most people seems to think that aliens would be hostile. why?

Hmmm.

Well, it may stem from the collective unconscious view of things here on earth.
We see that with technology, typically comes corrupt power. (yes, this does not have to be the case, and I personal love technology...but yes, it seems it never fits into the hands of someone who could actually not use it as a 'control' device - enough said on that point.)

Having said that, we see the world governments, who appear to be fighting each other.
Ironically, they dont kill off each other, really...no, they prefer to recruit and send out willing victims to fight for the causes that they claim are 'just' and for the common 'good' of the people of that land.

So the 'masses' kill off each other with the 'tools' handed to them by those who have the 'power' to do so.

If our own earth is so uncivil, so barbaric...then why do we expect alien life forms to be benevolent? If they are more advanced, surely they have a way to control us like robots...after all, with technology typically comes the desire to control when ones views are misplaced. - again, it does not have to be...many people make a dividing line.
- love technology and control - or hate technology, its the devil.

So in short, this may be why people would have a hard time believing that aliens are cool and nice. Not only our the governments of our world with their advanced technologies not nice...we are not either.

We will fight, bicker, try to one-up at the job place...and what for?
Only to see that all the people involved in the job place struggle eventually leave, and watch as the company takes a totally new approach under a new leader.

As Solomon said, "All is vanity...a chasing after the wind."

We would better be served to enjoy life, looking at it like a set of legos...it brakes down and we build again.

Things are ever shifting around us, but we want to convince ourselves of its solidity.
And this causes the struggle. We take the 'drama' on the stage to be real.

Life is but a stage and I am an actor. Most of us may enjoy the drama that entails with it, but dont be surprised that the collective conscious then creates the types of governments that it does to reflect that of what the collective conscious wants.

So, maybe out there somewhere...there is intelligent life that has merged technology with that of 'space' - love. I would like to meet those aliens.

By the way, we are all aliens...science tells us that we have elements in us that come from a supernova from somewhere 'out there'. We are not even native to the earth.

We are like a parasite that the earth wants to shake off...(at least most of us)

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by dahl
most people seems to think that aliens would be hostile. why?

Probably because the aliens are sneeking around and not operating in the open and don't make their intentions known.

Probably because they abduct humans against their will.

Probably because they run painful and humiliating experiments on humans.

Those are darn good reasons not to trust aliens don't you think?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by dahl
most people seems to think that aliens would be hostile. why?

Probably because the aliens are sneeking around and not operating in the open and don't make their intentions known.

Probably because they abduct humans against their will.

Probably because they run painful and humiliating experiments on humans.

Those are darn good reasons not to trust aliens don't you think?

HERE HERE!

THIS is precisely where we need to go. Ask yourself. Don't take my word for it. Which option below makes more sense:

Scenario
UFOs are showing up all over the place

More than 20 Million AMERICANS alone claim Abductee status.

NASA is investigating a COVERUP and CONCEALMENT of scientific data that belongs to ALL humanity.

Sumerian Texts are coming to be understood with more CLARITY now than ever before.

Evidence of "civilization" has been discovered on the ocean floors

Derrel Sims is professing an INTEL or "psychwar" has been ongoing for all history of Mankind. OTHERS are actually making similar or identical claims now. Ken Klein, David Sereda, Jim Marrs, Stanton Friedman, Graham Hancock, Brooks Agnew, Linda Moulton Howe, Timothy Good, et al

In fact, some investigators have evidence of ET hair, Alien RAPE (fluids, semen, etc IN THEIR POSSESSION awaiting analysis), Induction of MASS ABDUCTION via psychological infiltration of the "enemy stronghold". Yeah... that's what I said at first too... the evidence and testimony is there though...

Astronauts are stalking each other. (wtf? Are you REALLY going to tell me that Astronaut Nowak REALLY just "lost it" like some chick on Jerry Springer who lesbian lover is sleeping with her transvestite sister that is letting both of them stay in a house that she broke into and lied about having bought??? LOL!!!

I think that if ANYBODY looked that psych quals for the Astronaut Corps you'd understand that:
1) Astronauts DON'T just "freak out"
2) There may some SERIOUS stress going on at NASA of which we are completely unaware
3) MKULTRA may be making a "comeback" LOL!!! *SPducksforcover*

THESE are the types of questions one really has to ask. We are not dealing with a STERILE environment here folks. In fact, there are some REALLY unpredictable, yet consistant, variables in this matrix. GREED for one. VERY dangerous in ANY environment, no? I think we could prove that by merely offering up our own "environment" as testament on that argument, wouldn't you agree?


Options for Resolution
1) they are benign. they are studying us.
2) they are perpetrating VIOLENT CRIMES against humanity on a REGULAR BASIS and HAVE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
3) ET wants to be your drinkin' buddy

So, in consideration of the EVIDENCE, just which of the options above makes the most sense to explain what has been, what is, and what will continue to happen to humanity at about 3am every night?

Yeah... I know... it's NOT easy to swallow. The reason why is that you are having to psychologically ADMIT TO YOURSELF that "mankind" is no longer at the top of the "food chain".

SPout

i think it comes down to this: for a species to really do interstellar flight it takes resources and lots of them, i think it would take a planetary cooperation to pull off. so what you have is an entire planet united in the quest for interstellar contact/exploration. now here's the catch planetary solidarity can come in two forms ( I'm going to use the star trek model as most are familiar with it.) you can have the militarized and some what benign federation or you can have the Klingon's. i don't see how you could get something in between because the non unified planet would not muster the resources of one nation because it would leave them open to aggression from their neighbors.

Originally posted by wcssar
i think it comes down to this: for a species to really do interstellar flight it takes resources and lots of them, i think it would take a planetary cooperation to pull off.

Though you make a good point about planetary cooperation, I think any 'species' that makes it into space is by definition aggressive. That aggressive drive to 'go out there' and explore would lead them to being what other 'species' might consider hostile, at least to other life forms.

I'd agree with Stephen Hawking's assessment that we should 'keep our heads down' wrt alien contact. (other than messaging remotely).

OTOH, I think that the hard vacuum of space, immense distances, radiation, and other factors is about the best method of isolation you could devise (though some think that bacteria can survive on meteors.

Thus any alien life is likely to be either a type of bacteria or virus (and I don't want to meet either of those!), or if it's a probe it would be a micro-miniature, un-'manned' vehicle, at least at first.

Think about it. If we did make it into space and traveled to another star system and met a race of 'bugs', we'd be very xenophobic and would probably try to exterminate them before trying to colonize the planet. Heck we're repulsed and afraid of certain non-mammalian species on our own planet. How do you think we're going to respond to BEMs?

Personally I think we're alone in the universe, wrt sentient beings. There may be microbe type creatures and lower life, but the conditions that allow us a stable climate and a planet with sufficient minerals in the crust is going to be so rare (especially given the periodic extinctions that most planets undergo) that the chance of other sentient, space-faring beings (we're not there yet) is virtually zero in our galaxy, if not the universe.

The more we learn about the fragile earth-moon ecosystem the more I tend to believe this way.

I think WE scare the crap outta them, thats why they are secretive, Look at OUR history, would you want an animalistic war monger cruising through interstellar space, I mean think about it, WE have nukes, they are not nice at all, we would try to take over the Universe, I wouldn't want that bunch to get out of the home solar system at all.

It's no wonder they treat us with so little respect considering how we treat each other on our OWN Planet. I would not be surprised that they would intervene if we ever DID get interstellar capabilities

This would be a hoot!!

Some aliens decide to land and introduce themselves to humankind. Humankind start arguing and fighting amoungst themselves over the aliens real intentions, Good or Evil, Gods or Devils, Angels or Demons.
and in the process of different opinions destroyed one other, ending the human race...

And all the alien visitors wanted was to say "HI, neighbour."......

[edit on 28-2-2007 by ixiy]

[edit on 28-2-2007 by ixiy]

I think the thought that they would be hotile stems from 2 things in reality.
1. Through alot of Sci-Fi movies I.e. Independence Day, Plan 9 From Outer Space etc. we have been conditioned to believe that aliens are going to have a bad agenda. Look at War of the worlds, same concept.
2. Humans tend to think of things in human terms. Look at history, quite often when a group fo people meets a new culture there is conflict. People don't think of the fact that Aliens, by very definition are Alien to us and may have different thought processes, and motivation.

My personal opinion is that there are good Aliens and Hostile Aliens. If the ones that are supposedly visiting us are hostile. I think we'd surely know it by now.

Originally posted by ixiy
Some aliens decide to land and introduce themselves to humankind.

They've had plenty of opportunities to introduce themselves. But instead, they decide to abduct, terrify, and run painful experiements.

And all the alien visitors wanted was to say "HI, neighbour"

Actually, all they ever say is 'open wide for my big painful metalic medical instruments so that I can do something painful and humiliating to you.'


They aren't popping by to have tea and cookies. They don't give a hoot what we think, feel, or want. They have had plenty of time and opportunities to 'introduce' themselves. At this point, if they started to land in the open, I wouldn't blame people if they pulled out shotguns and hammered away. It would be the fault of the aliens if that happened .. considering their past painful behaviors towards humans and all.

Originally posted by wcssar
i think it comes down to this: for a species to really do interstellar flight it takes resources and lots of them, i think it would take a planetary cooperation to pull off.

Why?

All it takes is one major breakthrough... one new discovery

Rockets that are used for taking man into space and for modern warfare are the product of on man and a team of a hundred or so scientists...

If you look at the total money spent on the space program since it began, its really peanuts in the grand scheme of things, not to mention the money that has been created from offshoot technology..

NASA and Los Alamos have papers in the archive that talk about work on Warp Drives and Gravity Shielding (the new term for anti-gravity..

Look around the Lunar and Planetary institute and see the plans that have been in the works for DECADES out of the public spotlight for the new push to the Moon and Mars....

And believe me NASA, Space Command and our Government have no intention of letting anyone else get there first

[edit on 28-2-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by ixiy
This would be a hoot!!

Some aliens decide to land and introduce themselves to humankind. Humankind start arguing and fighting amoungst themselves over the aliens real intentions, Good or Evil, Gods or Devils, Angels or Demons.
and in the process of different opinions destroyed one other, ending the human race...

And all the alien visitors wanted was to say "HI, neighbour."......

What would be a real HOOT is if thats exactly what happened back in Sumeria and the resulting chaos created religion....

And two thousand plus years later the human race is still fighting "jihads" on which side is right...

And now they come back and look around and say...

"Damn!! They are STILL bickering about that?"

Now THAT would be a HOOT

Another factor is that Humans have always thought themselve important in the universe..

Earth used to be in the center of everything...

Religions state that God only cares about this little rock in the middle of nowhere... that in all the creation of the universe immensely old we are the only ones that count...

So save for some genetic experiments, (which might simply be Alien Biology 101 like we used to and still do dissect frogs..) what makes everyone think that we have anything an advanced Alien species would find of value?

For them to get here they would be advanced so its not technology

Minerals are all over the universe... diamonds the size of cars on some of the big planets in our solar system

Water... Europa is a whole planet made of water with no pesking humans to throw nukes at em

Just to say "Hi Neighbour..."?

Don't forget that every tv broadcast about how we treat Aliens has been beaming off this rock since tV began and before that radio :War of the Worlds" Now granted even at the speed of light all those signals have only reached a few stars within a 60 light year radius... but any passing Alien picking up those signals would have good reason not to stop by and say "Hi Neighbour..."?


[edit on 28-2-2007 by zorgon]

Personally I think we're alone in the universe, wrt sentient beings. There may be microbe type creatures and lower life, but the conditions that allow us a stable climate and a planet with sufficient minerals in the crust is going to be so rare (especially given the periodic extinctions that most planets undergo) that the chance of other sentient, space-faring beings (we're not there yet) is virtually zero in our galaxy, if not the universe.

hi badge01, you make very interesting points which i think about alot. I agree about the space-faring part, interstellar/galactic travel i have a hard time imagineing. But on your other points im still more optimistic.

50 years ago scientist thought solar systems with planets were extremely rare - the thinking at that time was it needed stars to collide to form planets- which doesnt happen very often. 25 years later theories changed and planets were thought to be very common but even microbial life was thought to be extrememly rare. Today the problem isnt planets or simple life but advanced life is now extrememly rare! hopefully in 25 years we will be discussing how civilizations who are worth bothering about are extremely rare!

I stole this info from seth shostak at SETI. Theres a great debate with him & peter ward (author of rare earth) you can listen to it here podcast.seti.org... - the debate starts 19mins into the podcast

also another link you will find interesting www.space.com...

i hope it makes you more optimistic





[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by dahl
most people seems to think that aliens would be hostile. why?

if a alien would try to talk with us we would probably bomb them because we was scared

they might be nice.

damn its gonna be nice when we can travel to other planets like in star wars go to bar with aliens lol

[edit on 27-2-2007 by dahl]

They were ready to nuke us at the end of WWII for having to disrupt
their saucer program in Germany.

We went after them in operation high jump and got beat off.
Forrestall may have been killed by the aliens.

We might have some of their technology in New Mexico with the
help of Von Braun.

The old weapons must be rust now and just saucer technology is
is no threat, so it just a secret now.

So the alien must be going the hippy thing and smelling the flowers.

Unless the war machine was updated in Antaritica.

This is my take on various internet pages and books on the subject.

IMO, most of the "evidence" available points to the following:

1. There are many alien species visiting earth
   
2. Some are hostile
   
3. Some are benevolent
   
4. Some are just exploring
   
5. Some are opportunists
   

Despite its controversial outlook, I think the krill papers say everything in a nutshell although I may not necessarily agree on everything! I personally believe in a universal balance of diversity. Everything exists in some quantity...Ying-Yang.

Without "good" there is no "evil" and without "evil" there is no "good"! It is paranoid and stupid to assume all are "evil" and naive to assume all are "good" just like on earth.

Earth is not the center of universe nor is our sun. IMO, people who believe this and also believe that ONLY earth has intelligent life are ARROGANT and/or EXTREMLY IGNORANT as there is so much "evidence" to disprove this I really have no clue why some people still stick to that belief. It makes absolutely ZERO SENSE and even less sense than people who believe that they are ALL "GOOD" or ALL "BAD"!

I think its about time we start getting our "facts" straight!

[edit on 28-2-2007 by SocialistAgenda]

Originally posted by SocialistAgenda
people who believe ... that ONLY earth has intelligent life are ARROGANT and/or EXTREMLY IGNORANT ..

Many are very religious. There are some religious folks who believe that God made humans in a special way and that He made everything just for us because He loves us so. That is what I was told by more than one conservative religious person.

No, that is not my belief. I am just adding one more reason why some believe that we are alone in the universe to your list

people who believe ... that ONLY earth has intelligent life are ARROGANT and/or EXTREMLY IGNORANT

i dont think so , theyre just putting their point of view and its an interesting arguement to listen to. I think the biggest problem is what SETI refers to as the "synchronicity" problem. Their could have been other civilizations millions of years ago or there will be millions of years from now, to find a civilization thats within hearing distance thats exists exactly now- like us- may be more of a problem.



[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

I just edited my previous post and I apologize if it comes out too "strong"!
My intention is not to insult anyone but rather to blame the "system" as I and everyone at some point either clinged or still cling to those views. Indeed it takes some research and open mindness to change one's views as the system(including all the religious systems) go out of their way to keep the status quo!

Again, I apologize if I offended anyone but that was not my initial intention.

Regards

Originally posted by yeti101

people who believe ... that ONLY earth has intelligent life are ARROGANT and/or EXTREMLY IGNORANT

i dont think so , theyre just putting their point of view and its an interesting arguement to listen to. I think the biggest problem is what SETI refers to as the "synchronicity" problem. Their could have been other civilizations millions of years ago or there will be millions of years from now, to find a civilization thats within hearing distance thats exists exactly now- like us- may be more of a problem.



[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

Yeti01, thanks for the feed back on the other post in this thread. I have to admit it's a pessimistic view. Some days I think there's a high likelihood of other sentient creatures in our galaxy, other days, I seriously doubt it.

As I mentioned I think the Drake equation needs some additional terms. Things like stable economy, available natural resources, drive for exploration and self-risk for knowledge, frequency of periodic extinctions.

The more we learn about the uniqueness of the Earth-Moon system and how it contributes to a mild climate, promoting ecological diversity the more I doubt it.

It may be that the relative plenitude of the metals in our crust was due to the collision we had with another planet, forcing the metals from the inner core to the surface. Other planets may have metal in them, but nothing so close to the surface, so it would be impossible to mine them.

So now we have the requirement for a planetary collision in addition to the need for things, such as a gas giant like Jupiter to mop up some of the stray bodies that might collide with us (Shoemaker-Levy comet), and a large moon to stabilize tides, a vast ocean, and on and on.

When you add in your synchronicity factor that lends even more complexity to the equation. Good point.

What I keep coming back to is the idea that it would be hard to devise a better method of isolation than we have here. Vast distances, hard vacuum, intense radiation. It's as though "the creator" () designed the system to keep us apart. (kidding).

Yeti,

I don't think SETI will ever confirm any extra-terrestial signals. It's not in the best interest of the "powers that be". Why would they turn against the government and make them look like fools

SETI may officially be a corporate sponsored research group but don't forget they were initially part of NASA before NASA decided it was too much of a burden to its budget. The corporate military/industrial elite also stand to lose by disclosure and I bet the government still has a huge influence in SETI!

If their was to be disclosure than the black budget would be severly compromised and congress would restrain DOD budget for these deep black projects. Its the last thing they need!

Originally posted by SocialistAgenda
I just edited my previous post and I apologize if it comes out too "strong"!
My intention is not to insult anyone but rather to blame the "system" as I and everyone at some point either clinged or still cling to those views. Indeed it takes some research and open mindness to change one's views as the system(including all the religious systems) go out of their way to keep the status quo!

Again, I apologize if I offended anyone but that was not my initial intention.

Regards

No offense taken. Bear in mind that there's a difference between people who take an arrogant 'Earth-centered' view of the Universe claiming we are alone in the galaxy because we are 'Special', and someone who thinks that the conditions for sentient life are extremely rare and specific.

Let's take an example.

Say you have the most marvelous aquarium ever invented. Self-sustaining. Full of a large diversity of fish and plant life.

What is the possibility that they could evolve, build ships and fly to the moon?

Even if you give them a billion years, it's almost laughable to suggest that they could do so. After all it's just an aquarium that someone made - though a very advanced one.

Well, in many ways, we are the same. We are in a 'biosphere', and we are incredibly smart, but incredibly fragile. And we're incredibly lucky.

Given all that, let's say it takes 50-100 years to get to the Moon again. I don't think our resources or economy will last long enough to sustain much beyond that. It may be that to do so requires a much larger planet, though of similar type (largely aquatic).

Who knows. I'm not saying it's impossible that there is other sentient life, (let alone space-faring), just that it's very, very improbable, given the little we know about what it takes to get there. (think about the Sim-City, or the old Starflight EA game).

Thanks for your input.