Jesus Was An Egotistical Mad Man

Originally posted by WiseSheep
What comes from me means nothing, unless it comes from him.

Well then. Jesus is a good farmer, he separates the goats from the sheep, and Jesus has a very high i.q.: He knows not to give his pearls to pigs. That's what Jesus says, and what you say means nothing to me, nor is Jesus here to refute it, and nor is "He" coming back. Your voice and your thoughts are worthless and wasted by your own testimony.

Thank you for making the work so easy for me.

P.s. Tell Job We're Perfect, as is Existence.

Feel free to reply, although I won't respond. Your words mean absolutely Nothing to me, because that is what you have accepted. If only you knew that Nothing cannot be used as a scapegoat because it does not Exist, and that all of your words create your very experience and reactions of things around you

[edit on 13-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by Columbus

Originally posted by WiseSheep
If we could ship this bunch of atheists here in the US over there by the plane loads, and dump them out over that continent. They'd be cured of their problem in less than a couple weeks.

You are a vicious one. And you think you are Good? You are totally delusional and violent.

There's nothing vicious about that statement. No there's nothing good about me or anyone else for that matter. It would be for your own well being.

I wouldn't have made the statement blindly. I've spent time there myself. Right at a couple years actually.

This nation as a whole is blind as a bat to reality. A fantasy world built upon nothing, backed by nothing. That could shatter at an instant. Most here would go suicidal if they lost their luxuries and had to live primitively for a day.

Originally posted by Columbus
WiseSheep, let me help you out of the ditch.

If you could see.

Originally posted by Columbus
You are really sick WiseSheep. Take a break from the church for a few weeks and you will recover.

I have nothing to do with the religious establishment. Remind me in ten thousand years how sick I am.

Last said Jesus claim to be God.

Thats not true, no where in the bible does it say Jesus said I am God. In fact he said different. He said I am the Son of God.

When Jesus die on the cross, Jesus said My god my god why have you (god in heaven) forsaken me (Jesus on earth). Many times in the Bible Jesus is seen calling God his own father. The son can not be the son if he is the father.

Revelations 4-5 God sits on a throne holding the scroll of seven seals in his right hand. (God can not sit nor hold a scroll in his right hand if he didnt have a body. Jesus comes and takes the scroll out of God hands. Showing God and Jesus are SOMEWHAT SEPRATE.

Many times in the bible jesus is seen praying to God not talking to himself. He calls God his own father.

If you read John chapter 6 25-59 parts of the scripure will say this
(FOR I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN NOT TO DO MY OWN WILL BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO HATH SENT ME, AND THIS IS THE WILL OF HIM WHO HAS SENT ME, THAT OF ALL THAT HE HATH GIVIN ME I SHALL LOSE NOTHING. BUT RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY.

This scripure shows that Jesus comes in the power of God, that God has sent him. That jesus came to do God's will not his own.

I say this again the son cannot be the son if he is the father, especialy when they clain that God is his own God.

[Thats not true, no where in the bible does it say Jesus said I am God. In fact he said different. He said I am the Son of God.

That's what I said... I even presented scripture to prove it.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
If you could see.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is considered insane,... but how come he can walk around without stumbling and possesses knowledge of the invisible world?

WiseSheep, pretending that our positions are reversed does not make it so.

I strongly urge you to acknowledge that an immortal entity cannot die on a cross and Eve is innocent in that case of fraud regarding the apple, leaving no need for salvation.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
There's nothing vicious about that statement.

Then why is it that if I go to Africa I will suddenly convert back to Christianity when I already know all its wicked ways? The heat of the sun?

Originally posted by WiseSheep
No there's nothing good about me or anyone else for that matter.

Yes, I know, the old "there is only one who is good" bull. In this you only absolve yourself of the obligation in our society of behaving morally (yet Christians claim the moral highground).

Originally posted by WiseSheep
This nation as a whole is blind as a bat to reality. A fantasy world built upon nothing, backed by nothing. That could shatter at an instant. Most here would go suicidal if they lost their luxuries and had to live primitively for a day.

You are actually referring here to Christianity, this is the fantasy world that most people in America subscribe to, the very thing you want me to convert back to.

Originally posted by slymattb
Last said Jesus claim to be God.

Thats not true, no where in the bible does it say Jesus said I am God. In fact he said different. He said I am the Son of God.

When Jesus die on the cross, Jesus said My god my god why have you (god in heaven) forsaken me (Jesus on earth). Many times in the Bible Jesus is seen calling God his own father. The son can not be the son if he is the father.

Revelations 4-5 God sits on a throne holding the scroll of seven seals in his right hand. (God can not sit nor hold a scroll in his right hand if he didnt have a body. Jesus comes and takes the scroll out of God hands. Showing God and Jesus are SOMEWHAT SEPRATE.

Many times in the bible jesus is seen praying to God not talking to himself. He calls God his own father.

If you read John chapter 6 25-59 parts of the scripure will say this
(FOR I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN NOT TO DO MY OWN WILL BUT THE WILL OF HIM WHO HATH SENT ME, AND THIS IS THE WILL OF HIM WHO HAS SENT ME, THAT OF ALL THAT HE HATH GIVIN ME I SHALL LOSE NOTHING. BUT RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY.

This scripure shows that Jesus comes in the power of God, that God has sent him. That jesus came to do God's will not his own.

I say this again the son cannot be the son if he is the father, especialy when they clain that God is his own God.

Ok... This is just getting plain rediculous IMO.

We should open up a new thread as to the dissertations of 'what Christ said, and unto his followers?

And also the interpretations from the beginning to now; including interpretations/feelings accossed to said topic?

So as to stay true to a particular topic?

I'm am only repeating what Christians on this message board have told me, and that is "Jesus was God incarnate".

Now I know better, but for the sake of truth I am going to use what I have been told by so called "Christians" (those who wish to separate themselves from the rest of humanity through their holy worship and labels) so that they can see what other Christians have to say about it

Originally posted by Columbus
I strongly urge you to acknowledge that an immortal entity cannot die on a cross and Eve is innocent in that case of fraud regarding the apple, leaving no need for salvation.

I'll also acknowledge that we will not die either. As satan told Eve in the garden "you will not surely die." The death was a spiritual death. Separation from GOD.

She's not dead now. Her body is asleep, but she's very much alive, in one of two places. Heaven or Hell. The same as everyone else since Adam, who has fallen asleep, until the great day.


GOD sacrificed the lamb, the vessel in which he came, Jesus Christ, and raised it again, incorruptible. The first fruits. We are the second. On the third day we will be raised. Some to eternal life, some to shame and eternal contempt.

Originally posted by Columbus
Then why is it that if I go to Africa I will suddenly convert back to Christianity when I already know all its wicked ways? The heat of the sun?

You can't convert "back to" something you have never known. If you knew him, you wouldn't have left him. He certainly won't leave you. You may have known a ritual, or acted a part, but you didn't know him. Seek him and you'll find him. Hear his voice, open and he'll come in.

It's one place on earth, which has the capability of placing the fear of GOD in you.

Originally posted by Columbus
You are actually referring here to Christianity, this is the fantasy world that most people in America subscribe to, the very thing you want me to convert back to.

No I referred to exactly what I said. This country is built on nothing. It once was built on something, but it's foundation has been subtly removed from underneath it. Something having no support and backed by nothing, takes nothing to fall.

Let's look at what people put their faith in. You think putting one's faith in the creator who is unseen and no man has seen is stupidity. I'll show you stupidity.

People who put their faith in money, and material. Both of which will fail them.

Who owns your house? Do you rent it? You don't own it, the land lord does. Do you make payments on it? You don't own it, the bank does. Do you own the piece of paper that says it's yours? Stop paying taxes on it and see how long you say on it.

Now in the above, you can insert land, car, business or whatever in place of house.

Let's look at money. Our currency was once backed by metal, now nothing. The linen paper in your pocket is worth what they say it is while they say it is. It's cloth. Nothing more. Most all the coin's scrap metal price compared to their face value is only a fraction.

You can go literally from a millionaire to nothing in a days time, homeless, starving to death. That situation will give those their last chance to fear he who is unseen.


Not just the US but all the earth is now in this situation. Run by one head, satan taking as many with him as he can.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
I'll also acknowledge that we will not die either. As satan told Eve in the garden "you will not surely die." The death was a spiritual death. Separation from GOD.

So in other words, since he didn't die the First Death on the Cross because He is immortal, Jesus must therefore have died the Second Death on the Cross. And since He was God, he became Separate from Himself.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
She's not dead now.

You neglect to acknowledge the fact that she is innocent, therefore there is no need of salvation.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
GOD sacrificed the lamb, the vessel in which he came, Jesus Christ, and raised it again, incorruptible.

Exactly my point. He put on a human skin to walk amongst us, killed IT, not himself, because he is immortal. An immortal can not experience or understand the finiteness of death. A death on the cross is but an instantaneous fraction of a moment with infinity preceding and following it to an immortal. To a mortal, death is the end, the ultimate climax. There is no way that pretending to die on the Cross brings God and Man closer. (edit)I forgot to point out that this is actually insulting.(edit)

Originally posted by WiseSheep
You can't convert "back to" something you have never known. If you knew him, you wouldn't have left him.

I have heard this so many times from so many Christians, I am sure I know you personally. You do not know Him. You only have an imaginary friend. When you realize this and your friends claim you never knew Him, you will finally understand the Betrayal of Christianity.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Run by one head, satan taking as many with him as he can.

And your proof of this is what? The Bible?

Just because you don't understand anything about philosophy, doesn't mean no one else does either. The uncertainty of reality is pervasive. Your attempt to create certainty through a moldy myth is just pretend. Jesus doesn't provide certainty, but an illusion of it. And you attack those who do not share in your fantasy. I came to my senses and realized that Jesus is a fantasy. I knew Him once exactly as you do now.

Eventually, you will be like me. Face it.

Columbus

[edit on 14-4-2007 by Columbus]

Originally posted by Columbus
So in other words, since he didn't die the First Death on the Cross because He is immortal, Jesus must therefore have died the Second Death on the Cross. And since He was God, he became Separate from Himself.

The father separated himself from the son, the son felt our sins, the son tasted death. The father raised him up. The father and son are one. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Originally posted by Columbus
You neglect to acknowledge the fact that she is innocent, therefore there is no need of salvation.

You will have a very rude awakening one day. There's no justifying what she did. "The snake made me do it" won't cut it.

Originally posted by Columbus
Exactly my point. He put on a human skin to walk amongst us, killed IT, not himself, because he is immortal.

Didn't kill "it". He gave up his spirit. He birthed the son. The word, he made flesh and dwelt among us. The same that created. That made that which is invisible, visible.

Originally posted by Columbus
An immortal can not experience or understand the finiteness of death.

He'll prove you wrong. For your sake, seek him, and pray it's this side of eternity.

Originally posted by Columbus
A death on the cross is but an instantaneous fraction of a moment with infinity preceding and following it to an immortal.

And you have hung on how many crosses?

Originally posted by Columbus
There is no way that pretending to die on the Cross brings God and Man closer. (edit)I forgot to point out that this is actually insulting.(edit)

Didn't have anything to do with bringing anything "closer". He paid our debt. That's what it has to do with. Had the devils known they crucified HIM and sealed the lid of their eternal coffin. They'd have never done it.

Whether we faith in what he did and become closer to him, well that's our free will. To turn it down would be the absolute stupidest, most foolish thing any man could do. Especially after coming to the knowledge and understanding of the truth.

Hebrews 10:26-29
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Originally posted by Columbus
I have heard this so many times from so many Christians ...

That's how many times you have slapped the truth in the face then.

What effect will it have on your sanity, being burned and tormented by demons eternally in a lake of fire? Replaying every instance that you have been confronted with the truth. In your mind. Knowing that you had the chance at salvation, but were dumb enough to deny it?

How will that feel?

Originally posted by Columbus
You only have an imaginary friend.

Where's this crowd that thinks your imagination creates reality when you need em?

On a serious note. That doesn't the least bit shake me. Why? Because he's alive and I'm forgiven. He's in me and I'm in him. He's given me all the proof I need.

As I said before, seek him and you'll find him. He's called and chosen some just as wretched as yourself. Take Saul of Tarsus for a fine example.

Originally posted by Columbus
And your proof of this is what? The Bible?

Well there's one Amen I can grant you.

Originally posted by Columbus
Jesus doesn't provide certainty, but an illusion of it.

He provides a certainty that nothing can break. Shake? Maybe, but not break.

Originally posted by Columbus
And you attack those who do not share in your fantasy.

On the other side of eternity people will see that we are not attacking. Don't lump some garbage like Rome and Hitler in the mix either. You know a tree by it's fruits.

I'm not attacking you or anyone else that I've argued with on this board. I'm taking my own time, profiting nothing, attempting to open peoples eyes to reality and what's about to happen to them if they don't snap out of the blind folds satan has on them.

Originally posted by Columbus
I came to my senses and realized that Jesus is a fantasy.

No you gave up on him, he didn't give up on you.

Originally posted by Columbus
I knew Him once exactly as you do now.

No you knew a fantasy. Not him.

Originally posted by Columbus
Face it.

... and every knee will bow.

Originally posted by WiseSheep

The father separated himself from the son

The sperm must always leave the body.

the son felt our sins, the son tasted death.

I wonder what death tastes like, did he describe it? Or are you just pushing this on us to make it sound more fancy.

The father raised him up. The father and son are one. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Do you smoke, Columbus? Or is he delusional and lying again? Trying to make himself feel better. Actually a little smoke might help you realize some things WiseSheep. They are one? I thought they were eternal, now which is it? You're confusing me. Are they both? They are divided, yet they are one, they die, yet they are eternal, they are merely one, yet they are eternal... hey, sounds like Existence. Cool story btw. It's fun to follow.

You will have a very rude awakening one day. There's no justifying what she did. "The snake made me do it" won't cut it.

Oh so what, a talking snake named lucifer asked her to eat some fruit and she enjoyed the taste of it, not only that, it gave her knowledge! This knowledge is what will ultimately cause the new awakening... when we realize we don't need clothes and we can all freeze to death etc.! (sarcasm on the last sentence) Get over it! The snake was once of a kind and is now obviously extinct, and women are still nefarious! (completely joking, women... completely joking... only relating to Biblical thkinking here... the male dominated Universe! Yeah, go Christians and Muslims! Stupid women!)

That made that which is invisible, visible.

IHeyyy, I've done that before! I think I'm catching on now, is this God guy with the giant right hand a magician?

He'll prove you wrong. For your sake, seek him, and pray it's this side of eternity.

Seriously...

And you have hung on how many crosses?

When I am hanging on to a moment I'll cross my fingers

Didn't have anything to do with bringing anything "closer". He paid our debt. That's what it has to do with. Had the devils known they crucified HIM and sealed the lid of their eternal coffin. They'd have never done it.

This story gets better and better, they should make a movie out of this, wait I think I've seen this before...

Whether we faith in what he did and become closer to him, well that's our free will... the absolute stupidest, most foolish thing any man could do... Especially after coming to the knowledge and understanding of the truth.

I'm never going to read this to my child, don't want to teach him words like that.

That's how many times you have slapped the truth in the face then.

He slapped people in the face?

What effect will it have on your sanity, being burned and tormented by demons eternally in a lake of fire? Replaying every instance that you have been confronted with the truth. In your mind. Knowing that you had the chance at salvation, but were dumb enough to deny it?

Where's this crowd that thinks your imagination creates reality when you need em?

Hey buddy, left here! It's true, look at you.

He's in me and I'm in him. He's given me all the proof I need.

Oh really, then what you say doesn't mean Nothing? If he's in you and you are in him, then what you two speak must hold water! Are you in him, in him? Isn't homosexuality against your religion? So, I guess all those contradictive things you've spoken, and the one you are speaking here, don't actually mean Nothing! Because you're in him and he's in you!

He's called and chosen some just as wretched as yourself.

Wow, harsh words, you shouldn't attack and judge people like that. Oh wait, Jesus called people swine... and worse. The man of salvation was an insultive megalomaniac, I see it rubs off... not attacking of course, just making observation of the above quote.

He provides a certainty that nothing can break. Shake? Maybe, but not break.

Yeah, certain damnation, certain oppression, certain ignorance of Existence, and certain separation from the rest of Humanity.

You know a tree by it's fruits.

Yeah, peach for peach, apple for apple, gotcha.

I'm not attacking you or anyone else that I've argued with on this board.

"He's called and chosen some just as wretched as yourself."

"... you're a demon..." (countless other threads)

No, you knew a fantasy.

Then at least we can all relate there.

... and every knee will bow.

:bnghd::bnghd::bnghd::bnghd:

All heil king Jesus! ... I said bow! ... fine eternal beatings for you, you worthless pigs! Now remember... I'm loving and kind to all... and free will is yours... to suffer in eternity for!

[edit on 15-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

I'm never going to read this to my child, don't want to teach him words like that.

In so doing you are murdering your child. You'll be sentenced accordingly.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

He's called and chosen some just as wretched as yourself.

Wow, harsh words, you shouldn't attack and judge people like that.

If you see a man blow another's brains out in public, would you not consider them wretched?

It would be better for one to go to hell on their own than to drag others with them. If so their blood will be on their hands.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
The father separated himself from the son, the son felt our sins, the son tasted death. The father raised him up. The father and son are one.

Split personality disorder. One problem here is that Jesus could not experience sin until after he was dead (separated), which is impossible.

There is also a huge problem here with the whole reasoning about disintegrating and reintegrating anything with an infinite being. The whole concept of God is a non-concept, like the last significant digit of pi.

So either the being of Jesus was a fraction equivalent to the last significant digit of pi, or he is fully equal to the entire universe.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
There's no justifying what she did. "The snake made me do it" won't cut it.

It will in any court in any civilized country in the world because of the universal principle of uncertainty. If you have any system which outputs two different results for the same input, one of them is in error, but how can you know which was correct? The snake was correct anyway, because God does not state first or second death, only your brainwashers do. There is only one death.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Didn't kill "it". He gave up his spirit.

Jesus physically died as humans do but as God cannot. What happened to the spirit? It became separate from God after he died? Sure, so now without the active brain, or sleeping in Hell he understands?

Originally posted by WiseSheep
He'll prove you wrong.

Not even God can prove an axiom wrong. God cannot prove a circle is a square and an immortal entity cannot die. Infiinity cannot fit in the finite. God cannot fit in a man. Axioms are definitions used to establish whether other things are wrong. God is undefined and therefore wrong.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
He paid our debt.

I don't owe any debt. Nor do you. It's just brainwashing. Eve was innocent.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
To turn it down would be the absolute stupidest, most foolish thing any man could do.

Pascal's Wager has been falsified. I would be simply pretending to believe in God because it is the safest course in spite of thousands of obvious fallacies.

Quoting from Scripture to defend your beliefs is like quoting from Eqyptian heiroglyphs to prove Eqyptian Gods were real. Scripture is pure falsehood.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Take Saul of Tarsus for a fine example.

Paul was the corruptor of the early church. He saw the growing movement as an opportunity for power and seized it.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
He provides a certainty that nothing can break.

You have no knowledge of philosophy. There is by definition, an axiom, no such thing as certainty outside of mathematics, as there is no such thing as the last significant digit of pi.

Since you offer no definitions and depend upon fluid words like death that have multiple ambiguous meanings, it is only you who does not understand how your ground is like quicksand and soon you will escape your delusion.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
On the other side of eternity people will see that we are not attacking.

By being brainwashed without your consent, you were attacked. The brainwashing programming compels you to attack. You also attack out of fear because your faith is very weak and shakeable. You depend on convincing others and the numbers of believers who join your side. YOU are on the wide road.

I know what I know and I do not depend on beliefs or the agreement of others. I know how I entered the church and how the brainwashing took over my thinking process. It is the same for all including you. I know how my mind became free again.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by Columbus]

Originally posted by WiseSheep
In so doing you are murdering your child. You'll be sentenced accordingly.

Ah, so not teaching my child to say words like stupid, demon, hell, ignorance etc. to any one who doesn't agree with his out look on life equates to me killing him You are a funny one.

If you see a man blow another's brains out in public, would you not consider them wretched?

Columbus, have you blown someone's brain out in public? Otherwise he's being delusional again.

It would be better for one to go to hell on their own than to drag others with them. If so their blood will be on their hands.

Not if they aren't bleeding. If someone dies of a heart attack and you drag them to hell then their is no blood on your hands lol, any way, this is really pointless as hell doesn't Exist, only in your demented, twisted, small, sick fear based reality that you enjoy imposing on to others.

Have a nice day

Originally posted by WiseSheep
No you knew a fantasy. Not him.

WiseSheep, I was in the church for many years and attended church services on Tuesday, Wednesday, and twice on Sundays sometimes.

I attended at one point three separate Bible Study groups and learned the Bible front to back over and again.

I was part of a Christian Karate club and managed to earn a belt I was proud of.

At no point during those years was I any different from any of my companions.

It was only AFTER I realized the truth that my friends, out of fear, accused me of pretending all those years of being their friend! How is it that this happened?

Most importantly, what is most probable? That I was an agent of The Serpent all those years?

And what about the brainwashing that I speak of? Have you investigated brainwashing technique and seen similarities in the church? Have you tested yourself?

I appeal to you because I see yourself ill as I was and I offer real help. I am your Personal Jesus as the song describes.

Columbus

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Ah, so not teaching my child to say words like stupid, demon, hell, ignorance etc. to any one who doesn't agree with his out look on life equates to me killing him

You are a funny one.

Leading your child away from the only source of eternal life is.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

If you see a man blow another's brains out in public, would you not consider them wretched?

Columbus, have you blown someone's brain out in public? Otherwise he's being delusional again.

If you had eyes enough to see what I really meant. All you see is the flesh. When you stand on Judgement Day before him, you will be right along side murderers. IF YOU DO NOT OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE THE TRUTH.

You teach LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. Then proceed to murder someone by turning them away from eternal life, and turning them to eternal shame and contempt. You kill them. Their blood is on your hands, if they die as a result of it.

Believe it or don't believe it. That doesn't make it any more or less real.

When you do stand before him, you will have no excuse such as "well nobody told me."

Originally posted by Columbus

Originally posted by WiseSheep
No you knew a fantasy. Not him.

WiseSheep, I was in the church for many years and attended church services on Tuesday, Wednesday, and twice on Sundays sometimes.

I attended at one point three separate Bible Study groups and learned the Bible front to back over and again.

I was part of a Christian Karate club and managed to earn a belt I was proud of.

At no point during those years was I any different from any of my companions.

Yes you did many works in his name, but he never knew you and you never knew him.

There will be many on judgement day that will question why they are being shuffled off into a lake of fire. Saying "LORD, LORD, have we not done mighty works in your name?" He'll say depart from me, I never knew you.

(mods forgive me for the massive quote, but this is powerful)

Dear Brother Ray,

I have been a pastor for 25 years. I always thought I was doing a reasonably good job. Kind of like the folks that tell you they consider themselves "good people." I had tried to preach, what I thought, was the whole counsel of God. I prayed, over the years, with many people to accept Jesus and make Him Lord of their lives.

My wife Judy and I moved to Ruidoso, New Mexico about six years ago to plant a church. Shortly after arriving I was convicted that something was horribly wrong with my ministry. I read the scriptures and prayed earnestly that God would show me what was wrong. The feeling continued to grow and I became depressed and moody. I asked Judy to pray for me and explained my problem. I didn't know if this was the Holy Spirit convicting or Satan attacking. She prayed that God would reveal the cause of my depression and make Himself clear as He revealed any problem with my ministry for Him.

That night I had the most terrifying, realistic, blood chilling nightmare any man has ever had. I am a Vietnam veteran and I know a little about nightmares. Nothing in my experience has ever come close, nor do I ever want it to, to the horror of that night!

I dreamed that it was judgment day and I was standing right next to the throne of God. I noticed that to my left and my right were pastors as far as I could see. I thought this was odd that the Lord would reserve this front row space for pastors only.

I looked out across a space of only a few yards and there were millions, maybe billions, of people, yet I could see each one of their eyes staring at me. As I studied this group I noticed that I knew many of them from times at the alter or ones who had sat under my teaching. I was pleased to see that they had made it to heaven, but confused because they didn't look happy. They looked very angry and hateful.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord say, "Away, I never knew you." I was suddenly frightened that what I was seeing was those who "thought" that they were saved. Then I saw all of them pointing a finger at each of us pastors and together, in one voice that shook my soul, "WE SAT IN YOUR CHURCH AND THOUGHT WE WERE SAVED. WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL US WE WERE LOST?"

Tears were pouring down my face and the faces of all of those pastors. I watched as one by one those people were cast into hell. One and then another, and another, and another......., until they were all gone. I died inside as each one screamed in agony and gnashed their teeth, cursing us as they went into the lake of fire.

Then I was looking into the face of Jesus and He said to me, "Is this the part where I'm suppose to say, ' Well done my good and faithful servant?" I woke up with a scream and my heart pounding and I was begging Jesus to forgive me.

I died a million deaths that night. Since that night I have done two things on a daily bases. I do everything I can to preach the law before grace in the hope that conviction of sin will bring a sinner to true salvation. The other thing that I do is pray for every person I have ever preached to asking God to repair any damage I have done. I also never believe anyone when they tell me they are saved. It is my duty to challenge them and search out the solidness of their salvation.

Your ministry and material has been a great blessing to me. I am learning to be more effective and confident as I teach others how to share their faith by using the Law. I have seen several people saved, who thought they were saved, as I have used The Way of The Master material to teach them evangelism.

I do want to hear those words, "Well done my good and faithful servant", and thanks to you and your team I have a better chance of hearing them. Thank you! I just wanted to let you know, some pastors are waking up to the truth. The desire of my heart is to please God. I pray that my days of being a man pleaser are over along with the nightmares. I also pray that God will use me to bring other pastors into the truth of the Gospel message so that they will not have to face the nightmare that I did.

Blessings,
Steve Kreins
First Church of God
Waco, Texas

Source

Originally posted by Columbus
Most importantly, what is most probable? That I was an agent of The Serpent all those years?

We all have been to some degree or another throughout our lives. He uses your ignorance.

Originally posted by Columbus
And what about the brainwashing that I speak of? Have you investigated brainwashing technique and seen similarities in the church? Have you tested yourself?

Yes I'm brainwashed by the blood that bought me.

Originally posted by Columbus
I appeal to you because I see yourself ill as I was and I offer real help. I am your Personal Jesus as the song describes.

Columbus

I appeal to you because I see yourself ill as I almost have been, due to the teaching and condemnation of man, rather than the teaching of Jesus Christ himself.

Seek him and you'll find him. HIM, not the fairy tale. Not one who drags you to rituals. Not the one who heaps burdens on your shoulders and doesn't bother to lift a finger.

The real HIM. The one who came to save you and not condemn you.

Every thing you just said is what you do, my friend.

And what you said about blowing someone's head off... well, we were talking about Columbus on that one! Go back and read, it's still there. That is unless we are just randomly popping from subject to subject, and using quoted text as distractions, that would be a fun game. Okay, I'm in

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Leading your child away from the only source of eternal life is.

Well thank fully I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about your horrible language and malicious treatment of others. Now it's making me use bad language just to describe the way that you are... that says something.

When you stand before him you'll have no excuse as, "well nobody told me"

Well then I'll repeat what some Christian told me. Hey Jesus! Yeah, I'm a demon and I'm going to hell, I murdered my child by not teaching him to use bad words in a bad way against people, yeah yeah, I know, I'm horrible. Any way, did Lucifer get those latest tickets to the game between Fairies and Cyclops? Oh, I can't wait for the penile torture chamber! I so deserve that one!

Anyway, why are you still talking WiseSheep, what you say means Nothing, remember? Even though you have Jesus in you and you in Jesus...

[edit on 15-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

No human on this planet is perfect. I think we all judge. People have set a horrible example for the most part, of what it is to be spiritual in general. I think that there are very few people who can actually represent their belief system for what it was meant to be. There is so much bitterness and hate, that it has become a self strengthining force. Myself...I respect everyone's beliefs, that does not mean that I respect those who believe it. I go on a personal basis. Just like the so called "races". No matter where people come from, it is the same race: the human race. Sure, there are different colors of skin, but there are also different colors of the hair and eyes also. I only have prejudice against people who think they are better than others, no matter what color of whatever they are. Very few people care enough. Who am I to set the standard of the beliefs of others. I think people need to realize that whatever religion they profess to be, that others see the religion based on how they represent it. If Jesus was a madman, it is because of what people have become, yet there are so many great people in the world. Take this site for example. There are many people who discuss so many subjects, yet there is a common bond: we all want the truth, no matter what the subject. Although I disagree with you, I respect your belief and take no offence. Although I think that it is ignorant for those who profess their faith in Christ, and say that if someone dosen't see it their way, then that person is going to Hell. To me, they are mad and cannot have true faith in anything but their own ego, so in this aspect, I could not agree more. I hope that your post makes people think about how their actions reflect on what they profess to believe. By the way, this is me after too much green tea: