I'm Intrepid and I'm appearently a racist.....

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
There's some kind of panel or forum on c-span right now.

State of the Black Union 2007

I was able to catch some of this last night and I was totally blown away with awe and respect for many of the people on that panel, including the woman asking the questions! It was a fantastic show!

I feel hopeful and happy again today after watching that. After feeling so down yesterday and questioning my feelings about being a "soldier of grace" and all that, I feel renewed and inspired.

I thought of starting a new thread about it, but since this one is already all over the place with about 6 different discussions going and it was originally mentioned here, I though I'd just add my response here.

Thank you HH for mentioning it.

I was particularly impressed by former Governor Wilder, Al Sharpton, Glenda Hatchett, Keith Ellison and Tim Reid. Less so with Jesse Jackson and Malika Saada Saar. But it was an inspiring, interesting, encouraging and hopeful look at the condition of black America and the direction of their future, in my opinion.

The messages that I found particularly touching were:

- that it's time for black people to stop asking and stop waiting for things to change. This is their country and they have a right to demand it be run for their interests. That's what we ALL do!
- that it's time for black youth to understand their people's history and respect and honor the suffering that their ancestors underwent for their freedom today and not to waste that effort. ("I took that beating for you")
- that it's time to (Tim Reid's words) pull up your pants and put on a belt and take responsibility for your choices.

I don't know if it will be shown again, but as others here have mentioned, it is really great and I highly recommend it. The DVD can be purchased here.

Originally posted by intrepid
I'm tired, DAMN tired of being accused of being a racist because of the colour of MY skin.

Being a middle aged white male means that I get that same garbage even though I donate my time and money to a local soup kitchen that feeds and clothes poor people of all races. There are always a few racist black people who hate white people no matter what and blame me (us) for things I (we) had nothing to do with. I just continue on with life and ignore them. They are sick in the head and full of hate.

Originally posted by ceci2006
I've endured quite a lot here. we did this all the while other posters spoke for us, verbally harassed us and dehumanized our people.

As a long time lurker I have seen no evidence of that. However, if you feel that way then why do you stay? If this website is so bad and so offensive then why do you stay? Do you like being a victim?

No one is keeping anyone at this site. Everyone is free to leave at any time. If I felt that a site was beating me then I'd be gone. The internet is full of sites to post at. This isn't the only game in town.

Originally posted by Koka
Well Gritt, maybe they were worried you may, one day, play the race card.

Nice with the Gritt thing. Sorry for spelling your name wrong. This is a large thread and I couldn't see the other posts while I was posting. Or maybe they were racist. Why is it when the tables are turned, it becomes "they thought maybe one day you'd play the race card"? No offense but that is a real pathetic answer.

As you said you had more qualifications and experience, you should have been the automatic choice, there is no way that other guy had anything that could have beaten you to that job. Oh, except the colour of his skin.

I listened to his interview and know for a fact he didn't have ANYTHING to offer but the colour of his skin.

There is always the chance they were indeed racist, so if you believed you had a case why did you not take it further?

How much of a chance does a white man have in a case against black people regarding race? Think about it. They would have laughed in my face or thought someday I would pull the race card like you automatically thought. How telling.

I care not if you feel guilt, that is your choice.

I don't feel guilt, but I do empathise what black people have gone through because I've gone through the opposite. So, yes, I do know where some people are coming from.

Hi jsobecky.

This is the problem when you skim over and cherry-pick snags of a thread, Harassment101. You don't get the whole picture.

I spent a great deal of time reading the thread. It took well over an hour.

The thing is your question is very generalised no matter the nature of the thread and it can only be addressed personally.

When you say

What exactly do blacks want from whites?

It's very broad and generalised, and it assumes that all blacks want something from all whites, and the reality is some do not, and even if they did, they may not wish it from all whites. So therefore I was trying to ascertain your specific reasoning for this.

I specifically said some here, didn't I? Once again, a result of skimming over instead of reading with comprehension.

Again I really do not feel that I skimmed. However there were 12 pages, to get through, but I do recall reading your post in it's entirety.

People here could have meant ATS, American, etc, but just to be fair and none assumptive, I asked. Based on other posters who were talking in general terms about people, and places not here, but here in this world, I just wanted to get specifics.

I just thought it was better to get things clearified, than to assume things.

I'm a White woman who's been treated with contempt by many Black women throughout my life! I grew up in the Bay Area during the civil rights movement when Blacks openly showed their hostility toward Whites. Schools were integrated, with 90 % of the Blacks being bussed from the ghettos. But even though the schools were half white, the black kids completely dominated the schools taking over sports, games, proms, dances and other social activities. Whites were not made to feel welcome and most were too cowardly to stand up for themselves. Even the teachers and staff were afraid of them. Needless to say they got away with murder.

In junior high particularly I was constantly assaulted by Black girls. They snatched my jewelry right off body. They tore my clothing trying to pull up my skirts and blouses. Scissors were waved in my face trying to snip off pieces of my long blond hair. And because I was an honor student who studied hard to get good grades, was threatened if I didn't let them copy from my work. I tried to ignore most of their actions but when one really big mean girl started threatening me with a knife my Mother went to the principle. The coward did nothing to punish the girl saying unless she stabbed me, it was my word against hers. So after I snitched on her and she swore she'd "knife" me after school, my older brother and a few of his friends made a point of escorting me home from school the rest of that year.

Did they hated me simply because I was everything they weren't. Blond, fair skinned and white. Maybe they assumed because I was white I was also rich. I wasn't.

This unwarranted discrimination still persists today. At the restaurant I work at there's a Black women who absolutely hates me claiming I'm a racist and don't give her as good of service as my White customers! I was totally shocked by her accusations because I've never been anything but friendly to her and give all my customers equally good service.

I just don't get it. Could it still be the blond thing?

Originally posted by Bad Dog
There are always a few racist black people who hate white people no matter what and blame me (us) for things I (we) had nothing to do with. I just continue on with life and ignore them. They are sick in the head and full of hate.

I totally agree and that's one thing I've realized over the course of this thread.

There are also always a few racist white people who hate black people no matter what. There are jerks in every segment of society.

But thankfully, there are also wonderful, insightful, generous and caring people across the board as well.

Being married to a "middle aged white men" I know exactly what you mean. It seems like they are the last acceptable prejudice.

If this website is so bad and so offensive then why do you stay?

I have seen plenty of people (myself included) try to hold Ceci accountable, try to get straight answers and try to actually tell her a thing or two. She considers this "attacks". But as you can see from her post, what is foremest in her mind is how "badly" others have treated her. If you were to read through those "75 pages of attacks on her character" (or perhaps you have), you'd see that she did every bit as much attacking as anyone else did, perhaps even twice as much.

Ceci has a message. An important message. I believe she also has the drive and strong desire to get it out there. She has a purpose.

But yeah, if I felt I was withstanding attacks on my character from the board at large, I'd leave. If I felt it was just one member, I'd certainly do something about it.

I know I have in the past.

Originally posted by Griff
Nice with the Gritt thing. Sorry for spelling your name wrong. This is a large thread and I couldn't see the other posts while I was posting. Or maybe they were racist.

Why is it when the tables are turned, it becomes "they thought maybe one day you'd play the race card"? No offense but that is a real pathetic answer.

None taken. its just one possible answer amongst numerous other possible answers only one of which is "they were racist".

I listened to his interview and know for a fact he didn't have ANYTHING to offer but the colour of his skin.

I won't even ask how you heard his interview.

No offence, but I'm sure you believe you were better, I'm better at Poker than my mate, but for some reason he keeps beating me.

How much of a chance does a white man have in a case against black people regarding race? Think about it. They would have laughed in my face or thought someday I would pull the race card like you automatically thought. How telling.

All things being equal, the same chance a black guy would have against white people.

The point is, you didn't play the race card and I was more than aware of this when I stated my initial answer. How telling.

I don't feel guilt, but I do empathise what black people have gone through because I've gone through the opposite. So, yes, I do know where some people are coming from.

I'm sure you mean "same" as opposed to "opposite".

Originally posted by dollmonster
Did they hated me simply because I was everything they weren't. Blond, fair skinned and white.

Depends, do you think they were jealous?

Originally posted by dollmonster
I'm a White woman who's been treated with contempt by many Black women throughout my life! I grew up in the Bay Area during the civil rights movement when Blacks openly showed their hostility toward Whites. Schools were integrated, with 90 % of the Blacks being bussed from the ghettos. But even though the schools were half white, the black kids completely dominated the schools taking over sports, games, proms, dances and other social activities. Whites were not made to feel welcome and most were too cowardly to stand up for themselves. Even the teachers and staff were afraid of them. Needless to say they got away with murder.

And I thought San Fran was so tolerant! But then again, you did have the Panthers and SLA out there...


Unfortunately, this is what happens when forced busing occurs. Sociologists are often honest in their intentions, but totally clueless in their "solutions". They don't see the resentment that is sure to follow when they do things like that.

Did they hated me simply because I was everything they weren't. Blond, fair skinned and white. Maybe they assumed because I was white I was also rich. I wasn't.

Probably just because you were different. There were some interesting posts in another thread about how black girls straightened their hair, used various bleaching techniques, etc., to appear less black. The impression I got from the discussion was that the darkest-skinned black girls were often the unhappiest. If I can find the posts, I'll put a link here.

I just don't get it. Could it still be the blond thing?

I have 4 blonde-haired, blue-eyed sisters. They've never been accused of racism, as far as I know. Of course, they are not shrinking violets. But I'm sure they've been the objects of envy.

I wouldn't worry about that customer. In fact, I'd go out of my way to treat her with extra special kindness. If she persists, then it's her problem.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I have seen plenty of people (myself included) try to hold Ceci accountable, try to get straight answers and try to actually tell her a thing or two. She considers this "attacks". But as you can see from her post, what is foremest in her mind is how "badly" others have treated her. If you were to read through those "75 pages of attacks on her character" (or perhaps you have), you'd see that she did every bit as much attacking as anyone else did, perhaps even twice as much.

There you go again speaking for me. This is what I mean.

I tried my best to remain polite until the certain members had gotten nasty. And when they did, I fought back.

It is very natural to defend one's self, especially when there is a cabal of people insulting everything about one's character and background.

Did you expect me not to--especially against other posters who personally attacked me?

I do not think that insulting everything from my family to my education was being "held accountable."

And the nasty attacks continued after four mods told you all to stop. Are you all all of a sudden immune from the mods' admonishments? Ultimately, it proved you and the others couldn't follow what the mods told you. You just went right on "doing what you wanted to do" without a sense of decency or conscience.

Now that's what I mean about not having a conscience.

Ceci has a message. An important message. I believe she also has the drive and strong desire to get it out there. She has a purpose.

This is paternalism right here. :shk:

Please stop being "holier than thou". You were/are just as nasty in your personal attacks along with the others.

FWIW, you put it out there. You asked what about your conscience I felt was lacking. And I replied.

You asked. I answered. I'm just sorry that you didn't get the answer you'd like.

But that's one area that you can't control. You'll just have to take it.

But in the future, stop speaking "for me." I don't need your endorsement about having a good message and what I should do with it. Focus on your own message. Take responsibility there.






[edit on 11-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Thank you for admitting it. Now I know what exactly went down. And I have the evidence.

I didn't admit anything. This is evidence of absolutely nothing. I have had nothing whatsoever to do with anything that has happened in the past to you on this board. I don't have the power to affect what happens to members. I am a member, just like you.

Whatever happens to you on this board is a direct result of your behavior here.

Please. I am not surprised what lengths you might have gone to "take care of things".

You just had to just continue playing "holier than thou".

Well, suddenly it would have to come out one way or another. I'm glad you said it.

It is the first straight answer you've told in a long time.




[edit on 11-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Whatever happens to you on this board is a direct result of your behavior here.

Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself. Whatever you said was exactly a direct result of your behavior.

You mangled my texts. You twisted my words. You put words in my mouth. You retreated into your mode of soliciting everyone's pity.

After all, you didn't expect everyone to agree with you, did you?

Just where are those 98 per-cent of black members backing you up? The silence is indeed deafening.

Nevertheless, you shouldn't be so outraged over what happened to you if you really believe in what you said.

Just stop with the paternalism. Please.

Originally posted by intrepid
I'm tired, DAMN tired of being accused of being a racist because of the colour of MY skin.

Ditto. Get it right. I'm racist (and sexist) because I'm racist (and sexist), not because I'm a white male.

I don't think BH needs any support on this one, but I can't help but ask, Where is she attacking you or anyone else? It seems to me that she is voicing her opinion on the matter, which happens to differ from yours. This difference of opinion, as usual, comes as confrontational or a personal attack. Why? A few posts thus far in this thread were highly unnecessary, but for the most part I am impressed with the manner in which our membership has handled themselves. This is a very sensitive subject, and I think we've done quite well. But after reading a few pages, it seems that different members have become quite irate that other members are attacking them. I would go back and reread, and still come up with nothing.

I fail to see these blatant attacks. I just see the victim card being played time and time again.

Some members are quite effective when it comes to creating smoke screens in an attempt to avoid some issues. No sarcasm intended, it is very impressive.

[edit on 11-2-2007 by chissler]

Now this specific phenomenon is called Transference.

It is the psychological concept of placing blame on others for ones own actions. This is particularly effective when combined with the previously discussed "Inference."

This occurs when the individual responds to some outside influence, say a question, with nothing substantial, in essence avoiding the question. This can be for any number of reason, usually because something in the question caused the individual some discomfort. After posting some completely irrelevant and abstract ethereal nonsense, the individual then proceeds to blame the other poster for doing exactly that which they have just done.

This psychological concept can be frustrating for those that are attempting to obtain answers in a debate; especially as the "Transferring" individual usually formulates the subject matter in such a way as to cause confusion instead of clarity. When one comes into a debate, one expects clarity and intellectual comments, it can be disorientating to the unprepared subject.

One can identify this psychological situation in instances where a subject constantly refers to something that may or may not have happened at sometime in the past. Usually when it pertains to the subject at hand. Unable to formulate a response to a question, the subject will resort to Transferring guilt by Inferring to a past episode. Even if the past episode was also fabricated by the subject.
The longer the time frame the subject reverts to, the more substantial the subject tends to believe their complaint is.

Think of this in simplistic terminology.

It is very simply the "No I did not, you did" syndrome. A psychosis if you will of the inability to either debate intellectually, or to take responsibility for ones own short comings.

This is specifically prevalent in juvenile settings. Those without the maturity to understand their personal fallibility and acceptance of deficiency.

Semper

Originally posted by ceci2006
I have never blamed or told anyone that they have guilt as a result of discussing my experiences. However, when acts of racism (i.e. institutional racism) are discussed (especially by people of color), these issues get glossed over. In fact, some willfully ignore it or make fun of it. In that way, the persons who do so are not displaying empathy or a conscience. They are not even displaying compassion.

That is your perception, not reality. I haven't seen this at all. BTW, you might want to lay off the "Oh, poor me" thing. The reader sees what's being written and with the exception of a few accolites of yours NO ONE is buying it.

The bottom line is that these events were never meant to place guilt on anyone. These events were only used to get people to understand that racism occurs so they can remember, discuss and work with solving them. Furthermore, it is hoped that by remembrance these events would not happen again.


[edit on 11-2-2007 by ceci2006]

THIS is the answer to my questions? How REDUNDANT. Everyone knows that racism exists. As to the bold, thanks for making MY point. "...remembrance these events........." like I said, the sins of the father, grandfather.............

BTW, don't EVER say I'm twisting your words, I'm going VERBATIM.

Originally posted by ceci2006
I tried my best to remain polite until the certain members had gotten nasty.

Wrong. Just about everyone on that 75 page thread agrees ... YOU started 'the nasty' ... you continued 'the nasty' ... and now you are left almost by yourself on it in your own private hyper-reality echo-chamber.

Originally posted by ceci2006
You mangled my texts. You twisted my words. You put words in my mouth. You retreated into your mode of soliciting everyone's pity.

OMG .. that's 100% what YOU do!!

Originally posted by Bad Dog
If this website is so bad and so offensive then why do you stay? Do you like being a victim?

Ceci .. answer Bad Dog's question. If it is sooooooooooo bad here, why are you still here?

Originally posted by intrepid
THIS is the answer to my questions?

As far as I'm concerned your question was NOT answered. Or perhaps there wasn't really an answer coming .. just a bunch of build up to nothing???

Edited ONCE to fix a sentence.



[edit on 2/11/2007 by FlyersFan]

This is the first post I'm making in this thread. I haven't read much of the earlier posts, but I have a few things to say... I'm sick and tired of black people using the phrase: "just because I'm black." when it's not needed. Say that to people who are obviously members of the kkk, neo-nazi's etc... Don't say it to the regular non-ebony Joe??

And btw... While I'm at it. Being so agressive and quick to jump to conclusions that you're being discriminated based on your race will never get you anywhere. And it never has.... Stop focusing on race issues, and focus on harmony and empathy among people and you'll get more of it. Everyone always gets exactly what they constantly focus on. That's how the universe works. Focus on racists, and you'll get more of that. You'll even start looking for racism in people who aren't racist. Cut it out. You're only influencing your own life to your detriment by doing that. Cut the victim mentality and start taking control of your own thoughts and feelings about your life and relationships with others.

You are creators, you are freakin Gods... Learn to think like one.





[edit on 11-2-2007 by TheBandit795]

Oh, trust me becky, you DO indeed try to hide behind your mask. Problem is, even your mask gives you away.

It doesn't "piss me off" either, as you say. I live in Texas; I've met PLENTY of people like you. The ones who were worse than you, albeit slightly, met the bottom of my Nikes quick (Ludacris reference there). But, I'll give them props; they were at least brave enough to flat out tell me what they were thinking. I guess it's the ATS rules that keep you from doing that, though...

But thanks, though. You have NO IDEA how beneficial you've been to my views on how y'all see us.

To those of you who are not like becky, don't think I'm lumping y'all all together with this member. I know FIRSTHAND that y'all are not all like that.