most people seems to think that aliens would be hostile. why?

From a purely logical perspective, what are the odds that we are alone in a universe with trillions of planets and stars? I would say almost zero!
Thats why my belief system is so strong not to mention all the sightings, mutilations, crop circles, abductions, government cover-ups and our unnaturally fast technological advancements.

Think about it! The only reason I was apologetic was cause I don't want to get banned or lose points! My belief system is too strong to be swayed by ignorance!

Socialist Agenda,

you think its ignorant to think we are not being visited by ETs in spaceships?

Other intelligence somewhere in the universe is very likely if you think earth is not special. But the laws of physics as we understand them make it impossible to travel to other stars in a decent time frame. (our lifetime)

e.g mathematics has laws one of those is you cant divide by zero. If you do you end up with zero evrytime. Saying we will be able to travel faster than light in the future is like saying "in the future we will be able to divide by zero!" -

I think science fiction has a big role in peoples perception that we will eventually become a society that zips about the galaxy like in star trek. Im not buying it yet, sorry

i dont see how ETs can break the laws of physics as we know them so that puts them in the same boat. Stuck in their own solar system like us



p.s if SETI found a signal you would definitley here about it! plz dont tar them with the conspiracy/coverup brush it offends me


[edit on 28-2-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
We might have some of their technology in New Mexico with the
help of Von Braun.

Oh yes but "might" is the wrong word. If your not worried about accessing a federal computer that WILL track you, check out the LANL archives Tesla...

Unless the war machine was updated in Antarctica.

Gonna have to go with a big YES on that one... seeing as they just developed a way of hard packing snow on the ice to allow the huge c-5 galaxies to land there and not fall through the ice....

Ummm just why do they need such huge transports for such a small facility? Whys is NASA and ESA training people there? Maybe for off world bases? Why is there such a huge cleanup operation going on from Navy and Military waste accumulated since 1956? Contaminated soil, machinery being dynamited through the ice to sink to the ocean floor?

Nah nothing going on... the Penguins know but they are happy dancing, and are not talking
THE ANTARCTICA CONNECTION

Originally posted by yeti101to find a civilization thats within hearing distance thats exists exactly now- like us- may be more of a problem.

The problem with SETI listening is they do not have the right tools... We are assuming that there would be radio type "chatter" but considering the speed of light... all radio and tv broadcasts that have left this planet since radio was invented haven't even reached very far into our own galaxy.
Its been a little over a hundred years since rdio was invented... seems our buddy Tesla gets the kudos for that as well as lighting up the world

Radio by Tesla

The point is if you have a race that is advanced enough to be able to warp space or have another faster than light method of travel, they would also need a different form of communication much like they have on star trek. Their newer equpment would not be on old Earth frequencies so to speak and they could be right next door and we would hear nothing.

The Earth is currently about 50 light years above the Galactic rim and moving outward... so the number of stars our radio would reach is a very small number.

The ignorance and arrogance of mankind is just amazing, to think that we out here literally on the edge of nowhere are the only "intelligent" life form.

I have heard religious people state that Aliens do not exist, because they are not mentioned in the Bible... by that same argument Dinosaurs also did not exist because they too are not mentioned in the Bile, yet I find very few Christians who doubt that Dinosaurs were real.

I hear skeptics and debunkers on ATS use the term "Deny Ignorance" a lot when attacking alternate theories. I say the same applies to skeptics. How many times in our recent history have radical scientific minds put forth a theory only to be ridiculed and ostracized by their peers, let alone the public... only to be proven right in the end.

NASA recently announced that the laws of physics need to be rewritten based on results of the tether incident aboard STS-75

The evidence of Alien contact is all around us... albeit difficult to sort the real from the hoax, sometimes deliberately so...

Skeptics scream.."If its true, why don't insiders come forward..." Yet when they do(ignoring the fact that they face treason charges or worse) come forward and speak out, what happens? A barrage of viscous and iinsulting personal attacks. You can see it here at ATS... most times it comes down to attacking the speaker, not the content.

Main stream media makes those that come forward out to be kooks. Seems to me with all that going around, why would any self respecting Alien even want to come out?

Humans are in kindergarten... if we survive long enough to grow up we might actually find out what's really going on...

I doubt it though...

BTW I talked to several Muslim friends... seems the Quaran doesn't have a problem with Aliens... they just believe Allah rules them all... And the Eastern religions... well we all know the Sanskrit texts... Vimannas, War of the Gods... etc and the Tibetans are remote channeling Aliens as we speak. They even recently stated this publically... that the Aliens will come to our aid before its too late, sometime between 2008 and 2012...

Now this is the first time they have spoken out publically... The Tibetans are masters at channeling... Them I believe

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by yeti101to find a civilization thats within hearing distance thats exists exactly now- like us- may be more of a problem.

The problem with SETI listening is they do not have the right tools... We are assuming that there would be radio type "chatter" but considering the speed of light... all radio and tv broadcasts that have left this planet since radio was invented haven't even reached very far into our own galaxy.
Its been a little over a hundred years since rdio was invented... seems our buddy Tesla gets the kudos for that as well as lighting up the world

That is not what SETI assumes. Most of the searches have been for a deliberately transmitted signal, not for any sort of incidental chatter.

Originally posted by disownedsky

That is not what SETI assumes. Most of the searches have been for a deliberately transmitted signal, not for any sort of incidental chatter.

And what frequencies are they watching?

I wonder if they ever thought of looking for "incidental chatter" close to Earth orbit instead of way out there... Maybe they might catch some local area visitors asking for directions.

From a human perspective, which technologically advanced religious capitalistic human being would pass up a chance to exploit a primitive intelligent / non-intelligent lifeform found on another planet...... .

If alien visitors do show up openly on Earth at this time, they are either very naive, confident of the technological superiourity, sucidal, or planning to decieve or exploit the child like human beings. Maybe all of the above and more....

The wise ones would probably wait until the human race becomes more mature in their thinking.... which could be never.....

Would you visit planet Earth if you thought Bush was the smartest that the human race has to offer......

[edit on 1-3-2007 by ixiy]

If I may,
Imagine if you will a large pack of seals sunning themselves on a nice rocky beach somewhere near Antarctica or South Amercia. Everything is ok, there's fish, theres sun and there are members of the opposite sex to propagate with. (These animals are smart but nowhere near capable of the technology humans have)
They have never encountered man and their only predators are polar bears (Too cold for sharks?) and killer whales. Life is great. (This represents us now)
Then a steam powered whaling ship chugs by. The seals thing WTF is that? A Whale Flying? (The Steamship and sailors are UFO's unidentified floating object)
After a few hours a lone man turns up with a bucket full of fish. The seals think WTF is that 2 legged pink thing, I can't see it because all I wan't is fish. They are very wary but after a few hours they see it as routine.
Then the seal says "Hey look, more pink things, maybe they all have fish. ARRRRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH What's with the big barbed stick through the eye, what did he just say? Your gonna cut my EFFING SKIN OFF!!??? You bastards!!!!

Todays lesson? I hope they are not like we were in the early 1900's, as the seal population was driven to the verge of extinction.

Chew nice and slowly so's ya don't choke - old granma saying

Sorry if I didn't clarify but the free fish in our case ins technology, keep the general public mesmarised by the apparent surge in technolgy.

ie Old people looking at MP3 players.

The ignorance and arrogance of mankind is just amazing, to think that we out here literally on the edge of nowhere are the only "intelligent" life form.

As I mentioned in another thread, it's not ignorance or arrogance that the skeptics are displaying. It's the 'believers' who fail to understand basic psychology (old hag syndrome, hoaxing, deception), medicine (temporal lobe brain tumors), and physics. In addition the See-I-Aye has admitted that many of the sightings were tracked and that the majority were our own stealth test flights.

Those who talk about religion being against belief in aliens might qualify as ignorant and those who think the Earth is 'special' in a religious sense might qualify as 'arrogant'.

Consider that you see a light in the sky, hovering, moving slowly, or in daylight being UFO-saucer-shaped. Do you immediately take the ET-hypothesis as the cause, or do you realize that we actually have craft that can look and move like a classic UFO? (Stealth Blimp, F-117, new UAV craft)

Consider the difficulties of space travel, that we live in a gravity well, are surrounded by belts of hard radiation, and a near vacuum, separated by immense distances. That means for all practical purposes, species are going to be planet bound.

Look up the Drake Equation and then add the following terms - frequency of periodic extinctions - planetary resources - need for a hospitable climate - duration of social and economic systems - need for a large moon (to scavenge asteroids and provide for stable climate) - need for the world to be largely aquatic - need for the world to be a certain dimension (too big and the gravity well is too strong to overcome - too small and the resources will be too limited)...and a few other terms we may not have considered. When you recalculate, you may discover just how unlikely that it is that other sentient, carbon-based life forms there are in any one Galaxy.

Thus the existence of space-faring aliens is going to be practically zero. The existence of intelligent life elsewhere is going to be very rare, imo, on the order of one species per galaxy. We are a lucky accident. Nothing arrogant about it. Just the facts.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but given what we know about the laws of physics and the requirements for intelligence to evolve, it's very improbable.
In fact, so much so, that it' behooves us to search for the terrestrial explanations for the phenomenon we see, and resist the urge to blame a light in the sky on an alien presence.

[edit on 1-3-2007 by Badge01]

Has'nt that nazi UFO stuff been proven to be bunk put forth by revisionist pseudo historians? (No offence intended, but I was interested by the initial claims) This story has a lot of reproduced crap from dodgy websites involved. If
you had anything firm as far as proof goes I'd love a U2U. Maybe I may be swayed? (BTW I've read nearly everything on the net about it, would love to find out it aint bunk)

Originally posted by Badge01
Consider the difficulties of space travel, that we live in a gravity well, are surrounded by belts of hard radiation, and a near vacuum, separated by immense distances. That means for all practical purposes, species are going to be planet bound.
[edit on 1-3-2007 by Badge01]

Consider the vast distance one has to cross over an ocean to get to another continent.

oh wait, we've done that.

Consider the power, weight and speed need to get a vehicle with a human being in it to fly.

oh wait, we've done that.

Consider that space is mostly vacum, no living creature can go there.

oh wait, we've done that.

Consider the vast distances between one solar system to another, "surrounded by belts of hard radiation, and a near vacuum, separated by immense distances. That means for all practical purposes, species are going to be planet bound."


Yup,good point, absolutely impossible. I guess we should give up now, if human beings can't figure this out, no other intelligent lifeforms out there will be able to do it either.... cause everybody knows that human beings are the smartest beings in the universe.....

Looks like all intelligant life forms are all stuck on their home planets.... No where to go.... let's get back to killing one another.

[edit on 1-3-2007 by ixiy]

Wow! There are a lot of scientists here that believe warp speed travel and breaking the light barrier is impossible. I suggest you check some unconventional sites out so you can broaden your horizon. Read some ufo and antigravity propulsion books! You just might amaze yourselfs!

Yes, there are a lot of variables that must be considered and indeed intelligent life is rather scarce, however, with trillions of planets and stars and millions or billions of galaxies that still could amount to an enormous amount!

By the way, extra-terrestial visitation is not a new concept by any means. Columbus had recorded "strange behavior" in the bermuda triangle many centuries ago. The old testament vaguely hints to ufos and aliens. There are hieroglyphics in Egypt that point to them and even carvings in old and recently discovered prehistoric caves. Look around you and DENY IGNORANCE!

In conclusion and to answer a previous poster...Yes I think people who are blind to reality REALLY ARE IGNORANT, but it is not their fault it is the Status Quo which hinders progress!

[edit on 1-3-2007 by SocialistAgenda]

Originally posted by SocialistAgenda
Wow! There are a lot of scientists here that believe warp speed travel and breaking the light barrier is impossible. I suggest you check some unconventional sites out so you can broaden your horizon. Read some ufo and antigravity propulsion books! You just might amaze yourselfs!

Why do you assume that those with a scientific bias have not read the popular UFO and AG books and sites. I've been reading about them ever since Jack Sarfatti popped his head up on Usenet.

I know what's generally possible and what's likely to be just fantasy - which is what most of the antigrav sites are - fantasy (and some fraud).

May I suggest you go to college and take some basic physics courses? I don't mean to come across as condescending here, so take this with a light spirit.

Though it's nice to fantasize, it's also good to have a background in basic science.

Yes, there are a lot of variables that must be considered and indeed intelligent life is rather scarce, however, with trillions of planets and stars and millions or billions of galaxies that still could amount to an enormous amount!

I'm not talking about intelligent life in the Universe, only our own galaxy. You do have some idea about how far apart other galaxies are, right?

I'd be prepared to stipulate that there are other sentient beings in other galaxies, but it's kind of silly to talk about because the vast distances between star within our own galaxy is dwarfed by the distances between galaxies. Parsecs vs millions of parsecs:

en.wikipedia.org...

By the way, extra-terrestial visitation is not a new concept by any means. Columbus had recorded "strange behavior" in the bermuda triangle many centuries ago. The old testament vaguely hints to ufos and aliens. There are hieroglyphics in Egypt that point to them and even carvings in old and recently discovered prehistoric caves. Look around you and DENY IGNORANCE!

It's pretty much been proven that the hieroglyphs and Mayan glyphs have been misinterpreted by some pro-Von Daniken types. What was thought to be a helicopter was actually a glyph on top of an older one, giving that impression. The Bible does seem to have some 'alien' references and those are interesting, but not extremely compelling. The Vedas also have substantial reference to what might be termed gods and aliens:

netscientia.com...

Again, interesting puzzling and mysterious. But it's no reason to jump right to extraterrestrial visitation as the explanation for lights in the sky and people with bizarre stories that mirror the popular culture (dwarfs, leprechauns, fairies in the 1800s to aliens in the 20th century)

In conclusion and to answer a previous poster...Yes I think people who are blind to reality REALLY ARE IGNORANT, but it is not their fault it is the Status Quo which hinders progress!
[edit on 1-3-2007 by SocialistAgenda]

I'd suggest that those who don't have a grounding in basic science and fly off to anti-gravity sites are those who are ignorant and blind to reality.

I'm also aware of the need to think outside the box. First filter your ideas through basic science, and then beware of the traps of human psychology and perception and wishful thinking. Then if you've done all that, it's time to propose more fantastic ideas and solutions.


[edit on 1-3-2007 by Badge01]

Originally posted by DuncanIdahoGholem
Has'nt that nazi UFO stuff been proven to be bunk put forth by revisionist pseudo historians? (No offence intended, but I was interested by the initial claims) This story has a lot of reproduced crap from dodgy websites involved. If
you had anything firm as far as proof goes I'd love a U2U. Maybe I may be swayed? (BTW I've read nearly everything on the net about it, would love to find out it aint bunk)

Well not looking to sway you, but I would love to discuss it further. Just caught this post on my way out and will be busy at work the next few days.

Do me a favor and remind me. I don't know what all you have seen but I found some interesting info and hints from not so dodgy websites like LANL that hint at existing stuff, and there is one important footnote in a serious book about Atomic energy and bombs from the 50's that I just got.

[email protected]

BTW that Seal analogy was hilarious

[edit on 1-3-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Badge01
As I mentioned in another thread, it's not ignorance or arrogance that the skeptics are displaying.

There are two kinds of skeptics

1) Those that do not accept blindly and make a genuine effort to get to the truth. Those kind are not afraid to say "I was wrong.." in the light of new evidence

2) Those that work extremely hard at debunking everything and going out of their way to ridicule the person presenting the new theory. When they cannot come up with a reasonable argument... mostly because they have no true knowledge on a particular subject, they resort to personal attacks and name calling.

These type are found in scientific peer circles as well as in the public sector..
These type are the bane of mankind and our progress...

Just look at the history books..

Do I really need to make a list?

:shk:

There are also two kinds of believers...

1) Those that disbelieve "mainstream" opinion and spend lifetimes searching for the truth no matter what the ridicule and even threats to their lives..

2) Those that accept every new "fad" theory blindly because its the latest "cool" thing to do... This leads to Jones Town and Heaven's Gate type scenarios


The #2 type in both groups are a threat to humanities development into an intelligent species



[edit on 1-3-2007 by zorgon]

Hell's bells. I read the last few posts and completely lost track of the thread topic.

Hostility.

The obvious hostilities, ray guns (pew pew), death rays, large clanking machines crushing Dad's Pontiac, are easy; we'd recognize those actions pretty quick.

But keeping in mind the alien-ness of the visitors is critical.

What if we miss the hostility of an action? What if their idea of a hostile action has a time span of...a thousand years?

Originally posted by DuncanIdahoGholem
Has'nt that nazi UFO stuff been proven to be bunk put forth by revisionist pseudo historians? (No offence intended, but I was interested by the initial claims) This story has a lot of reproduced crap from dodgy websites involved. If
you had anything firm as far as proof goes I'd love a U2U. Maybe I may be swayed? (BTW I've read nearly everything on the net about it, would love to find out it aint bunk)

Nazi UFO had nowhere to go since they would not admit to using Tesla's
zero point energy. The backers found a lot of photos of round craft but
nothing else.

I don't think the FBI and CIA is going to open up the WWII and Tesla's
railroad cars full of high voltage high frequency data just because
some one has a FOIA request.

I think it still valid just because anyone can learn as much as Tesla did
before his experiments and the ETs do not teach diddles squat.

I would rather think hold that we are holding all the aces instead of some
paranormal think tank or whatever others hold by.

There is always a way to bunk when player has an empty hand.

Abduction movies like 'Fire In the Sky' concern me because if true; some aliens obviously don't give a sh!t about human life. This movie involved a survivor of abduction and he saw dead and decaying bodies while inside a spaceship. He was also in 0 gravity conditions. It would not be prudent to assume all alien forces are peaceful.

Fire In the Sky
Based on the True Story
en.wikipedia.org...

Another tragic example is the UFO case in Brazil where a girl died after being hit with a bright white beam. The whole town was also terrorized while ships were beaming lights down at them. I’m not sure if there were more casualties

I didn't read the whole thread, so my apologies if it's already been said ... but it's very simple:

People are afraid of what they don't understand. It's as simple as that. Fear can easily be masked by saying that they are hostile. Much like many stereotype certain races or religions, so too are aliens stereotyped.