US ARMY next generation tank prototype, page 2
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 27-2-2007 @ 07:45 AM by Lonestar24
Originally posted by Vekar
I am saying the electronics makes it harder to maintain.


Untrue (as a generalization). For example, one of the things that made the Leopard 2 tank so outstanding was its in-built computer interfaces to all major electronic parts. This enabled maintenance crews to locate a defect without taking half the vehicle apart - much like X-ray and CT revolutionized surgery.

Of course, if you keep adding and adding new gadgets to your tanks without integrating the older features, that makes them more maintenance-heavy. But this is a "quantitative" problem, the sheer amount of system components increases the possible sources of failures. It doesnt matter whether those components are electronic or mechanic, the keyword is complexity.

Everyone should be able to run things both full electronic and NO electronic. However this tank will not offer that option anymore.


...and shed a very disliked heritage with that. This whole "mechanic over electronics" or "cold steel over plastics" discussion irritates me. There is no point in sticking with the older technology when there is a newer technology that provides a reasonable guarantee to work-as-intended. Every Toaster nowadays has a computer inbuilt, and many special plastic compounds have more favorable material characteristics than the metal they substitute.

What was posted reminds me of the usual bickering that happens every time a "platform change" is made. Do you know how long it took for voice radio to overcome the Morse transmission, just because the top brass believed that the Morse code worked and was sufficient?

BTW, earlier you critizised the danger of one well-placed AT weapon taking out the whole crew at once. Well, the whole point of these compact one-piece cabins is to be able to maximize the protection of said cabin by reducing its size. There is a reason why almost all future tank studies explore the possibilities for crew and weight reduction.

[edit on 27/2/2007 by Lonestar24]


reply posted on 27-2-2007 @ 02:13 PM by Vekar
As usual no one understood a word I said and are accusing me of things I am not, how pathetic.
Alright my last post here since you accuse me and do not listen:

#1: PRICE
#2: 1 Anti-tank round to a cabin with 2 people in it means they will make a stronger anti-tank round that will nullify your tank ten times faster
#3: You cannot reach the ammo-reloader to do it manualy if something goes wrong in combat, you have to abandon the tank
#4: All the electronics is going to cause machine dependance, people need to be able to do two things: manual and electronic, go read my post again instead of skimming it. This tank is only electronic.
#5: The size cuts down on backup systems, being smaller it cannot hold as many unless you have to ditch something else.
#6: DU hull? I would not get in that thing if my life depended on it, radioactive tanks... hmm
#7: maintance, think about it, all those computers are not going to be easy to maintain, the technology is not here, even plugging in a laptop will not help the problem in the long run
#8: production, how many factories do we have that could manage something like this?
#9: Hull, the current is 3 layers, if you keep the 3 layers on this you either have to:
1-make the hull thinner for the extra computers since the tank is half the size.
2-ditch ammo and computers so you can have a thicker hull
#10: Being able to do things manualy as well makes the tank more versital, computer crashes, no big deal, keep going.

Nuke proof tank, bull! Try and withstand a modern nuke in a tank and your but is TOAST! The heat is over 20,000F which will melt the tank and turn you to ASH! Most of what they like to boast is bull just to make it look tough.

All your accusations against me are wrong. Also your rather narrow minded about what I said, you keep taking the "for or against" approach and I was pointing out my first oppinion then also stating reasons for liking it and NOT liking it. Anyway you can go on with your little rants now, I made my points which stand, case closed.


reply posted on 27-2-2007 @ 03:35 PM by Lonestar24
Originally posted by Vekar
As usual no one understood a word I said and are accusing me of things I am not, how pathetic.
Alright my last post here since you accuse me and do not listen:


Noone so far accused you of anything, its your personal choice to be offended by what I would call valid criticism. Especially since many of your points have obvious flaws.

#1: PRICE

So? A new system costs more money than a 30 year old product, which in its time cost more than ITS predecessor. Big deal.

#2: 1 Anti-tank round to a cabin with 2 people in it means they will make a stronger anti-tank round that will nullify your tank ten times faster

And how exactly would a "traditional" tank with the aforementioned negative characteristics of many crew members be better against such a development?

#3: You cannot reach the ammo-reloader to do it manualy if something goes wrong in combat, you have to abandon the tank

Similarly you cant reload the gun when something happens to the human reloader (which may include something as simple as him banging his head during an emergency brake). And one can just retreat, you dont have to abandon the whole vehicle.

#4: All the electronics is going to cause machine dependance, people need to be able to do two things: manual and electronic, go read my post again instead of skimming it. This tank is only electronic.

A tank already is completely machine dependent. No tank whose important subsystems have a failure is still in battleworthy condition. Try turning that heavy MBT turret with the hand pump, its not something one should do. Thats why all vital systems have multiple redundancy. I agree that a manual control is a helpful backup. But I also say that a backup can be electromechanical as well.


#5: The size cuts down on backup systems, being smaller it cannot hold as many unless you have to ditch something else.

Now thats a gross generalization. Or do you have the blueprints of such a new tank prototype?

#7: maintance, think about it, all those computers are not going to be easy to maintain, the technology is not here, even plugging in a laptop will not help the problem in the long run


You accuse people of just skimming your post while you apparently dont read well yourself. Of course a computerized system is easier to maintain because of such nifty things as self-diagnosis (that does NOT say they are failuire-proof). The difference however is that to solve a software error, you only need that laptop and not 100kg worth of specialized tools; and if the computer breaks you just swap out standardized modules.

#9: Hull, the current is 3 layers, if you keep the 3 layers on this you either have to:
1-make the hull thinner for the extra computers since the tank is half the size.
2-ditch ammo and computers so you can have a thicker hull


Again this unfounded size comparison. I wonder where you have the impression from that a computer has to be the size of a car?

#10: Being able to do things manualy as well makes the tank more versital, computer crashes, no big deal, keep going.


No, you don´t keep going, you retreat ASAP and try to get the main systems back to work. Because when a vital system fails, you have an emergency, and you should NOT fight under emergency status. I say again, I´d like to see the commander boldly driving his tank into battle while they have to turn the turret and aim the gun manually. NOT.

Nuke proof tank, bull! Try and withstand a modern nuke in a tank and your but is TOAST! The heat is over 20,000F which will melt the tank and turn you to ASH! Most of what they like to boast is bull just to make it look tough.


Of course no tank can withstand the actual nuclear reaction. Thats why the proper term is "NBC proof", and means that the tank is able to operate in a contaminated area AFTER an attack. And thats a necessity and has been a standard feature of most armored vehicles for decades, its not something to "make it look tough".


reply posted on 28-2-2007 @ 03:24 PM by gone_wrong
Frankly, i am not impressed
This thing reminds me of the batmobile hehe. Looks pretty slick, but imo one of the main points of a tank should always be its ability to move across rough terrain. What they did was substantially sacrifice that ability for a lower profile, supposedly giving it a better chance to survive. That makes me chuckle, i mean have you seen this thing? What it gains in speed, it loses in armor. Just look at those sides and rear: they would make such juicy targets for gunners everywhere. Although i do have to give to all the electronics they crammed in that box. Sure, they might not be as reliable as good - ole mechanical controls (which remains to be proven btw), but you cannot argue with progress. Besides, im sure the tank has loads of redundancy systems anyway.
As for the plastic tank.. lol what a joke

Originally posted by toreishi
i wonder how it'll stack up against this wicked looking thing



is this already in service?


And this.. this looks friggin crazy
Thx for the post Toreishi, i never even knew about it.
For those who dont speak Russian its a highly mobile amphibious unit built on an APC shassis, that is designed to be used specifically against tanks. It can also wipe out some boats, low flying aircraft and even bunkers. Max speed is quoted at 70 km/h, and up to 50 on rough terrain. Instead of a turret you have an arm that gets a launching tube (or two). Once theyre empty, the arm hides them for reloading or transport. It carries 15 supersonic missiles which fly as far as 6 km to penetrate 1250 mm of dynamic armor The missiles can be guided simultaneously towards 2 targets by means of radar and IR systems. And yes, it was taken into service in 2004. Youre welcome)))


[edit on 28-2-2007 by gone_wrong]
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4  >>    ^^TOP^^



Nano Drones Flying in Formation
  Posted 9 days ago with 15 member flags
FPS RUSSIA
  Posted 14 days ago with 7 member flags
Spinel Thin Transparent Ceramic Armor defeats Barrett .50 Cal BMG
  Posted 13 days ago with 6 member flags
Self-steering Bullet Researched
  Posted 11 days ago with 5 member flags
Shockrounds take out three of your five senses.
  Posted 3 days ago with 5 member flags
Defective Ammunition Warning
  Posted 3 days ago with 5 member flags

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:

Anonymous hacks CIA
  Breaking Alternative News, Posted 15 hours ago, 109 replies
Free Psychic Readings
  General Chit Chat, Posted 11 hours ago, 95 replies
Hollow Earth Theory New Evidence.
  General Conspiracies, Posted 9 hours ago, 62 replies
Free will
  Philosophy and Metaphysics, Posted 13 hours ago, 50 replies