Questions about Masonry: an open and honest forum

Thank you Stewart Lewis, your compliments are taken to heart.

As far as your petition goes, just be honest.
That's one of the main qualities that we look for.

In fact, I just helped with an investigation about two weeks ago and the gentleman we interviewed expressed concern about not having too much availability to attend very many meetings due to his schedule (he's a doctor I believe.)
We told him, that unless summoned, just to come whenever he can.
If he can only make it down once a month, than that will do just fine.

Remember, we value family and career first, the lodge comes after your home/work obligations.

I hope that helped a bit.

Hi everyone I'm new to the board, and I have to say this thread is the best I've seen so far. I've been searching for a path..studied with AMORC and a templar group, going to check out the OTO next week..there's several masonic lodges nearby, and I believe I'll check one of those out this week as well, this thread, with all of it's excellent information, has inspired me to do so. One question: how many different types of masonry are there? I've heard of 'scottish rite" and "york rite", but I don't really know the difference..can anyone give me some idea on this?
Thanks

edit; one other question..I'm black..from what I've read, it seems there are all black(prince hall) lodges and some all white..is this true? I live in L.A., I can't imagine that would be the case here, but any light you could shed would be appreciated..

[edit on 2-6-2007 by dragonseeker]

Originally posted by dragonseeker
One question: how many different types of masonry are there? I've heard of 'scottish rite" and "york rite", but I don't really know the difference..can anyone give me some idea on this?
Thanks

All Masons go through the first three degrees, which are the "original" ones. Once one receives the Third Degree, he is a Master Mason, and becomes a full member.

In the USA, after one becomes a Master Mason, he may then join the Scottish Rite, the York Rite, or both, if he so desires. These offer additional degrees which elaborate on sections of the first three. They do not confer any "rank" on the initiate, but they allow the brother to extend his knowledge on Masonic topics.

edit; one other question..I'm black..from what I've read, it seems there are all black(prince hall) lodges and some all white..is this true? I live in L.A., I can't imagine that would be the case here, but any light you could shed would be appreciated..

The different Lodges are not all-white and all-black. It could be said that Prince Hall Lodges are mostly black, and "mainstream" Lodges are mostly white, but both Lodges have members of different races.

The Grand Lodge of California and Prince Hall Grand Lodge of California recognize each other. This means that which ever one you joined, you would be able to visit other Lodges that were both Prince Hall and non-PH. It is typical for California Lodges to have both Prince Hall and non-PH members together at the meetings.

Dragonseeker:

Good to hear your interested friend,

One question: how many different types of masonry are there? I've heard of 'scottish rite" and "york rite", but I don't really know the difference..can anyone give me some idea on this?

There is only "one" recognized body of Freemasonry and that is any lodge recognized by the United Grand Lodge of England. They go by the names Ancient Free and Accepted Freemasons

or Free and Accepted Freemasons.

They differences go way back to Masonry's official public founding of the United Grand Lodge not recognizing Ireland.

Now they are both recognized and as far as I can tell the same, if not someone could tell you all about it here no doubt.

Scottish Rite and York Rite, as well as Eastern Star, Shriner, they are off branches of the blue lodge its self. Once you get to the 3rd degree you can choose to not go into other degrees, or to venture into either Scottish, York or both. You can also join Eastern Star once your a master, its a coed group. Once a 32nd you can then become a Shriner, I don't know much about Shriners as I am not one my self.

Scottish Rite is the 33 degrees you hear about so often in conspiracies, its a continuation of the teachings of Masonry in the blue lodge..

Scottish Rite

York Rite is the more Christian section of Masonry, there you have commanderies not degrees, this is where you'll find Templars ect.

York Rite

one other question..I'm black..from what I've read, it seems there are all black(prince hall) lodges and some all white..is this true? I live in L.A., I can't imagine that would be the case here, but any light you could shed would be appreciated..

Hmmm.. As far as I know Prince Hall lodges ARE NOT black only, and admitt anyone into their ranks.. be it white asian, what ever you may be..

They same goes for regular lodges, they admitt anyone..

I have heard stories of investigation committees referring blacks to Prince Hall lodges instead of openly admitting them into their own lodge, this I would say could be malicious or indeed helpful..

Sometimes Prince Hall lodges ask to have blacks referred to them, however in some cases it could be an act of racism.

Color should not restrict your joining ANY lodge, it goes against Masonic principles..

So find the lodge you want and petition.

Prince Hall Lodges

Thanks masoniclight and rockpuck, that clarifies things for me quite a bit. The racial thing had me worried for a minute there, as I couldn't be part of any organization that practices any sort of segregation, for whatever reason..I've chosen the lodge, they meet every monday.. I'll call 'em tomorrow morning to set it up. Looks like york rite may be the way for me once I'm at the appropriate level to do it..getting a little ahead of myself..anyhow, I'll check it out and let ya know what my experience is

[edit on 3-6-2007 by dragonseeker]

well, I've just come back from my first visit to a masonic lodge; it was a "stated" meeting, it included a really good dinner, and live music I got a tour of the lodge met some really nice people..tonight 2 members got pins for being members for 25 years. I had no idea how much charity was a part of masonry, they really do a lot more than I thought. Very impressive overall. I'm not sure it's for me though; My interests are more mystical than fraternal. I'll give it serious thought though..

For you Freemasons,

1. Is Venus the "Eastern Star"?

2. The term "Free and Accepted", Free from what? Accepted by who or what?

3. Why does your belief system contradict the bible, does it not believe in the bible, and is that why it's so secretive?

1. Is Venus the "Eastern Star"

Yes. The Bible also refers to the Eastern Star as Lucifer.

2. The term "Free and Accepted", Free from what? Accepted by who or what?

This I do not know, the exact origins of the meaning. However I would assume it means something along the lines of well.. exactly what it says. Free men, accepted by other brothers of the same craft.

Some of the veterans could give you a much better explanation.

3. Why does your belief system contradict the bible, does it not believe in the bible, and is that why it's so secretive?

Well, I would say that it does not contradict the Bible, except for the absents of a set dogma description ..

Masonry is not Christian, and perhaps thats why you think we therefore contradict that religion.. in reality if you look at the basic principles of Christianity and Masonry and any other religion in the world, they are for the most part identical, just different little stories to describe the basic principles, which change according to the culture that brought about the religion in question.....

Originally posted by spirit7
For you Freemasons,

1. Is Venus the "Eastern Star"?

No, the "Eastern Star" is the legendary Star of Bethlehem beheld by the Magi. "We have seen his star in the east" said the Magi to Herod.

2. The term "Free and Accepted", Free from what? Accepted by who or what?

"Free Mason" was a term used in the medieval stonemason guilds, from which modern Masonry is descended. It denotes a Mason employed by the guild, not bound to any particular manor, as was the case with the serfs.

"Accepted" as in accepted by the fraternity to learn the art of masonry.

3. Why does your belief system contradict the bible, does it not believe in the bible, and is that why it's so secretive?

No, it isn't necessary to be "secretive" to not believe in the Bible. Whoever doesn't believe in the Bible is perfectly free to say so publicly. Freemasonry's "belief system" does not contradict the Bible, although it contradicts some people's misinterpretation of it.

As for me personally, I recognize that some parts of the Bible have great merit, while other parts not so much.

So, you are saying that Christianity is dogmatic, but not your dear old freemasonry organisation, huh? What a load of crap.

Freemasonry spin on the Bible is funny and contradicts itself, but I guess it sounds intelligent to some.

Got to love Masonic Lights explanations, someone who has truly studied the craft.

Colloneh7

So, you are saying that Christianity is dogmatic, but not your dear old freemasonry organisation, huh? What a load of crap.

First off, your rude.

Aside from that, yes Christianity IS dogmatic, as is Judaism, Islam, Hindu ect, ect..

Masonry is not dogmatic, which is what separates it from religions.. Masonry can be called a philosophy to describe it best, but it is in no way a religion because there is NO set belief system that you MUST follow. It has no dogma. Many different religions come together under Masonry, which in it's self makes a dogma of beliefs literally impossible. We all believe in God. What God that may be is your own choosing, Masonry does not choose for you.. unlike Christianity.. this is God, this is God's son, you will believe this or burn for eternity in the fiery pits of Hell.

Freemasonry spin on the Bible is funny and contradicts itself, but I guess it sounds intelligent to some.

There is no "spin" on the Bible held by Masonry as an organization. I personally find the book to be of fables and find it humorous that people devote their lives and claim the fables historic facts. Of course, maybe it sounds intelligent to some though right? Aside from Christianities own misinterpretations and purposefully omitted stories/purposeful mistranslations to keep its followers in line through fear and a enforced dogma.. the general attitude of its members is, if anything, contradictory to its teachings. I think your rude post could be used as an example.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
First off, your rude.

You call Christianity dogmatic, and I say that freemasonry is not above being dogmatic and I'm the one that is rude? You guys are funny.

Aside from that, yes Christianity IS dogmatic, as is Judaism, Islam, Hindu ect, ect..

Yes, we heard you before. Everything is dogmatic but your dear old freemason org. We should just give up all religions and subscribe to freemasonry. Is that what you are saying?

Masonry is not dogmatic, which is what separates it from religions.. Masonry can be called a philosophy to describe it best, but it is in no way a religion because there is NO set belief system that you MUST follow. It has no dogma. Many different religions come together under Masonry, which in it's self makes a dogma of beliefs literally impossible. We all believe in God. What God that may be is your own choosing, Masonry does not choose for you.. unlike Christianity.. this is God, this is God's son, you will believe this or burn for eternity in the fiery pits of Hell.

Masonry is not a religion. Masons say so, and that's how we know. No, it doesn't matter if freemasonry fits every description and defining terms of what deems something a religion, it is not a religion because masons say so when asked directly. However, masons go on and on about their religious beliefs and how masonry molds those beliefs, but it's not a religion. Masons say so. Masons only talk about the "Great Architect" or Jahbulon when someone is not asking about their religious dogma, but freemasonry is not a religion. Masons say so.

There is no "spin" on the Bible held by Masonry as an organization. I personally find the book to be of fables and find it humorous that people devote their lives and claim the fables historic facts. Of course, maybe it sounds intelligent to some though right? Aside from Christianities own misinterpretations and purposefully omitted stories/purposeful mistranslations to keep its followers in line through fear and a enforced dogma.. the general attitude of its members is, if anything, contradictory to its teachings. I think your rude post could be used as an example.

I seem to find a re-occuring pattern for freemasons to mock Christianity. How many contradictions can you freemasons come up with? Tell me again about the Bible usage in your ceremonies?

I guess calling out your goofy contradictions makes me rude. How silly of me.

Originally posted by Colloneh7
You call Christianity dogmatic, and I say that freemasonry is not above being dogmatic and I'm the one that is rude?

Freemasonry is not "dogmatic" in the odious sense of that term. There are numerous definitions of "dogma" suggest: www.dictionary.com

You guys are funny.

Are you here for entertainment or would you actually like to *learn* something about a subject you obviously know very little about?

Yes, we heard you before. Everything is dogmatic but your dear old freemason org. We should just give up all religions and subscribe to freemasonry. Is that what you are saying?

Certainly not. Freemasonry is not a religion. Period. We have no "plan of salvation" NOWHERE does Freemasonry say "do this and you'll go to heaven" I repeat. NOWHERE is that said in Masonic teachings.

Masonry is not a religion. Masons say so, and that's how we know. No, it doesn't matter if freemasonry fits every description and defining terms of what deems something a religion, it is not a religion because masons say so when asked directly.

No. Again, it's not a religion because no "worship" occurs, nor is a "plan of salvation" taught. ALL religions claim to "save one's soul" in one manner or the other. Freemasonry does not make such a claim. It's a fraternity. The brotherhood of ALL mankind because ALL mankind were created by the Almighty. (Do you believe that or do you think that non-Christians came from another source other than God?) Hmmm????

After all, Christ Himself said "Love one another" He didn't "Just love the Christians" (Would have been a silly thing for him to say in the first place...what with him being a Jew and all)

However, masons go on and on about their religious beliefs and how masonry molds those beliefs, but it's not a religion. Masons say so. Masons only talk about the "Great Architect" or Jahbulon when someone is not asking about their religious dogma, but freemasonry is not a religion. Masons say so.

We say so because it's not. How difficult is that to comprehend? As for "Jahbulon" (sheesh)....I've taken just about every Masonic degree there is and have NEVER, not even ONCE heard that bastard word uttered. If you believe Walter Hannah's lie about that, then we might as well stop discussion now because you'll never open your mind enough to learn the truth. Too bad for you.

I seem to find a re-occuring pattern for freemasons to mock Christianity. How many contradictions can you freemasons come up with?

As a Trinitarian Christian who attends Church regularly, I have NEVER mocked Christianity. And out of respect for those who's beliefs differ from mine, I don't mock Judaism either...or anyone else's personal faith. Religions Freedom: A beautiful thing!

Tell me again about the Bible usage in your ceremonies?

The Holy Bible is present in every meeting that I attend. What do you want to know? Many of the degrees include passages read from the Hebrew Scriptures and in some degrees from the Gospels and the Epistles. What of it?

I guess calling out your goofy contradictions makes me rude. How silly of me.

No. Believe me, that isn't it.

Originally posted by Appak
Freemasonry is not "dogmatic" in the odious sense of that term. There are numerous definitions of "dogma" suggest: www.dictionary.com

I have a connection to the internet if you haven't noticed. I do know what dogma means, and freemasonry as you guys defend it is dogmatic.

Are you here for entertainment or would you actually like to *learn* something about a subject you obviously know very little about?

Are you here to thrust your "learn" onto me? Learning is good, and I'm all for it, but be advised - someone else might be more learned than you.

Certainly not. Freemasonry is not a religion. Period. We have no "plan of salvation" NOWHERE does Freemasonry say "do this and you'll go to heaven" I repeat. NOWHERE is that said in Masonic teachings.

Here, I'll use your own quote which contradicts your statement in the very same post you posted:

The Holy Bible is present in every meeting that I attend. What do you want to know? Many of the degrees include passages read from the Hebrew Scriptures and in some degrees from the Gospels and the Epistles. What of it?

Very interesting. When do you say your prayers at your meetings that no"worship" occurs?

No. Again, it's not a religion because no "worship" occurs, nor is a "plan of salvation" taught. ALL religions claim to "save one's soul" in one manner or the other. Freemasonry does not make such a claim. It's a fraternity. The brotherhood of ALL mankind because ALL mankind were created by the Almighty. (Do you believe that or do you think that non-Christians came from another source other than God?) Hmmm????

How does no "worship"=not a religion? Your religion is Luciferian-based, which is somewhat atheistic in nature. You don't see that? Freemasonry is a stepping-stone. It's a lie based on lies. An enigma wrapped in a mystery, and you don't know anything about that?

After all, Christ Himself said "Love one another" He didn't "Just love the Christians" (Would have been a silly thing for him to say in the first place...what with him being a Jew and all)

I guess you want to paint me as some radical fundamentalist, huh? Anyone who questions freemasonry must be a RADICAL person, right? You go about with secrets and occultism linked to nefarious behaviour and anyone who questions that is RADICAL. Get real.

We say so because it's not. How difficult is that to comprehend? As for "Jahbulon" (sheesh)....I've taken just about every Masonic degree there is and have NEVER, not even ONCE heard that bastard word uttered. If you believe Walter Hannah's lie about that, then we might as well stop discussion now because you'll never open your mind enough to learn the truth. Too bad for you.

I guess Jahbulon was made up and masons never submitted to that term because masons say so. Even though it is well documented by masons that do indeed submit to Jahbulon. Just like freemasonry is not a religion because masons say so, even though it is well documented that freemasons submit to freemasonry as a religion. Mason say this, masons say that, and they can choose which argument best suits them at the exact moment they are arguing a single point, but forget the whole picture.

As a Trinitarian Christian who attends Church regularly, I have NEVER mocked Christianity. And out of respect for those who's beliefs differ from mine, I don't mock Judaism either...or anyone else's personal faith. Religions Freedom: A beautiful thing!

Religious freedom is indeed a beautiful thing, so why are you trying to bash me by calling me a religious fundamentalist? Do you even know what that means? I'll take a guess that you think it is an automatically bad thing that should be gotten rid of. Are you sure you support religious freedom?

Originally posted by Colloneh7
I have a connection to the internet if you haven't noticed. I do know what dogma means, and freemasonry as you guys defend it is dogmatic.

You may feel that way if you like, but I wholeheartedly disagree. I won't argue with you about it though, as it would surely do no good.

Are you here to thrust your "learn" onto me? Learning is good, and I'm all for it, but be advised - someone else might be more learned than you.

No doubt there are those who are more learned that me. But you are NOT more learned than me when it comes to Freemasonry. You are gathering your "facts" from anti-Masonic dribble that you are taking to be true. Even what you are reading from Masonic sources, you are twisting and taking out of context. That's not uncommon at all because generally Masonic writings are written FOR Masons and the uninitiated cannot understand it in it's entirety, regardless how learned he or she may be.

Here, I'll use your own quote which contradicts your statement in the very same post you posted:

The Holy Bible is present in every meeting that I attend. What do you want to know? Many of the degrees include passages read from the Hebrew Scriptures and in some degrees from the Gospels and the Epistles. What of it?

Very interesting. When do you say your prayers at your meetings that no"worship" occurs?

I guess I don't understand the question. Sure I pray at meetings. There's an Opening Prayer and a Closing Prayer. Basically the Opening Prayer asks the Almighty to bless our undertakings (i.e. the meeting about to take place) the Closing Prayer asks Him to bless us as we depart. Imploring God's aid is not uncommon in organizations. My Lions Club has an opening and closing prayer too. ...but Lionism is not a religion.

How does no "worship"=not a religion? Your religion is Luciferian-based, which is somewhat atheistic in nature. You don't see that?

That statement alone tells me how much (or little) you understand about Freemasonry. MY "religion" is Christianity. That's why I attend Mass several times a week. My "religion" teaches the salvation of the soul. In my particular "religion" we kneel and worship. We celebrate the Holy Eucharist and receive the Body and Blood of Christ. Freemasonry does NOT do that...nor do all Freemasons. Masonic Light has pointed out his personal beliefs several times. I disagree with his beliefs (as he does mine) but as Masonic Brothers we respect each other's right to believe as his convictions lead him.

You believe that there is no real Christianity but the one that YOU practice. I wouldn't doubt that you think Episcopalians, Lutherans, and perhaps Presbyterians are hell-bound because they do not believe exactly the way you do.

That's your right. But none of it has anything to do with Freemasonry because we're a Brotherhood and there's nothing "Luciferian" about it. Indeed the word "Lucifer" is NEVER used directly OR indirectly in Masonry.

...and dear God please don't say that Albert Pike said we worship Lucifer.

Freemasonry is a stepping-stone. It's a lie based on lies. An enigma wrapped in a mystery, and you don't know anything about that?

What in the WORLD are you babbling about? What "enigma"? It's hilarious to me that I've been a VERY active Freemason for years and years, yet YOU are the expert? Give me a break. I've read practically everything there is to read on the subject (both pro AND con)...I've even written numerous articles on the subject, which required a great deal of research? Don't presume to tell me that I don't know what Freemasonry is. What you [ahem] "know" is what you've heard second-hand and taken to be truth.

I guess you want to paint me as some radical fundamentalist, huh? Anyone who questions freemasonry must be a RADICAL person, right?

No just the Bible-thumpers. You may question Freemasonry all you want. Doesn't bother me. But when you post lies about it, I (along with other actual Masons) will refute the lies. Would you not do the same if someone were lying about YOU?

You go about with secrets and occultism linked to nefarious behaviour and anyone who questions that is RADICAL. Get real.

More insults...[sigh]

I guess Jahbulon was made up and masons never submitted to that term because masons say so.

Show me in Masonic writing where Jahbulon appears. PLEASE show me. It isn't there. The source of that lie comes from three ancient words that anti-Masons took to be some sort of "Masonic God" but it simply is not so. The word "Jahbulon" does NOT appear in ANY Masonic Ritual that I have EVER taken and there are only a very few that I have not....and I have access to the rituals of most of those I have not taken. So again, SHOW ME where the bastard word "Jahbulon" appears in Masonry.

Even though it is well documented by masons that do indeed submit to Jahbulon.

If you're interested in truth, this is a pretty good article. Remember that Masons tell the truth..as YOU said, so you shouldn't have any trouble believing this.

www.masonicinfo.com...

Just like freemasonry is not a religion because masons say so,

No, it's not a religion because it does not claim to "save one's soul" How difficult is that to understand?

even though it is well documented that freemasons submit to freemasonry as a religion.

If a Freemason considers Freemasonry his religion, shame on him because he has completely missed what Freemasonry is all about. You lump us all together in that statement, too. Why is that? I've made it clear that I am a Trinitarian Christian. Always have been. Always WILL be. Freemasonry is NOT my religion...Christianity is. I go to Lodge for "fraternity" (Brotherhood) and for charitable reasons. I go to Church to worship my God. Again, plain and simple.

Religious freedom is indeed a beautiful thing, so why are you trying to bash me by calling me a religious fundamentalist? Do you even know what that means? I'll take a guess that you think it is an automatically bad thing that should be gotten rid of. Are you sure you support religious freedom?

Certainly I support religious freedom. I fail to understand why people like you think that the way YOU believe is the ONLY way to believe. You can hate Freemasonry all you want. It's no skin off mine, but why spread lies about it? I'm not asking you to like Freemasonry, just don't spread untruth about it. It's certainly not for everyone and we certainly do not want everyone to join.

Appak, first off I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the Bible is correct and is the only way. There is no assumptions as far as the Bible goes, you are only allowing yourself to be mis-directed. Also, you do not need a white apron and you don't have to do as many good deeds as you possibly can (although it's not entirely a bad thing) but all you have to do is open up your heart to Jesus and speaketh with your tongue. We are only able to sin through the blood of Jesus Christ, and for that reason only will we be saved but only if you open your heart to Jesus Christ All Mighty. There are only two ways about it. You are either with Jesus or you are led down a different path that you are un-aware of. I will pray for you.

By the way, I am still in search of an avatar of a Holy Eagle that is stomping the crap out of a physical sinning Eagle in to the stone if anyone is good with art. It doesn't matter if you are Freemason or not.

Originally posted by spirit7
Appak, first off I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the Bible is correct and is the only way. There is no assumptions as far as the Bible goes, you are only allowing yourself to be mis-directed.

Why, thank you for turning me back to the right path.

I'll start hating everyone who's not a Christian. Will that make you feel better?

Also, you do not need a white apron

Thank goodness for that. Mine's blue.

and you don't have to do as many good deeds as you possibly can (although it's not entirely a bad thing)

Cool. I'll start being bad now. It's MUCH easier.

but all you have to do is open up your heart to Jesus and speaketh with your tongue.

If thou hadst but read what I have written in past posts, verily would thou have known that I have already done that.

For your information I'll repeat it. I AM A TRINITARIAN CHRISTIAN. (You know..."Father, Son, Holy Spirit"....STRAIGHT out of the Bible)

I will pray for you.

Thanks, but no thanks. I fear that someone like you might invoke the wrath of the Almighty upon me by mistake.

I'd hate that.

Verily

Originally posted by spirit7
By the way, I am still in search of an avatar of a Holy Eagle that is stomping the crap out of a physical sinning Eagle in to the stone if anyone is good with art. It doesn't matter if you are Freemason or not.

How the hell does an eagle SIN?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

That's wonderfully funny.

Thanks...I needed that.

I know Appak, that was funny I admit = - )_

I would like to have an avatar or pic of an Eagle crushing another Eagle into the ground. The one being crushed into the ground would sort of be on it's back. I don't know why, but I think that would be very cool. Maybe General Eyes can help me, he mentioned he was an artist?