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What would you say about a White History Month?

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posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Just so I know, what month is caveman awareness month?


They're "cavemen", they only get a week.




posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
It doesn't matter, intrepid. I just find it funny that research gets a bum rap in race-related studies while in other subjects (i.e. the WOT, ufology, etc.) it gets praised.

I already know that whatever I could possibly say would never move or convince you otherwise.

It hasn't moved anyone on this thread. And it won't on topics like these.


What you have just proven here is YOUR prejudice. I asked for clarification of your words because I didn't get the point, not that you didn't make one. Why won't you break it down into quantifiable terms?



So, insult me if you must. I'll just take it in stride--especially when you accuse me again of whining and "having an agenda" instead of acknowledging that myself and a few others care enough to post sources and analyze them.


Crawl down off of the cross ceci, I think I've said that before but I didn't insult you anywhere, nor did I say anything about whining, I asked for clarification. Is that forthcoming?



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:03 PM
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Don't worry about it, ceci.

I, too, have noticed that you are often ridiculed when you do your research and post it here. But, yeah, it IS funny that race-related topics are the only ones where people are mocked for posting evidence.

I say let em hate, ceci. Use that as "motivation" and let the "haters get on they job." (little TI reference there).



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

What you have just proven here is YOUR prejudice .


This isn't showing my prejudice. By expressing my position in this debate, I am showing my committment for hard-work and the pursuit for trying to understand the reasons behind some of the positions here.


. I asked for clarification of your words because I didn't get the point, not that you didn't make one. Why won't you break it down into quantifiable terms?


Whenever there is a subject on the board about race, people complain about the research. Since research is always important on this site, I would expect in all matters of equality this would be the same.

The side supporting the elimination of all the months has a lack of empathy and respect for people of color, their culture and history.

By calling for the elimination of all months, it supports the propaganda of the conservatives. The conservatives have used the "colorblind" approach as a form of ignoring racial injustice and perpetuating institutional racism. My research (political, sociological and cultural studies; social dominance theory) supports this.

The language displayed in this thread shows how well the messages from the Right has worked:

"I don't see a color"
"I only see the human race"
"We all must be colorblind"
"We must eliminate all the historical months"

The problem with these messages is that they do not allow the thinkers to entertain any one else's culture except the narrow minded view of their own.

That is why I proposed that this position of eliminating the months displays a lack of empathy.



Crawl down off of the cross ceci, I think I've said that before but I didn't insult you anywhere, nor did I say anything about whining, I asked for clarification. Is that forthcoming?


Yes, you've said it to me. And I remember how and when you said it. But that is neither here nor there. I don't want to be a martyr. Nor am I holier than thou. But when I participate in a debate, I expect to be in a debate.


[edit on 9-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
Don't worry about it, ceci.

I, too, have noticed that you are often ridiculed when you do your research and post it here. But, yeah, it IS funny that race-related topics are the only ones where people are mocked for posting evidence.

I say let em hate, ceci. Use that as "motivation" and let the "haters get on they job." (little TI reference there).


Lol


truthseeka, thank you for your kind words and support. I appreciate it very much. The reason why I brought it up is that I find it is particularly funny that people don't like research in race-related topics. Hmmmm. I wonder why.


Don't worry. I've got a tougher skin than most. They haven't beaten me.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
The side supporting the elimination of all the months has a lack of empathy and respect for people of color, their culture and history.

By calling for the elimination of all months, it supports the propaganda of the conservatives. The conservatives have used the "colorblind" approach as a form of ignoring racial injustice and perpetuating institutional racism. My research (political, sociological and cultural studies) supports this.



Are you serious? I am a person of "colour" in the U.S, I most certainly see "colour" in my day to day life, and I still completely disagree with what you are saying!

To say that we need some "month" is pathetic. ( IMHO)

[edited to delete expletive ]

[edit on 8-2-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:20 PM
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And those last 3 posts have what to do with this topic?


Let's address this topic instead of continually jacking this one, I've started this thread:

www.abovepolitics.com...

You ready to go guys? Let's keep it real though, no obfuscation, just REAL words, not tripe.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:21 PM
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Meanwhile, the poor cavemen have their roasted duck, mango salsa...and only a week.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Are you serious? I am a person of "colour" in the U.S, I most certainly see "colour" in my day to day life, and I still completely disagree with what you are saying!

To say that we need some "month" is pathetic. ( IMHO)


That's fine and well, phoenixhasrisin. You have a right to believe what you want.

However, I tend to think that if people ignore other cultures and histories for the sake of one overall narrative which partially covers the timeline of deeds by solely one group of people, then we all suffer except the ones the history socially, economically, politically and culturally benefits.

You may want the elimination of all months. But I don't. To call for it disrespects the histories of the different cultures in American society, by telling them that the only history that is important is the dominant culture's history. Furthermore, it conveys lack of understanding due to an inability to be interested in any other race other than one.

For what it is worth, people who preach the colorblind theory use it to conveniently project their own prejudices while wearing a mask. Any mention of culture and race, they go into convulsions and accuse the other race of being racist because of the lack of "color consciousness" in their own thinking. At the same time, they are systematically calling for the disbandment of everything "racially oriented" while preserving the privileges, values, social norms and actions of their own race.

In preserving their own subtlely racist attitudes, they win through the, "if I can't have it, they can't have it" type of speaking that permeates through their entire thinking about race. In fact, the people who are "colorblind" are probably the most obsessed about race than the rest of us because their interests are at stake.

That is why I find the disbandment of months to be an attack on people of color, their history and culture. I also find that this awareness of elimination only suits to satisfy the rhetoric put forth by the neo-cons via their policies and propaganda in order to disenfranchise the people they have disdain for.

So, you may disagree. That is your perrogative. But, to be fair, you must also recognize what you are giving up when you support this position.




[edit on 8-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
That is why I proposed that this position of eliminating the months displays a lack of empathy.


And what does such a firm stance against something as harmless as White History Month display? Empathy?


Originally posted by ceci2006
And BH, I only do research for myself so I can expand my mind as well as present my side of a debate. I don't expect you to understand or to respect hard work when it is done.



Hey, it wasn't me who laughed at your research. But the person who did is half black, so of course you can't confront them about it. And you accuse me of "racial solidarity".


The thing about research in the area of race is that it's really all opinion. You can find research to support your opinion and I can find research to support mine. People write conflicting schloraly articles every day. They just don't mean that much. We would probably get a lot further if we just "talked". Because as I've said before, I don't care what your sources say. I wanted to hear what you thought. I don't want to be proven that I'm the big bad white guy. I just wanted to get to know you, hear what you've been through.


Originally posted by ceci2006
I guess it would be regression if "one group of human beings" got their way at the expense of another group of "human beings" who have been ridiculed, subjugated and systematically cheated out of their rights and livelihood at the greed of another.


I wonder if I'll ever be able to figure out what you want. You talk relentlessly about how the black people have been treated by the white people, using various phrases like "minority", "dominant culture", "power elite" and I have spent hours discussing this with you. But I have NEVER been able to figure out exactly what you want or expect from all of it...

And I KNOW it's not discussion that you want, even though that's what you say. Because when people discuss things, they have a free flow of opinions and ideas. But as soon as someone (white) challenges you (by... let's say disagreeing with something you've said) you slap them with the race card, claiming that they have disagreed because they are the dominant culture.

No... I don't think I'll ever know what you want... :shk:



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
And those last 3 posts have what to do with this topic?


Let's address this topic instead of continually jacking this one, I've started this thread:

You ready to go guys? Let's keep it real though, no obfuscation, just REAL words, not tripe.


I didn't expect you to understand even if I tried to clarify my position. That's okay. I did the best I can do. I am keeping it real--for my position by doing research, for my part.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006


That's fine and well, phoenixhasrisin. You have a right to believe what you want.



Ditto.

To automatically assume that I prefer the current cultural narrative though is fallacious at best.

It seems to me as if you are easily appeased with a token "month", not unlike the same way people were appeased with token characters on their T.V screen.

What's wrong with striving for the truth all year long?



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

And what does such a firm stance against something as harmless as White History Month display? Empathy?


Yes it does. And a respect for the cultures and history of everyone.

However, I disagree with you that WHM is harmless.



Hey, it wasn't me who laughed at your research. But the person who did is half black, so of course you can't confront them about it. And you accuse me of "racial solidarity".


You always laugh at my research. And when you don't, you twist my words. That's why I don't discuss experiences anymore. Scholarly reports are there to present the issue without any displays of emotionality.


The thing about research in the area of race is that it's really all opinion. You can find research to support your opinion and I can find research to support mine.


And I will continue to do so. What have you done for your part?




People write conflicting schloraly articles every day. They just don't mean that much. We would probably get a lot further if we just "talked".


They do mean a lot. They mean that when one presents their position, they have evidence to back it up. It comes down to credibility in this matter too.

It's funny when there is research to point out why people do the things they do and say, research doesn't matter.


It's also funny that with all this talk about "getting an education", when someone does something educable, they get mocked.


Talking, I've found (as a result of the "racism" thread), only leads to ridicule and verbal brawls. It's also a cop out for not being able to critically analyze and wrestle with the research.



Because as I've said before, I don't care what your sources say. I wanted to hear what you thought. I don't want to be proven that I'm the big bad white guy. I just wanted to get to know you, hear what you've been through.


Please. I've spoken about what I've been through. And it's been thrown back in my face--and with the pronouncement of "lack of communication skills". I've been through that. I find it is best to post sources and critically analyze them now in order to present a very good and intelligent debate.

I'm sorry that you don't feel the same.


I wonder if I'll ever be able to figure out what you want. You talk relentlessly about how the black people have been treated by the white people, using various phrases like "minority", "dominant culture", "power elite" and I have spent hours discussing this with you. But I have NEVER been able to figure out exactly what you want or expect from all of it...


It shows your blindness is many ways. When I did "talk", it was still misconstrued. At least with studies, there would be some way to pinpoint what I've been trying to say and provide evidence to back it up.

You've talked relentlessly about how white people have been discriminated against. You've also talked "for" Black people without any recognizance on your part about what you are saying sometimes.

In short, it all comes down to who will be deemed credible and believed. And when I asked those questions, I got mocked there as well.

But it came to pass, did it not?


And I KNOW it's not discussion that you want, even though that's what you say. Because when people discuss things, they have a free flow of opinions and ideas. But as soon as someone (white) challenges you (by... let's say disagreeing with something you've said) you slap them with the race card, claiming that they have disagreed because they are the dominant culture.


I've never slapped anyone with the race card. If that has been done, that all falls on you with your "whining and crying" about racism every little second just because someone discusses their racial identity.

You don't believe in the free flow of opinions. In fact, you are oppressed by others' ideas especially when they don't come out and agree with your point of view. I mean, how much more remarks about your "blindness" will it take before you really see the picture?

I'm sorry that you are in denial. I know that you discuss these issues with a lot of restraint. For the most part, so do I. But at least I can say that I do research, I critically analyze and post sources to back up what I say.

I don't have the luxury of depending on opinions and talk as you do. Why, wouldn't you say that the ability to be believed without proof is another one of those hidden "privileges" that you say you don't get?


No... I don't think I'll ever know what you want... :shk:


You don't want to try. That is your fault, not mine. I can't help you there. :shk:



[edit on 9-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006

Originally posted by intrepid
And those last 3 posts have what to do with this topic?


Let's address this topic instead of continually jacking this one, I've started this thread:

You ready to go guys? Let's keep it real though, no obfuscation, just REAL words, not tripe.


I didn't expect you to understand even if I tried to clarify my positiion. That's okay. I did the best I can do. I am keeping it real--for my position by doing research, for my part.


So you are basically NOT going to engage then, just continue to evade this issue? I'm willing to address this in the thread I started but you continue with this obfuscation. Join me in my thread. We'll deal with this there, not here. It's not the topic here.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:46 PM
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I did "engage" the issue. I stated my position twice with clarity and posted sources to back it up. I don't understand why you or anyone else won't address the issue of "disbanding the months" in the same light.

All I want is an explaination why people who adopt the position of "colorblindness" do not want to recognize other people's cultures apart from their own. I also want to know why they would espouse such a position that knowingly ignores the deeper implications of institutional racism and history. Furthermore, I would like to know why they use this reasoning behind "disbanding the historical months" of other cultures than their own. That's all.

I'm sorry that people clam up and get defensive on this issue. So, since they do, I went to research on the matter myself and posted my findings. That's all I can do since no one truly wants to "engage" with me, except to deride my efforts.



[edit on 9-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 10:01 PM
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ceci, I understand where you are coming from with the issue, and you do have a point. There are deeper implications to colorblindness. But question yourself, ceci. Ultimately, will colorblindness not be the best for all concerned? And why can't the core issue of racism be eventually separated from cultural heritage, so that we can all move beyond the skin color element?

You can try and glue those two together, but eventually that glue's gotta fail. It must, or we are doomed to perpetuate it, on both sides, and on all sides.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by TrueAmerican]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
You may want the elimination of all months. .... To call for it disrespects the histories of the different cultures in American society, by telling them that the only history that is important is the dominant culture's history.


To call for ALL histories to be taught together through the ENTIRE school year is 'disrespectful' and somehow means that only white history is important????? How the heck did you convolute teaching 'all histories throughout the year' to mean an end to teaching anything about black, asian, hispanic history? Nevermind. I already know where you came up with it.


For what it is worth, people who preach the colorblind theory use it to conveniently project their own prejudices while wearing a mask.


Being colorblind isn't a 'theory'. It's just the way people operate. It's in their nature. It wasn't slammed into the brain by Ronald Reagan and it isn't a freak'n mask. It's just the way people are. And it's the way we are SUPPOSED TO BE. Colorblind. Eveyrone treated equally. No one treated better or worse due to what their skin color happens to be.


"if I can't have it, they can't have it"

Oh please.
You are just seeing what you want to see ... again. When people here called for no-special-months .. they also said to put all histories together, as we should be, and teach it together.


In fact, the people who are "colorblind" are probably the most obsessed about race than the rest of us because their interests are at stake.


Oh the drama. Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night.
There are only two people I have seen obsessed about race on this site .. and you are one of them (the other, a fella, seems to be gone). YOUR interests are 'at stake'. For the rest of us .. it's a 'whatever'.


Originally posted by ceci2006
All I want is an explaination why people who adopt the position of "colorblindness" do not want to recognize other people's cultures apart from their own.


It's not an 'adopted position'. It's in the person's nature. And this 'question' of yours has been answered repeatedly through this entire thread. YOU are making up in your head that people are not 'recognizing cultures' when in fact no one said to eliminate the histories of black/asian/latino .. we all said teach it THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

You are causing your own headache by cherry-picking and passing over that which has been repeated over and over and over and over and over ...

this is turning into a waste of bandwidth :shk:


[edit on 2/9/2007 by FlyersFan]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 09:36 AM
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Why can't we try and talk about all of them equally.

My issue is that we talk about only a few, maybe if we added them all up including Caveman awareness, it might be that everyone only gets a week or two.

Shouldn't the United States the great "Melting Pot" be the one to do it. Aren't we the guys/gals who took some from every country to form the USA
Aren't we are own little NATO


If anyone can celebrate, discuss, show repect for ALL, races, traditions, creeds, etc., shouldn't it be us


Every race, creed, etc. has its Prejudices. Through out my life I have noticed that it was more prevailant with the older generations, who were taught by their parents to think that way. If you look at the new generations growing now you will notice that not as many have them. (I'm not saying it is gone) When we get to a day were they are just a passing fancy, something to scoff at the past. Then we will no longer need HM to talk about other cultures we will already know about them and our children will know because we told them.

PS If a scholar puts forth a theory or other thought he/she should be prepared to defend it from the stupid to the highly thought out responses. I have seen nothing wrong with many of the thoughts scholars have tried to raise. Keeping in mind that I don't admit I agree with all of them.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
All I want is an explaination why people who adopt the position of "colorblindness" do not want to recognize other people's cultures apart from their own.


I don't adopt the position of "colorblindness", but as I have said, it's IMPOSSIBLE to be truly colorblind, as Stephen Colbert jokes about, and as you well know. When people say they want to be colorblind, they mean they want true equality. To see color, but not to judge based on it.

And the desire for true equality in no way implies that they don't want to recognize other people's culture. That is an incorrect assumption you have made.

There you have it.
Accept it or not.



Furthermore, I would like to know why they use this reasoning behind "disbanding the historical months" of other cultures than their own.


No one has espoused this position. No one has asked that all other historical months be trashed except for their own. In fact, you seem to want to keep BHM while not wanting white people to have one. So if anyone is guilty of this reasoning, it's you.



[edit on 9-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:30 AM
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You've misconstrued my words again.


Since this is noted as repetitive behavior, it is business as usual, with or without your histronics.

Other than that, I'll be ready to debate my side and present my evidence.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by ceci2006]



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