What would you say about a White History Month?

I think the root of the question lies in purpose.

It is fine to celebrate your heritage, whatever it is. It's not like minorities have a monopoly on cultural observances. I get St. Patty's day, and for that matter I sometimes shoulder in on cinco de mayo just because I like the food, despite my total lack of Mexican heritage.


So why do some groups get federal observances, whole months even? We can't give everybody a month obviously, we can't teach every culture in our schools (in fact I believe that to a certain extent our schools need to move away from pet interests and get back to basics, then we can worry about more specific histories at higher levels when the students can really appreciate the content). But even though we can't recognize everyone in such a large way, we choose to do so for certain groups. What warrants this?

The answer is that there are sometimes problems to solve and it is hoped that awareness will play a role in the solution. I'm believe in the idea that when you come to America you should integrate and be an American first, but that is not only in your own perception, but in the perception of others as well. That's what awareness months etc are intended to provide. When a particular group's integration is not being widely accepted in perception and in action, then we need to change that perception so that we can remain one nation.

Black History month, to the extent that it serves to highlight the American-heritage of African Americans, can be extremely valuable to the purpose of national unity. We need to expunge the fiction, which still exists in some circles, that African-Americans are outsiders who came here under unfortunate circumstances but then after that condition ceased to exist continued to remain wholly seperate without contributing and present a division within our society. I've even heard some go so far as to say that they aren't real Americans. That kind of ignorance is dangerous and should be countered with the facts. The facts are that they have had a profound impact on our culture, on average can trace their American heritage back further than whites, and (hopefully this seems to be a ridiculous statement of the obvious) are equal in potential to anyone else.

In so many words, I think the function of Black History month is to defeat the kind of social ignorance upon which the seemingly minor everyday offenses which breed tension and ultimately civil conflict are based, and in that much I don't think it's a bad thing.

I'm not sure that there is such a problem facing whites that needs solving. That's not to say we can't celebrate our history, but that's why there isn't a federal observance probably.

Vagabond, thank you for saying that so eloquently. Because of your candor, I am giving you a WATS.

You have voted The Vagabond for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Your posts have always brought common sense into a debate. And I laud you for your words because it points to the heart of the issue.

[edit on 7-2-2007 by ceci2006]

I think the function of Black History month is to defeat the kind of social ignorance upon which the seemingly minor everyday offenses which breed tension and ultimately civil conflict are based, and in that much I don't think it's a bad thing.

The Vagabond

When you give only certain people in the playground candy, it doesn't breed acceptance it just breeds jealousy. Especially if you are giving these children the candy for something the others grandparents did.

To ultimately be treated equal, you must actually be treated equal

Except for women they are they only ones we should be giving candy.
Sorry my girlfriend made me write that

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Royal76]

Originally posted by Royal76
When you give only certain people in the playground candy, it doesn't breed acceptance it just breeds jealousy.

So in this playground metaphor, is it safe to say that Whitey is assuming the roll of the playground bully?

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Koka]

Because Whitey is not the school bully he's been PCed. Its an analogy of us all. Whitey's great grandfather was the school bully. Is it right to hold his great grandson accountable for his failings

I guess its ok, say in the United Kingdom to base everything on who your parents were. Say making the Son and now Duke of what ever automatic Captain in the Navy persay. But in the United States we use a system of basing a persons worth, on their merit, not what their parents did. This is the concept at least, it may not work out that way but its what we are suppost to stand for.

Originally posted by Tea

- Native American Indian tribes and cultures (differences in them, etc)

Caucasoid or Mongoloid (The jury is still out.)

They are quite clearly not Causasian....

- Now they are on Ancient Egypt (Africa/Mediteranean)

DNA has proven the Egyptians were originally from Greece, so . . . Caucasoid

Your confused. The Ptolemic Pharoahs, such as Cleopatra, were descending from Greeks that conquered Egypt with Alexander the Great. The people are clearly not causasian and the Pharoahs before that were the same as the natives.

Thus endeth the lesson.....

Originally posted by Royal76
Because Whitey is not the school bully he's been PCed. Its an analogy of us all. Whitey's great grandfather was the school bully. Is it right to hold his great grandson accountable for his failings

I guess its ok, say in the United Kingdom to base everything on who your parents were. Say making the Son and now Duke of what ever automatic Captain in the Navy persay. But in the United States we use a system of basing a persons worth, on their merit, not what their parents did. This is the concept at least, it may not work out that way but its what we are suppost to stand for.

I think you are referring to Hereditary peers, a controversial area in British politics. Giving that these individuals, and often their forefathers, have neither earned or have the knowledge to be in those roles. Hardly representative of the UK, but unfortunately this thread will sway toward a NWO thread if we get into it. It doesn't apply to the Armed Forces.

As for that not occuring in the US, I would beg to differ. I don't think GWB would be in office had his dad not been there already.

May I ask why you keep reffering to the UK?

Is it because I am from the UK and you have run out of arguments relating to this thread's topic?

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Koka]

BHM is for honouring accomplishments of the Black community. Why do we need a "month" for that? Why can we not do that any given day of the year? Why isolate these accomplishments to ANY month?

As far as a "Whatever History Month" goes, has anyone given any thought that this is yet ANOTHER way to separate us? Carlin has said that the power people use whatever they can, race, sexual orientation, etc. to keep us arguing amongst ourselves, while THEY keep going to the bank. The reaction in this thread leads me to believe that there might be some truth in his words.

First words of wisdom from Cosby(I think they are) and now Carlin. Maybe we should let the comedians run the country, they seem to have a good bead on society.

Originally posted by intrepid
As far as a "Whatever History Month" goes, has anyone given any thought that this is yet ANOTHER way to separate us?

Yes. BH and I both have said that.

.. that ____ (fill in the blank) history month separates instead of bringing together. We also both said that black/latino/asian/white .. whatever ... history, should be taught the entire school year and not just segregated for one month.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by intrepid
As far as a "Whatever History Month" goes, has anyone given any thought that this is yet ANOTHER way to separate us?

Yes. BH and I both have said that.

.. that ____ (fill in the blank) history month separates instead of bringing together. We also both said that black/latino/asian/white .. whatever ... history, should be taught the entire school year and not just segregated for one month.

My bad.

You've got it covered.

I'll go sit in the corner now.

George Carlin rocks.

BH and Flyers fan too on that
We should also do more to unite than to divide ourselves like we do.

George Carlin for President or is it Robin Williams

This is the concept at least, it may not work out that way but its what we are suppost to stand for.

Did you read it Koka? I said in concept. I referred to the UK concept of using a person family tree to decide things. Which is what you are trying to hold the "Whitey" child of today up to.

Are you upset that I refered to the UK at all, or that I'm not showing the United Kingdom up to some great and shiny light

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Royal76]

Originally posted by Royal76
Did you read it Koka? I said in concept. I referred to the UK concept of using a person family tree to decide things. Which is what you are trying to hold the "Whitey" child of today up to.

Yes, read and understood, and then gave you an example of how the concept was at fault, and a glaringly obvious one at that.

Are you upset that I refered to the UK at all, or that I'm not showing the United Kingdom up to some great and shiny light

Upset? Not at all......should I be?

Great and shiney light...........why would you do that?

I'm just unsure as to why you keep mentioning the UK, when this subject is about BHM.

What I actually believe is that you brought up the UK to try and make me appear a hypocrite, which was doomed to failure due to me not being a patriot.

Originally posted by Koka
when this subject is about BHM.

Actually, this subject is supposed to be about WHM (check the title)... but we see how that's going...

Originally posted by intrepid
I'll go sit in the corner now.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Come back. We won't bite! Promise. Just make sure to put a star on your calendar ... You, Me, and BH all agreed on something substantial on this date.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by intrepid
I'll go sit in the corner now.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Come back. We won't bite! Promise. Just make sure to put a star on your calendar ... You, Me, and BH all agreed on something substantial on this date.

That in itself is something worthy of a special mention! Forget BHM or WHM, today is a day that will go down in history..

These are two views discussing White History Month.

The first one explores why there isn't a WHM.

Why can't we have White History Month?

...why is there no White History Month?[...] In other words, American history is white history, plain and simple. And as Thomas Sowell has written, “You cannot understand even your own history if that is the only history you know.”

Being white in the United States means that when my daughters attend school, the curricular materials they receive reflect the color of their skin; the same is not true for my African-American friends and colleagues. When my children hear about their national heritage or about “civilization,” they are shown that people of their color made it what it is; again, not so for the children of my African-American friends. Scholar Peggy McIntosh, associate director of the Wellesley Colllege Center for Research on Women, listed these and other realities of what it means to be white in this country - simply conditions of daily experience which, as a white person, she once took for granted. Not only do “flesh” colored bandages match her skin color, she noted, but when she turns on the television or looks at the front page of the paper, she can see people of her race widely represented—and not just as criminals or sports figures. The same is not true for African-Americans.

This is another view about White History Month:

Flavor of the month

Because history in this country already focuses overwhelmingly on whites and on men.That's just a fact. School history books and history classes spend all sorts of time on the landing of the Mayflower, the founding fathers, the Revolution, the Westward expansion, and so many other historical events that were driven by white men. That is primarily what this country celebrates. For God's sake, white men already own the history books. A person generally has to go to college to have any hope of getting a view of American history that is truly representative. And I know why. It's long been said that "history is written by the victors." White men came here, they took over, and they didn't look back.

And you know, I'm not even really mad about that. Honest. I mean, what's the purpose? It's been done, and white Americans are not going to simply leave and return most of the country to Native Americans and parts of Texas and the Southwest to Mexico. The US isn't going to sell the land of the Louisiana Purchase back to France nor return Alaska to Russia just because we got bargain prices. I don't expect that.

But what I would like to see is for white Americans to stop giving people of color such shoddy coverage in the history books and to stop painting the United States as a saintly country that never does any wrong. White America needs to get over itself, and so does America in general. Historical months, regardless of their focus, are a step in that direction. And I wish more people who aren't black would pay attention during Black History Month rather than tune out or get defensive. I wish non-Hispanics would pay more attention to Hispanic Heritage Month. I wish as many men as women would appreciate Women's History Month.

Because I've said it before and I won't ever stop saying it: we're never going to get along unless we understand each other. This country will never truly grow up until we all acknowledge the good, the bad, and the ugly done by all of us. This country will never truly prosper until everyone really is given equal opportunity regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, or religious background.

FYI



[edit on 7-2-2007 by ceci2006]

I revisted my question, "What more about White History do we need to know that we already don't?" As I reflect on this question, I realize the answer is much more complex than it was made and received.

In this stance, I agree with BH and her statements that there are avenues yet to be discovered in terms of the impact of "whiteness" in this country. I further agree that more research needs to be done on how white people see themselves in American society and as part of the dominant culture. There are fledgling disciplines trying to discover that: White Privilege studies and Culture of Whiteness in America.

I tend to think that instead of a White History Month, there needs to be support for these examinations into what it means to be white in America. People of color have a consciousness of their color because we are reminded of it everyday. By the examination of white as a "color" and as a "culture", there can be ways to discuss the issues which make our American history in a different light, especially when it comes to re-reading the history taught to us in school.

Are whites conscious of their color? What is the impact of whiteness in America? What are the messages, values, concepts, social norms and attributes to being white in America?

What this thread addresses is that there are some white people searching for the answers to these questions. That part is good--if used in the right way.

However, what is equally important is to recognize the good and bad of history, warts and all. And in studies which examine "whiteness" as a concept, they are doing exactly that.

There also needs to be some understanding why people react the way they do in the ways of this thread toward "White History Month".

Why must Black History Month be eliminated (Rosewood style) because another race cannot have a White History Month? Why can't people accept that the establishment of months have to do with getting American society to pay attention to other groups in America that have made an impact on United States History? Why don't people make an effort to get to know these other histories in light of what they've been told in school?

Otoh, I tend to think that it isn't fair to eliminate all the other months. It would be doing ourselves a great disservice. It also isn't guaranteed that if one were to remove all the other months that schools would automatically cover other "histories" that make up America.

In fact, the elimination of the other months reflects the "colorblind" approach which beckons people "not to see color". In America, we are very "color conscious" in terms of identity, the establishment of social structures and ideology. And if identity is the issue here, it would be helpful to have research in the new areas of "whiteness" in order to understand why there are such beliefs, social norms, actions and ideologies which form American culture as a whole. Furthermore, it is also fair to examine how white people feel about the culture of "whiteness" and its impact on the larger social, ideological and cultural system in the United States.

It would be helpful to investigate why other races must be forced to abandon their culture and history when it comes to calling for the disbandment of their months. By calling other cultures and races to give up their months, isn't that the same as the practices of Colonialism?



[edit on 8-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Koka
when this subject is about BHM.

Actually, this subject is supposed to be about WHM (check the title)... but we see how that's going...

Yes, it is supposed to be, but you'd have to be blind to not see the real reason for this thead being in existence.

People have said that if we want equality, we should not celebrate any specific colour in history.

Well, if we want equality, should white people not don the shackles of oppression and experience to the fullest what it was to be "Black" in a young America? Don't answer that, as the answer is no, although it would take the experience for some to understand the perspective.

The truth is, as summed up in the quote by Thomas Sowell as posted by ceci2006 “You cannot understand even your own history if that is the only history you know.”

This thread has little to do with justifying WHM and everything to do insecurity.

Originally posted by ceci2006
what is equally important is to recognize the good and bad of history, warts and all.

Using your thought process - then for black history month the country should be discussing black gang crime rates; black men and their abandonment of their children (%70); welfare queens; anti-white racism amongst blacks; ..... warts and all eh?? The purpose of a history month is to show GOOD examples and to give people positive roll models.

Why must Black History Month be eliminated (Rosewood style) because another race cannot have a White History Month?

Oh the drama. Not 'because whites can't have a history month' ... geeeze, read the posts. Eliminate them because they are SEGREGATING. Teach the history all through the school year. Together. History of Americans of all races all together through the whole year. No one gets special treatment and no one is segregated. We are all Americans ... together.

In fact, the elimination of the other months reflects the "colorblind" approach which beckons people "not to see color".

GOOD!

it is also fair to examine how white people feel about the culture of "whiteness"

Frankly all the white people I know don't give a hoot about so-called 'whiteness' and they aren't obsessed with race.

By calling other cultures and races to give up their months, isn't that the same as the practices of Colonialism?

:shk: That's beyond a wild stretch. We are all AMERICANS. Remember? Not having segregated months, while at the same time having histories taught throughout the year, is bringing Americans together and not segregating by race. You forget that everyone is AMERICAN.

Originally posted by Koka
This thread has little to do with justifying WHM and everything to do insecurity.

Actually, most everyone here doesn't think there needs to be a WHM so there hasn't been much justifying of it going around.

Insecurity? Riiiiiiiiiiiight.