Papoose Lake- Setting the record straight!

Originally posted by Ghost01

Originally posted by SocialistAgenda
If I were to say "enjoy your stay" I would be lying to you! Your not welcome by me, but since ATS calls the shots I have no say and will leave it at that!

Gee, I was Just thinking the same about YOU!

When I post my Research and sorces you TRASH them! Then you have the balls to gripe in the same breath that I Don't do any research.

NEWS FLASH: The truth isn't Always what you wish it was, but that doesn't make it any less True!

Tim

No, your wrong! Unlike you, I read all sources before I decide what to believe! If you had bothered to read any of my sources instead of going on discrediting campaigns you would probably have different opinions!

The fact you don't bother is suspicious in itself! Your just as bad as yfxxx if not worse! At least he openly admits to not believing anything while you claim to be a "researcher"! What a joke!!!!!!!!

Anyway, you have a right to believe whatever you want and I have a right to my opinions!

Tim,

You mention at the beginning of this thread that there is nothing at Papoose Lake.

I was wondering if, in the past 15 years of your research if you had ever looked at this website:

users.skynet.be...

And if you had, do you think that every single drawing and every single image and every map and every single statement was false and/or misleading? To what end?

And I was also wondering if you had read, during your research of Papoose Lake and Bob Lazar, the entire archives of that website.

As you know, if you read them, they are the entire transcript of the writer for New Line Cinema and Bob Lazar. I think the tapes last about 6 hours. I was wondering if you thought that Bob Lazar had made up the entire story and was hoaxing New Line Cinema.

And I was also wondering, in particular what you thought about the transcript of tape 2?

Also, as you know. Dr. Ed Mitchell, Apollo Astronaut, came to town to visit with Bob. In fact Bob Bigelow, who was then Bob's partner in a company called Zeta Reticuli Research arranged a dinner for Dr. Mitchell, Bob and many of Bigelows friends. Did you ever contact Mitchell to find out what he thought about Bob.

And also, you keep mentioning that I am the only one to talk about Bob. George Knapp has verified many of Bobs claims. Did you ever interview George Knapp. Or Jim Tagliani? Or Joe Vannanitti?

Thank you for your time.

Originally posted by SocialistAgenda
No, your wrong! Unlike you, I read all sources before I decide what to believe! If you had bothered to read any of my sources instead of going on discrediting campaigns you would probably have different opinions!

How did you ever get the idea that I don't read ALL of the sources?

I've been to United Nuclear and the other sites John and you have posted NUMOUROUS times. Don't you dare point fingers at people! Just because I've come to the conclusion that a source isn't creditable doesn't mean I never read it.

Let me enlighten you a bit:

Company HistoryUnited Nuclear was formed in 1986 by Los Alamos scientist, Bob Lazar. Bob had previously worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory ( specifically in the Meson Physics facility ), involved with experiments using the 1/2 mile long Linear Particle Accelerator. After a few years, he eventually decided to break away and start his own company. In the summer of 1986, Bob moved from Los Alamos, New Mexico to Las Vegas, Nevada, and there the new company was formed and named United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, LLC.
Initially, UNSS had only offered design & consulting services, spending most of its time designing, building & repairing radiation detection equipment (under contract) for various national laboratories. At the same point in time, it also produced precision 3D computer animation for several Government agencies and large corporations, as well as devoting a fair amount of time to designing & developing Hydrogen Fuel Systems and small jet & rocket engines.
Over the following years, Bob was hired at a remote area of the Nevada Test Site known as Area 51/S4 to engage in some highly classified research, but managed to keep United Nuclear alive by hiring additional people to make up for his absence. Over time, UNSS gradually expanded in both size and personnel, and in the winter of 1990, Bob returned to devoting his full time to his business.

Here read up on the history of United Nuclear. Did you realise a few things:

-The Company does Government Contrating
-It's own by Robert Scott Lazar A.K.A Bob Lazar
- The Website says they do "Classified" work for the Government.
- the above quote from Bob's website list's his work location as: Area 51/S4 (guess what, even your old pal John Lear sais Area 51 is NOT S-4)

Exactly why is it that the US Government is going to contract the Guy who "blew the whistle" on a Supposed Top Secret project to run another secret one for them?

You expect me to Change my beliefs as "PROOF" that I read the website?

You are ARROGENT in the way you talk to people! Perhaps I can enlighten you a bit:ATS Handbook

Read up on ATS Etiquitte! We actually have rules about how you are Supposed to treat other people.

I'm getting sick of your belittleing, smear tactics, cheap shots, and outright Insaults!

I read your sources many times, I even quoted one of them above for your reading pleasure. However, I still don't believe a single word in any of them.

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01

Originally posted by SocialistAgenda
No, your wrong! Unlike you, I read all sources before I decide what to believe! If you had bothered to read any of my sources instead of going on discrediting campaigns you would probably have different opinions!

I read your sources many times, I even quoted one of them above for your reading pleasure. However, I still don't believe a single word in any of them.Tim

Thank you Tim. I was just wondering whether or not you read the transcript of Tape 2 and what your thoughts where?

I was also wondering if you had ever attempted to reach Dr. Mitchell and ask what his thoughts were on Bob Lazar. He spent some time with Bob and even had dinner with him. As Dr. Mitchell bought his own plane ticket clear across country just to meet Bob I thought he might be willing to give you his impression of Bob, particularly if he felt he wasted his money.

Thank you for your time.

Originally posted by johnlear
I was also wondering if you had ever attempted to reach Dr. Mitchell and ask what his thoughts were on Bob Lazar. He spent some time with Bob and even had dinner with him. As Dr. Mitchell bought his own plane ticket clear across country just to meet Bob I thought he might be willing to give you his impression of Bob, particularly if he felt he wasted his money.

This is as irrelevant as it can get. Dr. Mitchell (or anyone else) can say about Bob Lazar whatever they like, but it won't change the fact that Mr. Lazar has demostrably lied in his "S-4" story, most notably about his educational background. This alone discredits him as a reliable and credible witness. No personal opinions about his "impression" will change the facts.

Regards
yf

Originally posted by yfxxx

This is as irrelevant as it can get. Dr. Mitchell (or anyone else) can say about Bob Lazar whatever they like, but it won't change the fact that Mr. Lazar has demostrably lied in his "S-4" story, most notably about his educational background. This alone discredits him as a reliable and credible witness. No personal opinions about his "impression" will change the facts.

I highly value your input yfxxx and thank you for taking the time to post on this subject. I am wondering about your thoughts on the Bob Lazar website. It seems that somebody went to an awful lot of trouble to make all those images and maps and technical drawings.

I was just wondering what your opinion was on the website? Is it a complete hoax? Or is some of it true?

I was also wondering about your opinion of the transcripts. Do you think they are legitimate? Or were the transcripts made up?

Again, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. It is most appreciated.

Originally posted by Ghost01
-You expect me to Change my beliefs as "PROOF" that I read the website?

No. Actually I just wanted you to respond to my question.

You are ARROGENT in the way you talk to people!

Please accept my sincerest apologies for anything I said that offended you.

Read up on ATS Etiquitte! We actually have rules about how you are Supposed to treat other people.

I read up on it Tim and again please accept my sincerest apologies if I offended you in any way.

I'm getting sick of your belittleing, smear tactics, cheap shots, and outright Insaults!

You have my apologies Tim.

I read your sources many times, I even quoted one of them above for your reading pleasure. However, I still don't believe a single word in any of them. Tim

I understand that TIm I was just wondering what you felt about this Soviet satellite camera and the pictures it took of S-4. Do you think they were faked. Also, what do you think about the enlargements.

And what do you think about the Soviets increasing their photo taking activity. Do you think they were duped by Lazar?

Soviet Sojuzkarta KFA-1000 Camera

* Archive begins in 1970.
* Nominal resolution = 5 meters
* Spectral Bands = .56 - .67 Green/Red
* Spectral Bands = .67 - .81 Red/Near IR
* Scene size = 80x100 km (50 x 60 mi.)
* Scale of film product = 1:220,000 to 1:280,000
* Frame format = 300 x 300 mm
* 1000mm focal length lens

The maps and studies above were mostly derived from a single shot taken by one of the former Soviet Unions spy satellites. The Image was taken on a Sunday morning, July 17th, 1988 of the forbidden Groom Lake on the Nellis Air Force range in Central Nevada.

An Alternate Image: Taken 1/60th of a second earlier from the same camera.

It was no surprise to the US officials who were hiding the "Dreamland" from the world, that the Soviets were spying on them from 180 miles above. A single satellite image covers a 50 x 50 mile area. The type of imaging technology used by this satellite is primitive by today's standards.

Prior to Lazar's appearance in the media, Soviet satellites were photographing the Area 51 / S4 area three times a month. After Lazar appeared on television revealing information about the project, the Soviets began photographing the Papoose lake region and S4 almost daily.

Basically, the satellite snapped a picture through filters and exposed the image on a single 12" square sheet of film. A canister containing a roll or completed magazine was jettisoned to earth. Groom Lake was the primary interest to this satellite when covering the Nevada area. An interest due in part to the Stealth and SR71 projects which were built and tested at Groom Lake. With Lazar coming forward and identifying S4 in 1989, the surveillance from this particular satellite increased from one every two weeks to one a day . Actually, the alien technology wasn't housed at Area 51 at all. But rather, 15 miles south of Groom Lake, at the Papoose dry lakebed.


So what do you think Tim. Were the Soviets duped by Lazar?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and please accept my apologies for any insult you suffered. Thanks.

Tim,

This is the photo I wanted you to look at that might be a little better than the one you posted at the beginning of this thread. I am still working on getting the original one from Russia but no one seems to know where it went to.

Do you think this photo is less than genuine?

Well this has been a fun thread. On the fact that a Secret Base is protected I point to 2 very secret bases that were not at all protected in any way you could tell. Greenbrier, the hidden bunker where congress was to go in case of a nuclear attack was completely open. ( golf resort) The other was the Russian Space Rocket research facility that the US never found until the wall came down. That was in the middle of Moscow posing as an apartment building I believe. Hiding things in plane site is sometimes the best. I told my son when he was thinking about going into imagery, don't look for what is there, don't look for what is not there. Look for what should be there but is missing based on what appears there.

Originally posted by johnlear
Tim,

This is the photo I wanted you to look at that might be a little better than the one you posted at the beginning of this thread. I am still working on getting the original one from Russia but no one seems to know where it went to.

Do you think this photo is less than genuine?

John, if it was genuine it wouldn't have that # all over it.

I meat to say it didn't have *snip* all over it.

Apparently ATS encourages censorship.



Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Stu Brown of POPULAR SCIENCE magazine had a good print of the Russian satellite image. That circular "object" appeared to be simply a bubble in the film.

I could see nothing in the image that appeared to be a hangar or landing site in the Papoose Lake area.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by Shadowhawk]

Originally posted by Shadowhawk

Stu Brown of POPULAR SCIENCE magazine had a good print of the Russian satellite image. That circular "object" appeared to be simply a bubble in the film.

Stu may have been correct because a 350 foot diameter disk would not have fit in the bays as Bob drew them.

I could see nothing in the image that appeared to be a hangar or landing site in the Papoose Lake area.

Yes, I agree. The hangars and landing sites (if they exist) are very well hidden.

Originally posted by johnlear
Stu may have been correct because a 350 foot diameter disk would not have fit in the bays as Bob drew them.

John, could you please share the pictures that Bob drew?

Originally posted by johnlear
Yes, I agree. The hangars and landing sites (if they exist) are very well hidden.

What hangers and landing sites?

Originally posted by Cobra1982

Originally posted by johnlear
Stu may have been correct because a 350 foot diameter disk would not have fit in the bays as Bob drew them.

John, could you please share the pictures that Bob drew?

Originally posted by johnlear
Yes, I agree. The hangars and landing sites (if they exist) are very well hidden.

What hangers and landing sites?

This is how Bob described the lab he worked in with Castillio.

Originally posted by johnlear
I highly value your input yfxxx and thank you for taking the time to post on this subject. I am wondering about your thoughts on the Bob Lazar website. It seems that somebody went to an awful lot of trouble to make all those images and maps and technical drawings.

Yes, and so what? There are lots of people who invest incredible amounts of time and effort to create works of art and fiction. Usually, these works are also sold as art and fiction.

In fact, I think that with a reasonable effort this "Bob Lazar" website could have been created from scratch easily within a year, so there is nothing special at all about it.

I was just wondering what your opinion was on the website?

Because of the kindergarten attitude of the ATS censors, I can't honestly give you my overall opinion on the website in a few words .

Is it a complete hoax?

Basically, yes.

Or is some of it true?

Nothing except the trivial facts (like Lazar's name etc. ).

I was also wondering about your opinion of the transcripts. Do you think they are legitimate? Or were the transcripts made up?

I guess the transcripts are "legitimate" in the sense that the interviews actually took place. However, Mr. Lazar completely made up all the essentials of his story.

To say it again: The whole S-4 thing is Bob Lazar's tall tale, and nothing else! Others may have jumped on the wagon, but Lazar defined the myth, and he has absolutely nothing to prove it. On the contrary, his obvious lies about his background completely destroyed his credibility, and therefore, with his word being the only "evidence" for the S-4 claim, it is mandatory - at least claims for anyone with the ability to think critically - to dismiss his S-4 claims.

Regards
yf

Originally posted by johnlear
Thank you Tim. I was just wondering whether or not you read the transcript of Tape 2 and what your thoughts where?

I was also wondering if you had ever attempted to reach Dr. Mitchell and ask what his thoughts were on Bob Lazar. He spent some time with Bob and even had dinner with him. As Dr. Mitchell bought his own plane ticket clear across country just to meet Bob I thought he might be willing to give you his impression of Bob, particularly if he felt he wasted his money.

Thank you for your time.

I've read several transcripts from discussion. I must admit I'm not sure anymore which one was tape 2.

I've never been able to reach Dr. Mitchell. However, if you know How I can contact him, please share John. I would love to follow up with him.

Tim

[edit on 3/23/2007 by Ghost01]

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by Ghost01
-You expect me to Change my beliefs as "PROOF" that I read the website?

No. Actually I just wanted you to respond to my question.

You are ARROGENT in the way you talk to people!

Please accept my sincerest apologies for anything I said that offended you.

Read up on ATS Etiquitte! We actually have rules about how you are Supposed to treat other people.

I read up on it Tim and again please accept my sincerest apologies if I offended you in any way.

John,

The post you were replying to here was meant for someone else! You didn't owe me anything. I was trying to confront Socialist Agenda about his behavior in this thread. I'm sorry if you thought I was upset with you.

Tim

Originally posted by johnlear
Tim,

This is the photo I wanted you to look at that might be a little better than the one you posted at the beginning of this thread. I am still working on getting the original one from Russia but no one seems to know where it went to.

Do you think this photo is less than genuine?

John,

That's a very genuine photo! As for what the object in the picture is, I honestly don't know. You have me scratching my head on this. The fact of the matter is this:
The disk-shaped object in the picture is most likely something moble (a air or spacecraft is a very reasonable guess). Being a moble object, we really can't tell where it came from! Did you ever consider the posability that it could have also come from Groom Lake?

This photo is one of the images I've studied for quite a while in videos I own. I really can't tell you what you're looking at. My best GUESS is that it might be some kind of Experimental aircraft that had to make an emergency landing dew to an inflight problem.

Thanks John, I would be intrested in your theroy on this craft. Could it be the craft you saw the night you were with Bob out at Area 51?

Tim