Jesus Was An Egotistical Mad Man

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Every thing you just said is what you do, my friend.

The accuser of the brethren. Yes.

If you had eyes to see, You'd see my motive is pure. As does anyone who can see.

Without coming to the knowledge and understanding that you are condemned already. You can't accept salvation.

If I went out of my way to please you and keep you happy just as you are, a murderer and bound for hell. What good would I do you?

If you are parading around righteous in your own eyes. When in the eyes of GOD you are a dead wretched filthy heap of no good sin filled flesh.

You need to be hit with powerful words to cut you down to size, so you can look up and see him. If you have eyes to see him.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
And what you said about blowing someone's head off... well, we were talking about Columbus on that one!

Yes we were talking about Columbus. Planting seeds in one that could destroy their possibility at life itself is murdering them. Why does mentioning blowing someone's head off offend you? One would be just as guilty of murder as the other.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Well thank fully I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about your horrible language and malicious treatment of others.

No you were talking about that. You just strain at the language gnat and swallow the camel. Letting the message totally blow by you.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Well then I'll repeat what some Christian told me. Hey Jesus! Yeah, I'm a demon and I'm going to hell, I murdered my child by not teaching him to use bad words in a bad way against people, yeah yeah, I know, I'm horrible.

And he'll tell you no it was your own foolishness overlooking the message based on the outside of the vessel that brought it to you. You can't physically be a demon. You can be a slave to one. I could be speaking to the demon that has you hostage. As far as going to hell, yes, every man alive is, without Jesus Christ.

WiseSheep, I read through this letter you posted. I have two questions.

First, what precisely was wrong with Steve Kreins' ministry that caused all those people to be lost? It couldn't be because he didn't tell them they were lost.

God kills all those people by His Will alone. He can choose not to by His Will alone. Your denial of the omnipotence of God portrays him as one who is not Good. These are inherent problems with the concept of God that you do not understand. When you understand, you will be free.

Second, why should I allow myself to be motivated by violent images, or the violent images in the testimony of others when I know that these are ubiquitous brainwashing techniques? Salvation cannot be by brainwashing or be brainwashing alone. It must have substance, of which you offer none, because there is none. Salvation is fantasy.

Not one who drags you to rituals.

I was not dragged by Satan to church, bible studies, and karate. I went willingly in the company of others and we all believed we went with Christ. We bathed in the Light of the Lord together, singing and praising His Name, sharing our testimony of His Work in our daily lives. It seemed so wonderful, but ugh, it's all so silly now!

Not the one who heaps burdens on your shoulders and doesn't bother to lift a finger.

I did not leave the church because of burdens. I left because of conflicts of fact between what I believed and what I saw in the real world.

I gained real knowledge that I could corroborate. I could not corroborate Scripture, I had to have faith in it. And by asking for faith, it begs to be doubted. You dare not doubt out of fear of being destroyed. It is the fear that controls you and sustains the brainwashing.

Yes you did many works in his name, but he never knew you and you never knew him.

What works did I do? Ask your Christ for my Name. If He is real, he knew me and knows me still. I know that you know nothing.

Originally posted by Columbus
First, what precisely was wrong with Steve Kreins' ministry that caused all those people to be lost? It couldn't be because he didn't tell them they were lost.

Having someone recite a simple prayer, slapping them over the head with a bible, and sending them on their merry way deceiving them into believing they are saved. Without them even understanding the magnitude of what they are being saved from.

You can't be saved from something you don't come to the knowledge of. I'll put you in the spotlight and use you as an example.

You are trying to con me into thinking Eve was innocent. It is natural for a man to justify everything as righteous. What goes against our grain is to admit we are wrong, at fault, needing forgiveness, at GOD's mercy. As it is written, there is a way that seems right to man, but the end there of is death.

Originally posted by Columbus
God kills all those people by His Will alone.

To set one thing straight. He's not killing them. They will never die. Burn forever alive. It's by our will we deny him. Deceiving ourselves.

Originally posted by Columbus
He can choose not to by His Will alone.

It's our will that sends us there.

You have to understand that his word is truth. He is truth. He cannot lie. When he says something, whether at the formation of the earth or now. It will come to pass. Truth can't go against itself.

He cannot choose not to at this point, because that would make truth a lie. It can't happen. The ball is set in motion and we have a choice.

Originally posted by Columbus
I could not corroborate Scripture, I had to have faith in it. And by asking for faith, it begs to be doubted. You dare not doubt out of fear of being destroyed.

I've doubted and questioned and have yet to find fault. You have just stated yourself in a sense that you didn't have faith.

Question everything in his word. You'll get your answer. You'll see it's truth, but if you despise the truth, it'll flee from you.

There are brilliant minds working overtime twisting his word attempting to prove it a lie. They are hard to back in a corner at times, but it is possible, because they have no mind in comparison to the mind that created them.

Originally posted by Columbus
What works did I do? Ask your Christ for my Name. If He is real, he knew me and knows me still. I know that you know nothing.

Ahh, a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. No sign will they get.

You tested him and he didn't come through for you. Why should he? What's in it for him?

He died for you, gave you a chance at accepting eternal life and you seek a sign?



Have you ever had someone you thought was your friend, but you continually had to prove yourself to them. Time and time again. Then come to find out, they really didn't give a damn anyway?

How does the LORD feel about those who chase after signs and wonders?

If they get a sign it's from satan.

I'm sure there are some around here that can tickle your fantasy by dispatching a demon to you, fetching your name and bringing it back to them. What fun is in that?

You talk a lot but say little.

You are trying to con me into thinking Eve was innocent.

In a case of Fraud (which is what Applegate is), the guilty party is The Serpent, not Eve. I've added that to my signature to remind you. Nothing you say makes Eve guilty of anything but being tricked. Sure, she could have apologized to God for disobeying him and eating his fruit, and God should have forgiven here just like that as any decent person would, like me. But no, you need some complex explanation to justify Salvation. Without your nonsenical contradictory explanation, there is simply no need for Salvation. That's your problem.

It is natural for a man to justify everything as righteous.

This is philosophy, which you don't seem to know anything about. You, WiseSheep, right now, are convinced, by yourself, that you are righteous.

What goes against our grain is to admit we are wrong, at fault, needing forgiveness, at GOD's mercy.

I'll give you the first two, but forgiveness must come directly from the party that was hurt, not some abstract third party that you ascribe all hurt to. And when you say mercy, you imply punishment. No one should ever apologize based on punishment, but based on legitimate feelings, towards the person you hurt, not God. Now in the case of Applegate, you can say God is the victim and the direct party hurt, but in general God is not.

The very fact that God says "You Shall Die" is a threat, not a warning, since an omnipotent God can prevent anything, but in this case not only chooses not to, but causes directly. Not Good.

(edit)One more thing, an omniscient God wouild have known what was happening in real time and would have reacted to it. God is complicit as a witness who did not act. Good Samaritan Law?(/edit)

As it is written, there is a way that seems right to man, but the end there of is death.

Death is always at the end. That is how death is defined. Only through your brainwashing and contradictory definitions of death have you become confused into thinking death has no sting. It is only when death has no sting that people are able to kill and commit suicide.

I devote myself specifically to you, WiseSheep. I am your Personal Jesus. Either indirectly or directly, your cause leads to real death and suffering, regardless of what you believe death to be.


[edit on 15-4-2007 by Columbus]

Burn forever alive.

Your sickness is severe. Ah how wonderful it must be to want to constantly be with someone who burns people alive for pleasure.

It's our will that sends us there.

I ask God not to send me to Hell, he says "YOU ARE LOST, I NEVER KNEW YOU." He sends us to Hell. It is not our will.

You'll see it's truth, but if you despise the truth, it'll flee from you.

You have taken the definition of truth as anything God says, but that is not the correct meaning of truth. It is you who is deceived.

I am not trying to prove God a liar. I am trying to demonstrate that your beliefs are contradictory based on changing the meaning of words through brainwashing.

No sign will they get.

I do not seek a sign. I know you. I know Christ. There is no sign in this knowledge. What is my name?

You tested him and he didn't come through for you. Why should he? What's in it for him?

You are wrong. I didn't test him. You should not need to speculate about my personal life.

I told you to ask your friend and my friend Christ what I did. What is my name? If Christ is your friend, why would a demon talk to you? How do you know it hasn't been a demon talking to you along pretending to be Christ. You have NO certainty at all.

He died for you, gave you a chance at accepting eternal life and you seek a sign?

I did not seek a sign. I realized that there is no need for Salvation. I realized that God cannot understand death no matter what he does because he is incapable of fearing it. I came to realize that fear is the tool to crack open your mind and program you to do anything. Christianity is based entirely on fear and is nothing but a system of control. You are an agent of control. You do not act in your true nature. You may kill me, others, or yourself because of your malformed perception of death.

I don't want that to happen.

Originally posted by Columbus
You talk a lot but say little.

You are trying to con me into thinking Eve was innocent.

In a case of Fraud (which is what Applegate is), the guilty party is The Serpent, not Eve. I've added that to my signature to remind you. Nothing you say makes Eve guilty of anything but being tricked. Sure, she could have apologized to God for disobeying him and eating his fruit, and God should have forgiven here just like that as any decent person would, like me. But no, you need some complex explanation to justify Salvation. Without your nonsenical contradictory explanation, there is simply no need for Salvation. That's your problem.

If I con you into signing over to me something that you were given, does that make the effect any less final? The second she ate from that tree, she gained the knowledge of good and evil. No matter what trickery was envolved the effect was still the same.

The same spirit is in all of us. Rebellion. Test it. If someone tells you not to do something. The first thing you find your flesh telling you is "do it. do it."

Set something in reach of a child. Tell him not to touch it. Leave the room and watch from around the corner.

Originally posted by Columbus

It is natural for a man to justify everything as righteous.

This is philosophy, which you don't seem to know anything about. You, WiseSheep, right now, are convinced, by yourself, that you are righteous.

I shouldn't have to even acknowledge that. You already know there is nothing righteous about me. There's nothing righteous about anyone else either. The generic response is "We're Human!"

Yep we are human, all have fallen short and all deserve hell too.

Originally posted by Columbus
I'll give you the first two, but forgiveness must come directly from the party that was hurt, not some abstract third party that you ascribe all hurt to.

Hallelujah! I'm so glad you brought that up! On earth the son of man has power to forgive sins! Entertaining isn't it? You can't write off a debt to one you don't have relation to, unless you are!

Matthew 9:5-6
5For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?

6But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Originally posted by Columbus
No one should ever apologize based on punishment, but based on legitimate feelings, towards the person you hurt, not God. Now in the case of Applegate, you can say God is the victim and the direct party hurt, but in general God is not.

Does a kid apologize based on legitimate feelings toward a parent, or based on what they might do after the fact that they have found out?

Originally posted by Columbus
I am your Personal Jesus.

The dead cannot be a personal "jesus". Because he's alive, the source of life itself.

Originally posted by Columbus

Burn forever alive.

Your sickness is severe. Ah how wonderful it must be to want to constantly be with someone who burns people alive for pleasure.

How wonderful it is to long to be with one who is righteous.

Originally posted by Columbus
I ask God not to send me to Hell, he says "YOU ARE LOST, I NEVER KNEW YOU." He sends us to Hell. It is not our will.

AND, directly go against the truth that has been spoken. Furthermore, how do you ask one who you refuse to acknowledge to not send you to a place that you refuse to acknowledge? Would it not be true, to label that as pure stupidity?

Originally posted by Columbus
You have taken the definition of truth as anything God says

Brilliance! Because it is.

Originally posted by Columbus
, but that is not the correct meaning of truth. It is you who is deceived.

Do tell.

Originally posted by Columbus
I am not trying to prove God a liar.

You really should. That would lead you to him.

Originally posted by Columbus
I do not seek a sign.

Sure you do, you wouldn't have asked. You'd fall at his feet if he'd call fire down from heaven in front of you. How useless is one who demands he who created him, to do such things. When he is a speck of sand on the ocean shore in comparison.

Originally posted by Columbus
I know you.

I don't doubt it. You know my name. You'll be glad when I'm gone, but what end is it to you?

Originally posted by Columbus
I realized that there is no need for Salvation.

You found a clean home, went and made seven friends, invited them to live with you. Come to find out they are more wicked than yourself.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
If I con you..., does that make the effect any less final? The second she ate from that tree, she gained the knowledge of good and evil. No matter what trickery was envolved the effect was still the same.

Good and Evil as religious concepts that don't exist in reality. Good literally is whatever is good for you, like chocolate, or getting new stuff, and evil is a pretty harsh expression generally reserved for really big crimes like mass murder, Enron-scale theft, and to justify wars.

As soon as there were two people in the world, it was immediately possible for Adam and Eve to do good or harm to each other regarding any interaction they might have.

If Adam stumbled on a rock and bumped into Eve and knocked her down, would he say sorry? Would he understand forgiveness? Would Eve feel pain and get angry? Would she understand apology? These are important questions that reveal actual truth.

Knowing anything does not prevent anything. You believe you are forgiven, yet you still have knowledge of good and evil so to speak. So the "effect", whatever that might be, you don't describe it, can clearly be undone.

But of course, you imply God cannot (omnipotent) or is unwilling (evil) to do so to save my life. If God is unwilling to save my life in spite of my devotion to Christ, what petty action could possible change his mind?

There is really no difference between me as I was and you now.

The same spirit is in all of us. Rebellion. Test it. If someone tells you not to do something. The first thing you find your flesh telling you is "do it. do it."

No, testing isn't about rebellion, it is the only real path to truth. You are confused about the definition of truth and think the search for truth is rebellion against God. It's not. I urge you to seek the true truth, not the counterfeit one you've been brainwashed with.

Truth is whatever conforms with reality, it is not God's Word. That is an unarguable fact. What is true if it is not in Scripture? Since 2+2 is not in Scripture, can it be true? We'll get nowhere unless we have a working definition here.

If your brother tells you that 2+2=5 and says this is The Truth and commands you not to test it or you will die, is 2+2=5 true? And if you take two stones and take two more stones and count them and find there are four, do you believe your brother and reject your eye, or reject your brother and accept your eye, or do you seek confirmation from an unbiased third party?

Set something in reach of a child. Tell him not to touch it. Leave the room and watch from around the corner.

You think that giving commands without explanation is sufficient and children should be blindly obedient. Your children must be either so ignorant or serious rebels. People need explanation, proof, not some naked authority telling them what's what. Naked authority breeds rebellion! Good authority does not, therefore God is not Good.

Yep we are human, all have fallen short and all deserve hell too.

We are not guilty of Eve being tricked into eating an apple. Fallen short implies some expectation, or marker. What is the value of this marker and what is the scale? And don't say Jesus without telling me where the half-Jesus marker is so I can draw up a scale saying how far short I am and how far I need to go.

Hallelujah! I'm so glad you brought that up! On earth the son of man has power to forgive sins! Entertaining isn't it? You can't write off a debt to one you don't have relation to, unless you are!

Only a victim can forgive sin and only a lender can forgive debt. God and Jesus aren't victims or lenders. Eve was innocent and that's all you had. Something broke in your head to react that way to what I said. I can't forgive you for not paying back your brother. Your brother has to forgive you and he won't unless you ask him, not me. Understand? It's so simple!


Quoting Scripture to support your belief is like quoting Eqyptian heirogyphs to support the reality of Eqyptian Gods. You don't believe in the Eqyptian creation myth do you? Don't quote Scripture to me. I know it back to front. It's nonsense.

Does a kid apologize based on legitimate feelings toward a parent, or based on what they might do after the fact that they have found out?

Far more importantly, do you forgive your child and leave him his own based on his fear of being whipped with the belt or because he understands how other people feel and respects just authority rather than cruel authority. Do you not steal from your neighbor because you are afraid he'll catch you or because you respect him as a decent guy? What kind of immoral scumbag are you?

God is a cruel authority who whips his children with the belt, throws them into Hellfire. He is not a just authority that explains anything or appeals to decency.

The dead cannot be a personal "jesus".

What do you mean dead? I'm alive. Spiritually? Please be clear what you mean, you are so confused about the meaning of death! I am actually here now and communicating truth to you. This is something that Jesus does not do. You know that Jesus doesn't really speak to you. I do.

I realize you think that this is what Satan or a demon would say, but what I say true and consistent with reality, while your belief in Jesus is inconsistent with reality. How can you tell whether these words come from a demon or not? It cannot be the brainwashing only. I offer you proof, but you refuse to even ask proof from your brainwashers because they TOLD YOU not to! And you quote me the verses where they tell you not to. Don't you see? Are you totally blind?

It is consistent with reality that brainwashers would convince you that anyone trying to undo the brainwashing is evil. Recognizing the brainwashing should be enough to throw off the shackles. Do not reinforce the brainwashing, fight it.

How wonderful it is to long to be with one who is righteous.

AND BURNS PEOPLE ALIVE? What's so righteous about THAT?

Furthermore, how do you ask one who you refuse to acknowledge to not send you to a place that you refuse to acknowledge? Would it not be true, to label that as pure stupidity?

In the past I did believe and said the same prayers you said. I understood the violence of eternity in hellfire. That was all I needed. So now that I do not believe, since God can not take away what he giveth, you claim I never was. I was exactly as you are now. You even recite my own words back to me. The delusion is strong in you.

I still don't understand what Steve Kreins did wrong? He didn't explain the magnitude of Hell? He didn't explain how bad it would hurt when daddy hits your ass with the belt? Idiotic.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
That would lead you to him.

How can I try prove that someone who does not exist is doing anything, let alone lying? It's impossible.

Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by Columbus
I do not seek a sign.

Sure you do, you wouldn't have asked.

It only proves that you and I had imaginary friends that we thought were the same person. Sorry you can't see that. You're blind.

You'd fall at his feet if he'd call fire down from heaven in front of you.

I wouldn't just believe I was looking at a God. That'd be foolish. You're not a fool are you? If you knew my name, I'd be impressed, but I'd still expect a little more than hacking into ATS.

I don't doubt it. You know my name. You'll be glad when I'm gone, but what end is it to you?

I am not certain of your name, but I feel like I know you in real life because all of you recite the same bull over and over again because you can't think for yourselves when you are brainwashed.

I won't be glad when you're gone. I'll be sad. You are so much like many Christians I've known before who got caught up in their confusion and ran away to reinforce their brainwashing. I don't want that to happen.

You found a clean home, went and made seven friends, invited them to live with you. Come to find out they are more wicked than yourself.

I owned my own home before I knew Christ. My friends were from highschool and college when they brought me into fellowship with their church at my behest. I met others there in different groups and eventually joined some bible studies, went on some retreats, and I joined a karate club. In each place I met different people, quite a lot in total, and there were a few people who were at most of them. I don't see any of these people as being wicked, though you say this without knowing them.

I experienced the Mind on Fire that I eventually read Blaise Pascal experienced. It's called a psychotic break. You've had one. It occurs as the result of brainwashing. Have you learned about brainwashing yet?

Originally posted by WiseSheep

The accuser of the brethren. Yes.

I thought it was the "Sisteren"? That is, according to Adam.

If you had eyes to see, You'd see my motive is pure. As does anyone who can see.

I have learned to blindly type through touch alone and I have a brail screen. Amazing huh? I don't need eyes to see your "purity". (sarcasm)

Without coming to the knowledge and understanding that you are condemned already. You can't accept salvation.

If I went out of my way to please you and keep you happy just as you are, a murderer and bound for hell. What good would I do you?

I just finished laying on my child's legs while he fell asleep watching his favorite cartoons. He's so beautiful. His Daddy is terminally ill and I have sacrificed my life and my talents (which are abundant) to take care of him and his Momma.

If you are parading around righteous in your own eyes. When in the eyes of GOD you are a dead wretched filthy heap of no good sin filled flesh.

Ahhem. "I have not attacked anyone on these message boards".

You need to be hit with powerful words to cut you down to size, so you can look up and see him. If you have eyes to see him.

Words don't impress me... Love does, kindness, and sincerity does, unfortunately, or fortunately, you currently are unaware that you lack excercising any of those.

Yes we were talking about Columbus. Planting seeds in one that could destroy their possibility at life itself is murdering them. Why does mentioning blowing someone's head off offend you? One would be just as guilty of murder as the other.

It's not the mention of blowing someone's head off, it's the implication that Columbus has blown someone's head off. I find that hard to believe, unless he is a fugitive. I could be wrong, correct me Columbus, are you? By the way, how would you ever know if he has or hasn't? You don't appear to be long time friends, nor acquaintances who are familiar with each other's personal lives... except for that fact that we're all going to hell...

No you were talking about that.

Well thank you for telling me what I think now. Not only are you in Jesus, but you are in my head too Now when you start telling people that you can read their thoughts you've really become delusional. I don't lie and what I am telling you is the truth. What I meant is what I meant.

You just strain at the language gnat and swallow the camel. Letting the message totally blow by you.

Camel, like a cigarette? A girl's camel? Or an actual camel? This is getting more and more interesting. All these animal analogies. You should listen to the frog of truth and begin repeating its ribbets, then the butterfly of hope will set you free as you fly off to the golden paradise.

I could be speaking to the demon that has you hostage. As far as going to hell, yes, every man alive is, without Jesus Christ.

Or you could simply just be the demon speaking... but I'm not that harsh. I know you're a good person.

Enjoying the conversations, thanks WiseSheep

[edit on 15-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
You don't appear to be long time friends, nor acquaintances who are familiar with each other's personal lives...

I remember staying up all night with a Christian friend one time. We had a debate a lot like this. We made some progress because we were friends for years and I had that on my side, but it still takes a lot out of me. He kept accusing me of being a liar and pretending to be a Christian I kept asking him to prove it, or better explain why I would do that for years, even when he wasn't around.

I used to post on Beliefnet a lot a few years ago. Every Christian says the same things over and over again and it can be so tedious to refute the same claims over and over again. When you think you've clarified a subject, a while later, they'll be back on it like you made no progress. And every single one needs personal attention. That is where the Depeche Mode song "Personal Jesus" comes from. I am your Personal Jesus, a real person you can talk to and trust to tell you the truth.

Jesus is a silence in your life when you are hurting. I know this, but I didn't leave when I was hurting. When I was hurting I prayed hard and stayed with my faith. I left the church when I was strong in my faith, I had to be because everyone turned on me. I am sure WiseSheep is hurting and that is the reason behind beating on his faith here. There are people that need to think your Christian to get their support. That's sick.

Christians always run back to the brainwashing when they get cornered in an argument (shakey) because they think it's safe. It's so hard to get them to think for themselves again without looking it up in that damned Scripture hearsay.

It is extremely tiring to undo brainwashing. After you've had years to grow into Christ and train yourself with all the arguments, apologies, that's a lot of work to undo and it won't be undone today I'm afraid. I have plans the next few days and probably won't be back here til Wednesday.

This is the most I've posted on ATS/BTS since I registered and I know it's too much.

I have been to a lot of churches and somehow there belief in only this christian belief was saved kill it for me. The fact that most of the people heared what the preacher said more than read what was written the word of god. Its not a easy path to follow God with out a church. But I think with this some of us get a better understand of God's world because of reading the bible so much and experencing God life. I have always wanted a church path some if not most of the beliefs have wrong beliefs in them. Jesus is God,There is no hell(jahvva), follow us or your going to hell. Thats all crap the believe in God and Jesus only is what saves you. But we have to have faith and works. (faith with outs means nothing).

Originally posted by Columbus

I remember staying up all night with a Christian friend one time. We had a debate a lot like this. We made some progress because we were friends for years and I had that on my side, but it still takes a lot out of me. He kept accusing me of being a liar and pretending to be a Christian I kept asking him to prove it, or better explain why I would do that for years, even when he wasn't around.

You seem to be a very hurt, confused, and lost individual. Was you friend correct or were you a Christian?

I think this thread has served its purpose and shown why all those who Wroship Christ are also egostical mad men.

Now we have Christians saying that Jesus wasn't God, and we have Christians saying that Jesus was God.

You're divided amongst your selves, yet you claim purity and salvation, every single one of you. If you cannot see what you are doing to your selves and the planet, then quite literally, God forbids you the awareness of Existence.

If you lack perception to see the future of this planet and the direction it would be heading in if every one tried to cling to religion, then again, God forbids you awareness of Existence.

The belief in God is simply Satanical abeyance. The definition and thus belief of God only holds under the definition and belief of Satan, and Satan under the definition and belief of God. So ask your self who you really worship, and then ask if you need to worship an outside diety at all? Isn't loving one another the way you love God, suffice?

Perhaps if we replaced God with love for each other then we wouldn't be having the wars and religious condemnations that we see all around us today. Jesus is not my savior, all of you are: We are our saviors and we will be the reason for the planet's success or failure as a whole species working collectively, whether mutually or not. Most likely not working together mutually will be our failure. A divison of religions, Gods, and power is the number one cause today. See us as a people together, not a people divided, not as sinners requiring salvation, not as potential poselytes, but as a blooming civilization becoming aware of its cosmic perfection, a new start to build a world on the foundation of a love shared by the all inhabiting species of the Earth.

We really can't keep doing this to each other you guys, we can't

[edit on 17-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
I think this thread has served its purpose and shown why all those who Wroship Christ are also egostical mad men.

Even if that were 100% true. In some cases probably is. The cold reality of the thing is, without Jesus Christ, you are dead in your sins. To use the way one acts as an excuse to turn people away from him is senseless.

It'd be like wearing diving equipment but choosing to drown just because you are offended by the other's attitude who are breathing fine, in the same water with you.

That analogy really doesn't quite fit because those who are dead don't have a clue they aren't as alive as anyone else, let alone drowning.

While unbelievers aren't wearing him. He's literally that close to them, yet they refuse him and make every excuse in the book.

Originally posted by WiseSheep

equipment but choosing to drown just because you are offended by the other's attitude who are breathing fine, in the same water with you.

It would be like watching a world full of religious extremists blow themselves up over Gods and fight for invisible unicorn fairies in the sky and golden paradises full of virgins and dead family members that they won't recognize any way . It doesn't come close to diving and drowning because you don't like someone's behavior... ? It's like swimming in the same water with people who are killing each other.

It's like swimming in water with an oxygen tank next to two guys who are swimming with gasoline fumes as their source of breath... you keep telling them you're just fine and that the air they are breathing is delusional, polluted, and poisonous and it's going to end up killing them, but they insist that you breathe this air with them. You offer your air, they take a breath and feel different, but it's not what they want, so you watch helplessly as they fry their brains and contaminate as many around them as possible.

It's like someone with a terminal blood disease stabs themself and runs around with the bloody knife in their hand claiming that every one else needs to be stabbed the same way by the same knife that they have been stabbed by, if not they won't contract the disease properly. And we're like, wait, but we don't want a disease! We don't want to be sinners and repenters, or in need of salvation.

It's like some crazed lunatic comes and calls him self the son of God, some Man who is in the skies watching Humanity. Some "Father" who created the rainbow, because we all know the spectrum of light didn't Exist before the flood He then calls him self the Lord and tells every one that they need to worship him to be saved. Someone with an ounce of intelligence kills him because they see he is going to ruin the world, and then the crazed followers create a religion out of it and want every one else who doesn't follow these delusional illogical guidelines, to burn in hell for eternity... wait, that's the actual story

[edit on 17-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

To say the belief in God is Satanical abeyance. Is stupid and blind saying. We worship God not evil and there is not satanical when believeing God. Yes satan followers are out there. But to say Believeing in God is Satanical abeyance just wrong. Trust me to say coming from a true believer, there is no satan worship here. Nor is following God a satan or evil thing.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

It would be like watching a world full of religious extremists blow themselves up over Gods and fight for invisible unicorn fairies in the sky and golden paradises full of virgins and dead family members that they won't recognize any way

.

You seem to be confusing the things of Satan with the things of God.
How is it that you cannot see what is really happening in the world?

OR can you?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
You seem to be a very hurt, confused, and lost individual. Was you friend correct or were you a Christian?

I was as much a Christian as WiseSheep is and behaved exactly like like him.

I do not feel hurt by my friends beyond the fact that they left me feeling I was a traitor. They, like WiseSheep are decent people who have been confused by intense long-term brainwashing.

The brainwashing itself is a violation. A terrible violence equivalent to rape. This is why many atheists hate Christians so much It is only because I am fully aware of it, what happened, and have dealt with it completely that I am a well adjusted person today. When I first left the church 8 years ago I was very angry and hurt.

Today I am here only for WiseSheep. My ATS points prove I am not a seriously active member.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
...without Jesus Christ, you are dead in your sins.

I'm disappointed you didn't reply to me.

To use the way one acts as an excuse to turn people away from him is senseless.

If only it were just one.

...those who are dead don't have a clue they aren't as alive as anyone else, let alone drowning.

It would help if those who think they are "alive" examined the path that led them to being "alive".

...they refuse him and make every excuse in the book.

What about those that didn't refuse him?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
You seem to be confusing the things of Satan with the things of God.
How is it that you cannot see what is really happening in the world?
OR can you?

The things of God are only the things of Satan. Without Satan you have no Good, great God, and without God you have no high and mighty evil Satan to damn people with. Now where would that lead us? Self responsibility.

The world is currently irresponsible and they blame every thing on God and Satan... quite frankly it's disgusting me to the core.

Yes I can see it. You, with the veil of holy books, the worship of men and Gods pulled over your eyes, can't even see Nothing.

The belief in God is the birth of Satan, the birth of Satan is the apparition of Satanism, but truly, all religions that incorporate Satan in to their religion as the default bad guy, whom all the blame must be placed upon for any bad things happening, worship Satan without even seeing it.

To tell you to your face, just like this, does no good. If you didn't believe in the color orange and I waved an orange flag in front of your face and said "look, orange!", you'd deny it. This is what religion does

[edit on 18-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]