveness. That's snake oil. You have been brainwashed. Have you looked at this link at all?

Everyone has sinned Columbus, but it is not the way you think they have. No, I have not read the link you miraculously conjured up. I may read it and I may not. From the title, I gather it supports at least in part your hypothesis on brainwashing of religious types, but this would only apply if you actually were told what to believe in, don't you think. Would it surprise you that I last read an entire book of the bible over 10 years ago or that the last time I sat in a church was longer than that, or that much of what I base my faith on now is by meditation alone of what the truth of God may be? Brainwashing usually requires a concerted effort to get people to believe in something to achieve a certain goal would it not?

What would be my goal Columbus?

...and grace through a loving God...

Do you even know what grace is? Do you know your loving God throws people in hell so he won't look stupid? Isn't that the opposite of grace?

You have been brainwashed more than those you accuse. I used to think your way. You are a fundamentalist Christian-atheist!! LOL

I don't believe anything.

Do you believe you will die some day? A simple yes or no will suffice.

It is actually you who is in the box reciting recycled nonsense to me. Everything you've said is stale and old, worn out from overuse, and smells like it too.

A finite world is boxed in. An infinite universe is well beyond the limitations of a box. Your world revolves around beginnings and endings and everything inbetween with not much latitude. My world accepts all and forgives all. Everything you have said is the old bit and everything I speak of is the new stuff. Your false Christian "friends" deceived you when you were vulnerable and knocked your house off its foundations before you were able to build upon it. Does this surprise you? Why don't you blame them for lying to you instead of the few left who do know a little something. Do you think I have been studying spirituality as applied to Christianity for over thirty years and not know a little bit of some truth here. Have I conned you into believing in some weird dogmatic belief that God wants you to go to church on Saturday, not take a blood transfusion, have communion, be baptised with water, or wear a garment not made of two types of cloth? I testify to one thing only and that is unconditional salvation through the act of love by God. Is that so wrong?

The powers of this world are religious. George W. Bush, Osama Bin Laden, Saudi's, Iranians, Afghanis, everyone. Who are the atheists causing suffering?

First, GWB is not religious, although he appeals to Christians on TV. OBL probably does the same with appealing to Islamic peoples to get them to fight a Jihad. The rest of those nations are like the rest of the world. It isn't the religious who are out starting wars. The leaders of the world could care less about religion but know well that to lead the people into a slaughter they can use religion as a tool to guide the sheep. I agree that the majority of professed religious types have no foundations to their beliefs, but follow along so to be used as fodder for a cause, but that is not what true spirituality is and certainly not the original message many teachings were born as.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Oh really, and how would that be? By bringing the sowrd and not peace and dividing us amongst our very families. He sure has a strange way of conducting salvation.

The Righteous Judge wont waste his time and resources pardoning one who isn't sorry for what he's done, and wont.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

The world only knows it's condemned in light of the law. In light of the law we are all guilty. All equal.

And also not guilty, and not equal. Through our differences we find our similarities, our differences are our equalities.

Which would be lovely if your lousy word was final. You hold no weight what so ever. No one is going to stand before you and be judged by you on the great day.

Those who have been moron enough to follow you, you'll just laugh at.

GOD's word is final, he's the judge. Whether you like it or not, your knee will bow also, and you have no whining excuse that will cut it.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

The reasoning behind preaching the gospel is to show the condemned that they are condemned and there is a means for salvation. The only means. Jesus Christ. Also to do whatever one can to help them understand where it is the condemned go.

Okay, so we're all condemned and above you say where the condemned go. So we're all going to hell is your implication.

Yes without Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Okay, well let the Jesus that you worship know that I deny that message, yet accept him because I am obviously acknowledging him. Hope fully it doesn't confuse him as much as it does you.

Yes the demons do accept him and tremble. Go back to the brakes on the car analogy and rip the scales off your eyes.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Then the end comes. For some that means eternal shame and contempt. To others that means eternal life.

Both are eternal life.

Indeed. The second death will make one wish he could be eternally snuffed out of existence.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Okay, then as stated above: why are you condemning that which is already condemned?

I'm showing that which is condemned that it's condemned already. I'm not just showing the condemned that they are, but also going out of the way to make a point, that they have hope. The only hope, Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
If you know it is impossible then why in God's name are you doing it? You make absolutely no sense... and I apologize for showing you who you are and how you act, but you need a mirror.

See above. On the same note, I do not apologize for doing you a favor and showing you and everyone else precisely what you are and what you are set out to do here. You've done an outstanding job showing them. If at some point you gain sight. It'll be to your advantage. In the meantime, you're on the road to hell.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
And no, I am not changing.

Well, you know where you are going as a result of it, so that raps us up here. The beauty of free will, the choice to accept the gospel or deny it.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Well, the eternal dead are the same as the eternal live.

One in hell and the other before GOD.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
One can not experience life and one can not experience death. In essence neither of them know what Existing is all about. That which is dead can not be killed: Jesus/God. That which is eternally alive, can not be killed : Jesus/God. Jesus/God = eternal cycle of life and death = eternal energy.

On the same note, you have to prove he doesn't.

If God is the eternal energy of Existence, that which we are comprised of and that we comprise, then yes, the definition of the eternal Existence is true, only miss understood by many.

You also have to prove that this garbage that you come up with repeatedly.

One Human's garbage is another Human's treasure.

Has been tried and tested for thousands of years as have the manuscripts that make up the BIBLE.

The manuscripts that made up the Bible are from and of the eternal energy. If it were not for the eternal Existence and eternal energy, then there would have been no Bible to be made. Thousands of years are not even measurable from the scope of eternity, that which Existence is, that which is immeasurable; time is defined by nothing.

Rather than some brain garbage that's formed itself between your ears in the last few years, give or take a few.

I have a recycling center within my brain and all goes to good use.

If he were dead.

To never have lived is to never have died. To never have died is to never have lived. Jesus fits both, thus he never Existed.

and going to hell, yes.

Heaven is going to be jealous of the parties me and Satan throw.

Spiritual death is the last can of worms they'd open.

Mhm, the non-physical. Existence, non-existence. Physical, non-physical. See the direction this is going in?

If you were the creator, I'd take your word for it. However you are nothing in comparison. Therefore your word is about as useless as tits on a boar hog.

Originally posted by Columbus
I just want to point out to those who are not yet aware, that WiseSheep is not Christian. Sure, this game has been fun, but the cat is out of the bag.

Why? Because, I've hit you with more truth than you heard all the time* you played dress up?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by WiseSheep]

Originally posted by Columbus
No WWII never happened and there was no need to draw the borders of Iraq after that war.
....

Let's stay with the facts.........WWII had nothing to do with a coalition of nations coming to destroy Babylon.

Yes, I was in the city of Babylon last month, it wasn't destroyed.

I guess that proves my point.

The entire United States military will board time machines and travel back to ancient Babylon.

No need..........Iraq is ancient Babylon.

You mean Iraq?

Same horse...........different day

Before or after the Turks wipe them out?

Actually there are many Kurds in Turkey.

You condone attempts to wipe out the Jews?

Is that what the facts say........or are you denying the facts and putting words in my mouth?

Why do you think that this must be inevitable unless god is protecting them? Why not make the same claim for the Greeks? Every attempt to wipe out the Greeks has failed yet it cannot happen! Doesn't this reveal that attempts to wipe out the Jews are inherently attempts to self-fulfill prophecy? Because the messiah is prophecied to come if you try it, of course!

You seem to have trouble addressing the facts. Did Hitler try to wipe the Jews from the face of the earth? Do the Muslims seek to wipe the Jews from the earth? Do the Arabs seek to wipe the Jews from the face of the earth?

I am truly astounded by the lack of independent thinking!

I would say I am astounded by your denial of the facts.............but that seems to be a common theme in this world we live in.

Originally posted by ben91069
Why you believe the way you do? or something else? What exactly are you asking here?

Why aren't you curious about why I care? Certainly others would accuse me of being controlled by demonic forces (oh, how caring demons can be!), or of being a soulless materialistic atheist.

Everyone has sinned Columbus, but it is not the way you think they have.

I think that sin is an act that makes God the victim, and since God doesn't exist, sin is impossible. As for hurting real people, forgiveness must come from them, not God, as I explained earlier.

No, I have not read the link you miraculously conjured up.

Miraculous, I don't know, Wikipedia's articles aren't exactly the most thorough, particularly on the topic of religious cults. Since it is considered "controversial" it's all toned down and wishy-washy. When I left the church it took me a long time to piece together what happened to me and figure it out and only then could I heal. I'm just pointing the way to make it easier for you.

Would it surprise you that I last read an entire book of the bible over 10 years ago or that the last time I sat in a church was longer than that, or that much of what I base my faith on now is by meditation alone of what the truth of God may be?

You and I are not as far apart as you might think.

..but this would only apply if you actually were told what to believe in, don't you think. ... Brainwashing usually requires a concerted effort to get people to believe in something to achieve a certain goal would it not?

Not necessarily. The kind of brute force brainwashing used by military and intelligence agencies is a bit different than what you find in a church, motivational group, or cult. These groups don't want to be in a position of having to cover up what they've done to you, so they are more subtle and take longer.

Really all that you need to believe in is your own fear. If fear controls you, then others do. I may be wrong about you. You may not be brainwashed, but I leave that to you to investigate and decide for yourself. If it doesn't look like you're exposed to the right conditions and don't base your decisions on fear, you've probably got nothing to worry about.

What would be my goal Columbus?

You tell me. I thought this thread was going to die.

You have been brainwashed more than those you accuse. I used to think your way. You are a fundamentalist Christian-atheist!! LOL

I've been called that before, but since I am very familiar with brainwashing techniques as well as all pro-god arguments and sentiments, and the fact that atheism is not an organization and has no articles of faith to promote as fundamental, nothing you said is justifiable.

You may indeed still think as I do, but it seems to me the key difference between us in basing our opposing opinions on is knowledge. You seem to lack it.

I may read it and I may not.

I recommend reading about brainwashing as used in cults. Even if you are not a member of a cult now, it can protect you in the future. It can protect your children and grandchildren if you educate them and can spot the warning signs. Cult mind control is very difficult to undo as I can tell you from personal experience.

Do you believe you will die some day? A simple yes or no will suffice.

I know I will die someday, so no, I don't believe.

A finite world is boxed in. An infinite universe is well beyond the limitations of a box. Your world revolves around beginnings and endings and everything inbetween with not much latitude.

This is a misconception of infinity. Without bounds, it is impossible to correlate.

My world accepts all and forgives all.

So, you want me to believe in "Ben's World"?

Everything you have said is the old bit and everything I speak of is the new stuff.

If you mean "Ben's World", sure, that's new.

Your false Christian "friends" deceived you when you were vulnerable and knocked your house off its foundations before you were able to build upon it.

This sounds a little fluffy to me. I mean if you are referring to my entry iton the church, maybe, but what do you think I was building?

Why don't you blame them for lying to you instead of the few left who do know a little something.

To say they were lying implies they knew they were wrong, which they did not. Who are the "few left"?

Do you think I have been studying spirituality as applied to Christianity for over thirty years and not know a little bit of some truth here.

Christianity is actually not a very spiritual religion. Many cults are based on it, but almost no spiritual movements with any significance. Spirituality and cult behavior are polar opposites. I have nothing against spirituality at all.

Have I conned you into believing in some weird dogmatic belief...

You should ask if you tried, and you're right. I apologize. I may have overreacted.

I testify to one thing only and that is unconditional salvation through the act of love by God. Is that so wrong?

It is if a person needs no salvation. Why do I need salvation? And what do you mean by love? Do you understand the concept of "agape"?

First, GWB is not religious, although he appeals to Christians on TV. OBL probably does the same with appealing to Islamic peoples to get them to fight a Jihad.

Religion is exactly that. What you do. It is technically unspiritual spirituality. The opposite claim, that GWB and OBL are purely secular, would be quite ridiculous and impossible to back up.

The rest of those nations are like the rest of the world.

Get out more.

It isn't the religious who are out starting wars. ...to lead the people into a slaughter they can use religion as a tool to guide the sheep.

The way I look at what you are saying, is that being religious makes you a victim, so don't be religious and there won't be any wars. I don't equate religion and spirituality, they are opposites.

Why? Because, I've hit you with more truth than you heard all the time* you played dress up?

You're right. This game is too fun. I can't help it. At least it's good learning material for the kiddies.

Yes the demons do accept him and tremble. Go back to the brakes on the car analogy and rip the scales off your eyes.

When you apply the brakes on your car, it just stops. It doesn't require some mysterious, unreliable agency.

Indeed. The second death will make one wish he could be eternally snuffed out of existence.

Exactly what exposes Second Death as a brainwashing tool and nothing more.

I'm showing that which is condemned that it's condemned already. I'm not just showing the condemned that they are, but also going out of the way to make a point, that they have hope. The only hope, Jesus Christ.

Help me, Snake Oil! You're my Only Hope!

The beauty of free will, the choice to accept the gospel or deny it.

Why chalk up to Free Will what is owned by knowledge? It must be because God has no Free Will, huh?

One in hell and the other before GOD.

As if there was a difference.

One Human's garbage is another Human's treasure.

I tell that to my wife all the time.

Originally posted by ColumbusSo, you want me to believe in "Ben's World"?

Not at all. There is no reason for me to try to change your beliefs, as they do not offend me nor the Father.

You wrote so much Columbus, that I will have to delay a little in a follow up response, as it would not do you justice if I did not give it some thought. Thanks for the replies though. They are very enlightening even if we don't fully see eye to eye. I want to fully understand the justification of your beliefs if anything to just know more about it.