Questions about Masonry: an open and honest forum

Antar--

I am very glad that I am able to give a good presentation that as long as it reaches at least one person, I have done good.

but I thought that Hitler had to take side s with the Vatican for the backing of the church not to fight off the masons who did not agree with his agenda.

Hitler had an alliance with the Church in a wierd way, and for several reasons.. Hitler attacked many of the Churches enemies.. (including some Jews) .. but Hitler also killed millions of Catholics..

When looking at the situation now.. it seems more relivent that the CHURCH is the one that actually HAD TO side with Hitler and the Italian government as well..

But the Church was far from saintly during these dark times.. no indeed they where not..

Do you suppose that if history does repeat its self thhat we could see something like this again in the next year or two?

No, not in the next year or two..

History does and will repeat, of course, but always in various forms..

It is the principles in history that are repeated, the lessons failed to be learned and the crimes once thought impossible are implemented against a people while the rest are oblivious to the crimes they commit...

Masonry will always be a targeted institution for the basic laws we abide by -- essentially and very frankly freedom of thought and expression -- because it breeds malcontent with tyrants and unjust, unfounded dictators.

Typically, if a Hitler was to rise again, someone will be targeted, usually the minority because people love to blame others for their shortcomings and various problems.. Jews where blamed by Hitler, along with Gypsies, Gays, Catholics, Masons, Communist, Monarchist, ect ect ect..

BTW I asked my husband one time if he had to choose a group to join he said "Why the Masons of course"!. Hummm well he is a brick mason, see how I came into this site a bit confused?

Many people would love to join the Masons to do good, but I don't think many of these people know how, or have the will and desire to actually go out and try..

It is a well known fact the good Masons do, the general public I honestly think have no clue what Masonry is at all .. I wear my ring and people ask me if its a class ring! .. while others are so into (more or less themselves) that they hate Masonry for their own lack of understanding, or lack of explanation..

You should be proud if your husband where to ever actually join, it is an honorable and noble cause to committ a part of your life to the aid and comfort of your fellow man.

If you have ANY questions at all Antar (and any one else) do not hesitate to ask, I and others will strive to give you the most absolute and complete answer possible.

Congratualations all!! This is by far the most civil discussion I have ever seen on this board, especially concerning Masonry. Something to be proud of by all.

Why thank you Angelwitch,

We are trying harder. We have found that civil forums bring about more communication between actual Masons and those on the outside unsure of exactly what it is we are.. It brings about more answers, and betters the connection between us and the rest of the board.

Of course there are still those who our venomously anti-Masonic, and I think all those with questions about Masonry can look to them and see the true hatred that backs the vast majority of the "anti's"

Those reading this thread

FLAG IT

In the upper left hand side, it says "flag this thread"

Wu Kung deserves the WATS for this month (award) for making this thread!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Those reading this thread

FLAG IT

In the upper left hand side, it says "flag this thread"

Wu Kung deserves the WATS for this month (award) for making this thread!

It's an honor just to be nominated.
I just wanted to do my part in dispelling the myths about this craft that I've come to love.

I've been reading The Book of Hiram and, although I'm only 1/8 of the way through it, it contains some fascinating history.
History not only concerning Masonry, but of civilization as we know it.
If there is anyone interested out there, I highly suggest picking up a copy, you can get it pretty cheap at Barnes and Noble, I picked up mine for ten bucks (totally sweet.)
(um...I'm not endorsing B&N by the way, I just thought you'd like to know.)

By the way RockPuck, thanx for keeping an eye on this thread in my absence.
Between work and school, I've been kind of bugged out.

I'll be back up here regularly in about two weeks, so until then, keep up the good work.
And thank you all for your compliments.
Most importantly, thank you all for your contributions to this thread, without all of you, it would never have happened.


Talk to you all soon.
-Wu K'ung

Brothers, I have a few questions myself.

Are any of you involved in cryptic Masonry?

If so, can you possibly share some information about it with me?
(you can u2u me if you feel uneasy about posting it)

One my local brothers is also a member of our Grand Lodge and he mentioned that the cryptic Masons meet there, but due to time constraints, he could not elaborate further.

I could always look this up on the internet, but I felt that hearing it straight from those involved would be of greater benefit.

Thank you for your time.

Hmmm Wu Kung, all I know about Cryptic Masonry is that it is in some way a continuation of the Masonic teachings, a philosophy of sorts?

Thats all I know lol.. not much. I to would love to hear about it if some of our seniors know anything?

Yeah, it's something that I wish to learn more about.
I do plan on going through both the York Rite (Royal Arch) and the Scottish Rite, but not until I totally familiarize myself with the regular goings on of the Symbolic (Blue) Lodge.

If there are any Cryptic Masons out there, I'd love to hear from you regarding this aspect of Masonry.

Ah yes, I missed out on York Rite 2 weeks ago, had to work..

My "mentors" of sorts, wanted me to get into Scottish Rite and York Rite as soon as possible (to have the uber cool title of youngest 32nd degree) lol and so I could be put into the officers line (photo memory works wonders in degree work ) but I am more easy going and prefer to observe the going ons of the lodge.. to see the order of things, how certain people in certain positions act (because like all human formed groups, its political) and more important, be sure im not ignorant in the craft before taking on even more knowledge and so forth.

I also have a question, not to steer away from your question because I to would love to know more about that..

But, what is the difference between "free and accepted" and "acient free and accepted" .. they offer a 1 day course in the Ancient Accepted in Jan. at my Lodge and I would like more info from an Ancient to tell me what it is exactly.. I have been told it has something to do with Irish and Scottish lodges?

Originally posted by wu kung


If there are any Cryptic Masons out there, I'd love to hear from you regarding this aspect of Masonry.

Cryptic Masonry contains two degrees (Royal Master and Select Master), with an additional side degree (Super Excellent Master). These degrees are available to Royal Arch Masons in good standing, and are conferred in Councils of Select Masters.

There is also an honorary degree for those Brethren who have served as Illustrious Masters of their Council called the Order of the Silver Trowel.

The content of the ritual concerns those legendary events that took place immediately following the Architect's death, during the construction of the Nine Arches.

Originally posted by Rockpuck


I also have a question, not to steer away from your question because I to would love to know more about that..

But, what is the difference between "free and accepted" and "acient free and accepted" .. they offer a 1 day course in the Ancient Accepted in Jan. at my Lodge and I would like more info from an Ancient to tell me what it is exactly.. I have been told it has something to do with Irish and Scottish lodges?

It's a long story, but here it is in a nutshell:

The Premiere Grand Lodge of England, formed in 1717, did not recognize the Irish Lodges. The Irish Lodges therefore organized a Grand Lodge of Ancient York Masons (A.Y.M.), which was in contest to the English Grand Lodge Free and Accepted Masons (F&AM). The primary difference was that the A.Y.M. worked the Royal Arch, while the F.&A.M. did not.

Both Grand Lodges chartered Lodges in the American Colonies, which did not recognize each other. Eventually, the two British Grand Lodges merged, and called themselves the United Grand Lodge of England. This also happended in the colonies.

Therefore, wherever an American Grand Lodge has "Ancient" in its name, it is a result of a merger between an A.Y.M. and F.&A.M. Grand Lodge.

Upon consolidation, it was agreed that the Royal Arch would be taken out of the Lodge, and placed in the Chapter.

Masonic Light, thank you so much.
Once again, your wisdom shines.
It is a pleasure and great honor to have you on this thread.

Is there a difference in the aspects of Royal Arch and Cryptic Masonry in the UK as opposed to the US?

The Antient York Masons also objected to the GLE's moving away from Christianity and more towards the "Supreme Being" concept we are so familiar with now. The Pennsylvania ritual is probably as close as you will get to the Ritual used by the AYM and that used prior to the establishment of the GLE in 1717.

Concerning the Pennsylvania ritual, Albert G. Mackey wrote, "The method of Entering, Passing, and raising candidates in the Lodges of Pennsylvania differs so materially from that practiced in the other States of the Union, that it cannot be considered as a part of the American Rite as first taught by Webb, but rather as an independent, Pennsylvania modification of the York Rite of England. Indeed, the Pennsylvania system of work much more resembles the English than the American. Its ritual is simple and didactic, like the former, and is almost entirely without the impressive dramatization of the latter."

Perhaps the best thread I've encountered on this site so far. Consider it flagged. Very refreshing to see direct responses from masons to direct questions. Gottago's questions covered many areas that were unclear in my mind already, yet I have several points I'll try to bring to the table next week. I'm visiting a very spiritual place here in Australia over the next few days embedded with the rich culture of the original Australians, so it may help crystallize my points.

Rockpuck, you annoy the heck out of me in some other threads but in here I can say your input is invaluable, and it's appreciated i imagine not just those posting, but the many more reading.

Originally posted by wu kung


Is there a difference in the aspects of Royal Arch and Cryptic Masonry in the UK as opposed to the US?

Yes. However, I've never actually seen the different British versions of those rituals, but have only heard about them from English and Scottish brothers, so I'm not really qualified to speak on them. The British are not part of the General Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons International nor the General Grand Council of Cryptic Masons International, but do have mutual recognition with us.

You also may want to check out www.yorkrite.com, which has some really good information on the various organizations, including links to their websites.

Again, thank you Masonic Light.
You've become invaluable in this thread.

And to Angelwitch, thank you for your compliments, we've all worked very hard on this thread in the hopes that all can benefit from it.

Shar_Chi

Rockpuck, you annoy the heck out of me in some other threads but in here I can say your input is invaluable, and it's appreciated i imagine not just those posting, but the many more reading.

I ANNOY SOMEONE?????? nooo.. not possible! Its ok, I figure if I annoy someone it means that I am doing a damn good job!

In all sincerity thanks for the kind words Shar, much appreciated.. any questions that need to be asked this is the place to do it..

RockPuck actually annoyed someone?
Are you serious?
I never would have thought it possible...

Oh, I've found some stuff about Cryptic Masonry and for the benefit of those on this thread, I will post it for you.

What Is Cryptic Masonry Of The York Rite Of Freemasonry

Councils of Cryptic Masons form the center body of the York Rite of Freemasonry. A Master Mason may join a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons and receive the four degrees of that organization. After which he may seek further knowledge in Freemasonry and join a Council of Cryptic Masons.

CRYPTIC RITE
No rite of Freemasonry has come into its own so much as the series of degrees known as the Cryptic Rite, also known as the Cryptic Masons. Its popularity is well deserved for there are no more beautiful or meaningful degrees in all Freemasonry that those conferred in the Council of Cryptic Masons.

One reason for its popularity is that it completes a story, a Masonic allegory. Freemasonry is very philosophical and teaches its ideals by allegory or story. This philosophy is moralistic and religious however Freemasonry is not a religion., nor a substitute for one. A requirement for membership in Freemasonry is a professed belief in God and eternal life. It is mandatory that a man profess a personal faith in a Supreme Being prior to becoming a Freemason. Fremasonry never attempts to alter any one's beliefs. Freemasonry offers no theology or plan of salvation. However, it does offer a moral plan to use in this world. Leaving the Mason to look to his religion for salvation into the next world.

Ancient Cryptic Masonry centers around the story of the preservation, loss and recovery of the Word. The Word represents man's search for life's purpose and the nature of GOD. Symbolic Freemasonry, as in the Lodge, teaches of the loss of the Word and hope for its recovery. Royal Arch Masonry, as in the Chapter, teaches its recovery. Cryptic Masonry, as in the Council, completes this story by teaching of the Word's initial preservation.

View the rest here:
www.yorkriteofcalifornia.org...

and more here:
www.yorkrite.com...

and for you New Yorkers (and if there are any NY'ers here, toss me a u2u so we can meet up):
www.nycryptic.org...

Okay, well, I have quite a bit of reading to do, so I'll catch up with you all later.
Happy reading!!

In an earlier post on this thread I brought up the issue of the local lodge having it's cornerstone in the northwest corner. I have since learned that it was retrofitted to the building, which may explain why it is misplaced.

I have recently petitioned my local Blue lodge. Im in the stage of getting current members to vouch for me. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can help/hinder my chances of being admitted?

I know it's been said, but this an excellent thread. Thanks Wu King for starting it up. Good Job!