Proof that our 2007 is Mayan 2012 !!, page 5


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reply posted on 26-2-2007 @ 01:13 PM by Byrd
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
There are HUNDREDS of enexplained exact matches of these between cultures prior to any contact between them.

Could you cite some? I'm passingly familiar with both cultures and can't think of any.

Even before most westerners knew where Tibet was, much less what
their situation was, and almost twenty years before the advent of the
Tibetan Diaspora, cultural affinities between these two peoples were
noted by Frank Waters in his landmark work, Book of the Hopi (1963).

Some of his work was excellent, but other sections of it were contradicted by the Hopi and by other sources. The bits on the chakras are, for example, purely his own invention. There was no such belief on this continent and it's very much at odds with the whole belief system of he Hopi.

He was also working from some very biased translations of the other material.

I suppose the Dalai Lama has no knowledge of his culture and is not an authority to confirm the links between the cultures?

The real question is: is the story true? And how much does he actually know about the Hopi?

The stone tablets of the yellow race of people are kept by the Tibetans, in Tibet. If you went straight through the Hopi Reservation to the other side of the world, you would come out in Tibet. The Tibetan word for "sun" is the Hopi word for "moon" and the Hopi word for "sun" is the Tibetan word for "moon".


I'm afraid that the website has misled you. Tibet is at around 32 00 N, 90 00 E. Arizona's Latitude and Longitude are: 31°20'N to 37°N 109°3'W to 114°50'W

So they're nearly the same latitude north (you'd get a south latitude if you went "straight down".) Arizona would also need to be at about 90 degrees West.

The Hopi word for sun is Taawa and the word for Moon is Muuyaw. Niether word exists in Tibetan, as you can check for yourself here:
www.nitartha.org...

And there really aren't any tablets.


reply posted on 26-2-2007 @ 07:27 PM by Byrd
Eine Kleine Research

I couldn't recall what I actually remembered Frank Waters writing, so this afternoon, in between appointments, I did a little research.

Waters did, indeed, report the "chakra" bit though he didn't wax eloquent over it like that website did (they went a bit beyond what he reported.) His BOOK OF THE HOPI is actually a very well researched piece (and kudos to him) done by a very thorough historian. He held no degrees, but he was an exacting researcher. His book, published in 1963, appears to be the original source for the inauthentic "Blue Star Kachina" story.

Waters is an honest researcher, and there's no doubt he's giving an account of what he was told. Many other cultural practices and details in the book ARE correct -- so what about the chakras and that kachina?

Ahh, friends, there hangs a MUCH deeper tale!

www.hopi.nsn.us...

The settling of the American continent by Europeans brought nothing but grief for the Hopi. They scrapped with the Navajo over the territory as they got pushed into a smaller and smaller area. In 1870 they were assigned "indian agents" who more often stole than helped.

In 1882 began a big push to "civilize" them and teach them the "right" religion and culture. They had to cut their hair and learn to own property, something that was completely alien to them. The Indians pushed back, but to little avail. In 1890, the Ghost Dance movement began, something that was regarded by the Whites with suspicion and anger.

By 1906, the first generation of "Christianized, civilized Hopi Indians" was at full adulthood. The "Indianized" version of he Bible and was making its way into their culture, and those who remembered the old ways hated it. There was a huge division of the tribe (that deepened interpersonal rifts and further weakened the tribe at the village of Orabi in 1906.

So Waters got the tales from those who bought into a version of Christianity (this shows in the origin tale he records, where a "great spirit" creates the universe in four days in language and structure very similar to the Christian bible.) He gets an authentic-for-1960 but NOT original spirituality version.

Background on Waters: The book was published in 1963 and was based on material gathered a bit earlier. As Marduk's source said, this was the age of the hippie, when everyone wanted to go "back to the earth" and was reading Eastern mysicism and so forth. It would develop farther in the late 60's and early 70's, but it was there to some extent. Waters was familiar with the Hindu material since he was interested in spirituality. So he was equipped to make parallels that in hindsight don't actually follow. I also believe he liked the books of mythologist Joseph Campbell and was intending to do similar work.

And that, briefly, is the story. It's a true belief of the converted and Christianized Hopi but it's not a truly authentic ancient prophecy.


reply posted on 27-2-2007 @ 04:18 AM by defcon5
Originally posted by Marduk


Actually yes, I do believe that was their intentions, the reason being that the Mayans believed in cycles, and since the previous four cycles had ended in destruction and re-birth, so will the fifth.

clearly you don't have the mental capacity to understand so I will do a little basic math for you with a little elementary anthropology
it is true that the Maya didn't believe in linear time and that they saw everything as cycles


So out of everything I have posted above, rather then just admit you shot you mouth off and cannot back it up, you instead further insult me and pick on the one part that I say up front is my opinion…

You now happily reside as the very first resident of my ignore list in the four years I have been here.
You’re a troll and I will no longer feed your obviously tremendous and fragile ego.
I am just curious how why someone would bother to even post on a site like this when they tick everyone off to the point that they all ignore you, unless collecting ignores is your goal…

Also…
Originally posted by Marduk
so you have to balance this with the credibility of their beliefs
The first world was ended by a universal deluge,
The second world was ended by a universal deluge
the third world was ended by a universal deluge

unfortunatley this is where your whole house of cards collapses into a pile of sewage and refuse
there have been no universal deluges at those dates and Homo sapiens as a species has happily lived through all of them no problem at all


Telling me these events did not happened does nothing to prove to me that the Mayans did not believe they happened, and did not believe they would happen again in the future. You see it does not effect my house of cards in the slightest, because I never said I that I believe the end will be in 2012 or not, I simply stated that I believe it was what the Mayans believed…

Ahhh…
But again this is a troll tactic, you pick and choose what it is that you want to debate based on what parts of the argument you feel you can win at, not on what was actually said. Why not go back and answer the rest of the post, or the entire posts you skipped over?

Originally posted by Marduk
the Maya did not have advanced astronimical knowledge


They did not have to in order to see a huge band of the Milky Way that stretched across the entire sky, now did they? That is why their legends are about birth canals and trees of life, and not about specific astronomical bodies besides the sun, moon, Venus, and a few others. No, they did not understand what these were, but they could still see them and attributed them to religion and the Gods.


Originally posted by Byrd
The Earth is actually in perpetual "alignment" with the center of the galaxy. What changes is that every spring equinox, the rising point of the sun comes closer to the "dark stripe" of dust in the center of our galaxy. Right now, it's just a few points off.

Yes, well maybe, thank you bird.

It’s a complex subject, and here is a link I found on were the Wiki guys were trying to debate the subject and what should go into their article: Talk: Mayan Calendar, Interesting stuff there, you should enjoy it…

I discussed this with CMDRKeenKid in chat once when I first read about it, and he kind of explained how it worked. If I recall correctly the Plane of the Ecliptic and the Galactic equator are all modern man made terms anyway, so to believe that the Mayans understood them is silly to begin with. That does not change the fact that they could see the alignments, and base their calendar on it, which they obviously did.


Anyway I am done with this thread. I stand by my original post, nothing here has shown it to be in error in anyway. Marduk has yet to show that it is flawed and is now picking on other things which I admitted were opinion when I said them. So to repeat :

The Mayan date of 2012 is based on a celestial event, and not on our current calendar. Therefore, the date of 2012 will not vary if we vary our calendar. That event is this:[img] alignment2012.com...[/img], as it appears in their sky, at their location, at that point in time.



reply posted on 27-2-2007 @ 09:08 AM by Marduk
ok we'll go through a few of your facts shall we
posted by defcon
The end of the Mayan calendar has to do with a celestial event that occurs.

it has nothing to do with a celestial event
the previous three times it ended there was a great deluge
great deluges are not celestial events


posted by defcon
So, I am waiting for you to quote a single credible site that states that the 2012 calendar end does not relate back to a celestial event of the merging of the plains of the tree of life

this is the problem
there are no credible sites that 2012 end date to the mayan calendar means anything but an end to this part of it
it is after all a quarter precessional calendar and not a prophecy machine
I can post umpteen sites that state that the end of each previous calendar resulted ina flood but as you have already ignored any reference to that provable fact I will have to assume that you have chosen to ignore it
what a trooper you are



posted by defcon
Please don’t bring in a bunch of Sumerian crap, besides derailing the thread its painfully obvious to everyone you cannot make good on your boast so far, and thus are changing the topic.

I didn't
i was merely responding to a previous poster
posted on 22-2-2007 at 05:56 AM (post id: 2973797) - single - this post
who stated

December 21st, 2012 - Modern astronomy can tell us a lot about the black and white facts of where we will be in space at that time, where our planets will be, etc. The fun thing is that the ancient Mayans and Sumerians (and some speculate thed Egyptians) knew about this long ago, and depicted the events in their carvings.

you seem to think you are the only poster anyone would bother to respond to in this topic
its all mememememememememememememe with you isn't it
posted by defcon
Can you actually not understand what is being said here, or are you playing dumb so you don’t have to agree that you were wrong in what you posted to me?
It does not mean that the Solar system is near the center of the Milky Way, it means that it is parallel with the Milky Way’s plane of the ecliptic. Meaning that we are in alignment with the center of the galaxy, not near the center of the galaxy

isn't it odd then that you contradicted your first post where quite clearly you claimed that the 2012 date
posted by defcon
The event is the Earth entering the dark rift of the Milky Way, which they knew of as the cosmic birth canal.

then you had the front to say

posted by defcon
You should really learn to think in three dimensions when you’re talking about space, not in two.

I think what you need to do is practice your face saving attempts at lying
that way you won't look so stupid when you try to claim the exact opposite of something you said two pages earlier while at the same time claiming you never said it

posted by defcon
Telling me these events did not happened does nothing to prove to me that the Mayans did not believe they happened, and did not believe they would happen again in the future. You see it does not effect my house of cards in the slightest, because I never said I that I believe the end will be in 2012 or not, I simply stated that I believe it was what the Mayans believed…

let me just check that

posted by defcon
The end of the Mayan calendar has to do with a celestial event that occurs. It has nothing to do with the date of 2012 or 2007 as they did not use the Gregorian calendar to make their calendar. So the event is scheduled to occur in December 2012 on our current calendar, and any changes in our calendar do nothing to effect that date. The event is the Earth entering the dark rift of the Milky Way, which they knew of as the cosmic birth canal.

seems you are saying that the event is something that is real
when you later claimed that they
posted by defcon
No, they did not understand what these were, but they could still see them and attributed them to religion and the Gods.

you seem a bit confused
first of all you stated that it was something that was a fact of celestial mechanics
then you claimed that was just what the Maya believed
now you are claiming that they didn't know what it was
clearly Defcon you are an ignorant poster who is making it up as you go along
luckily you have put me on the ignore list as i imagine right now you will be getting very red reading it
now please
show everyone what a liar you are again by proving that you have not put me on your ignore list and by screaming obscenities at me for showing everyone what an inconsistent fraudster you are

hilarious the steps some people will go to to prove their ignorance isn't it



reply posted on 4-3-2007 @ 11:12 PM by kroms33
Originally posted by T0by
The Mayans of Central America had a highly developed understanding of the cycles of the sun, moon and Venus, illustrated on their famous calendar. It is common knowledge that the Mayan calendar ends on the 21st December 2012, but why is this so? The Mayans worshipped the sun as the ‘first lord’ and like many ancient cultures, held ceremonies at the winter solstice, which marked the beginning of their new year and the return of the light. At the 2012 winter solstice (21st December in the Northern Hemisphere), the sun will rise through the centre of a gap in the milky way, known to the Mayans as the sacred tree. The sacred tree was both the door to the underworld and the birth canal of the cosmic mother. At dawn on 21st December 2012, the milky way galaxy, as seen from Central America, will lie across the horizon, so at sunrise the sun (first lord) will rise from the underworld, pass through this birth canal and open the cosmic sky portal. This event only occurs once every 26,000 years, and the Mayans considered it so momentous that December 2012 marked the end of human time, as they knew it and the birth of a new age. This 26,000-year period is known to Western astrologers as the great year and is divided into 12 roughly 2000-year periods known as the age of Aries, age of Pisces, age of Aquarius, etc. As the earth turns on its axis, it wobbles slightly, causing a 1º change every 72 years in the direction to which the North Pole points. The great year is the time it takes for the North Pole to complete an entire circle – approximately 26,000 years. We are currently moving from the age of Pisces to the age of Aquarius.


72.14.253.104...:SLcMiHCgAx8J:www.techinsight.com.au/clients/livingnow/%3Fp%3D120+mayan+cosmic+birth+canal&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au



At sunrise on December 21, 2012 for the first time in 26,000 years the Sun rises to conjunct the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic. This cosmic cross is considered to be an embodiment of the Sacred Tree, The Tree of Life a tree remembered in all the world's spiritual traditions. Some observers say this alignment with the heart of the galaxy in 2012 will open a channel for cosmic energy to flow through the earth, cleansing it and all that dwells upon it, raising all to a higher level of vibration.


www.water-consciousness.com...


I thought it's common knowledge that it is linked to a cosmic event? Or such that it links beyond coincidence with the specific date of their dec 21st, to the date of the cosmic event ( dec 21st )

How much they specifically went on about this event i'm not too sure. Or even at all?


THANK YOU TOBY!!!

I was debating on replying to them - and thank god I scrolled down.
Perhaps people should start researching things before they come in screaming "SHOW ME PROOF" when, scientifically - archaeologically - this is what the Mayans believed. People should not show up to forums and demand links - especially if the subject matter is commonly known.

The Mayans writing and architecture was pure mathematics - During their reign over Mexico and South America, they were more technologically advanced (mathematically and architecturally) then any European Nation. While Europe was in the troughs of the dark ages - the Mayans knew the concept of Pi - and created a pyramid that measured the solar year more precisely then our current calender.


reply posted on 22-7-2008 @ 05:15 PM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by madnessinmysoul


The mayan calendar is more acurate than nasa

Remember is not a prophecy book its a CALENDAR

It marks solstices, winters, eclipses, planetary stuff like that

what happens is it ends in 2012 (2007 arguably) so thats why people think is the end...


reply posted on 10-11-2008 @ 12:11 AM by Anonymous ATS
i dont know where you got your facts from, but i find this ''our 2007 is mayan 2012'' only slightly beyond absurd. i work with with the leading mayan archaeologists, cosmologists, and anthropologists in the world. the mayan calendar did not have the date ''2012''. as OUR date of december 21st 2012, coincides with the end of their calendar, having completed the 5th and final cycle of some 5,200 years. where upon it shall start the whole cycle again (being that they saw it as a cycle, not a timeline as we do) they never said anything about dooms day, about some ackward or amazing occurence. we assume so because their science was far more advanced than even our civilzation until this century. (as much as i love the egyptian culture more, they were never as cosmologically advanced as the mayans) and so because the date is also a winter sulstace, we theorize the significance to them. there are some good boosk about said topic, though i'd suggest you stick to the books of pure fact, and study them well.. before you buy into pseudoscience speculation.

although i do not buy into the idea of nibiru, i respect it in its theory, however... to suggest that 2007 is the mayan 2012, would insinuate either you know nothing of such topics, or the person feeding you this information has severely mistaken a lot of research.

by the way, as to one of the comments i read, i dearly hope you do not intend to translate the word from mayan to spanish to english using a modern mayan language. although we still have 30 some dialects of mayan decended languages, only 2 come even close to what was possibly spoken thousands of years ago. my father in law is a maya archaeologist as well and reads mayan glyphs (the only form of language we are CERTAIN is of the mayan civilization). its not too many who can read mayan (as we do NOT know the spoken language) if u met the glyph, well ok... but if you expect that anyone reading this should translate that because you suggest it, you're nuts.

if it werent for 2012, no one would be here talking about such a topic, and so the only information 95% of you folk will be looking up, will be on sites based on the dooms day or theoretical events of a singular date, and you will lack the importance of the other thousands of years of ancient maya culture, science, beliefs, and so forth that lead to the hypothesis behind these specific date. it's not so simple as. suddenly the topic of ''appocalypse'' comes up, and everyone's an instant expert.


reply posted on 15-11-2008 @ 06:40 PM by MCoG1980
reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I wish i had faith like that about the future. I only have to look at current world events for me to feel a little uncertain. Prohecy or not, the world is in crisis or on the very verge of. A little bird told me that the pound is about to take a sharp drop next week, enough for it to cause a rumble in the market place anyway.

What will be, will be, there is no point worrying about stuff you cannot change.






[edit on 15-11-2008 by MCoG1980]


reply posted on 15-2-2009 @ 02:20 AM by NativeAmerican
reply to post by ForceMaster


Their calendar isn't like ours. Ours is Gregorian where as their's corresponds with celestial events if I recall correctly. Therefore our calendar is entirely irrelevant in comparison to theirs. I mean this is kind of obvious.

Also someone noted the Mayans couldn't see their own downfall. Well, yeah, they weren't superheroes. Their calendar was based on cycles of celestial events. I assume there is a type of cataclysmic change (most likely a disaster) that occurs every so often based on certain alignments or perhaps the closing in of another planet on a long orbit.
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