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What would you say about a White History Month?

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posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 07:00 AM
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This article came to my attention early this morning. It is on the concept of being colorblind. I think it is rather constructive in laying the framework why the "disbanding the months" position is taken especially when it has to do what author, Robert Jensen, has called "de-racing":



Being colorblind does not offset innate advantages of white privilege


In an attempt to appear anti-racist, it is common for well-intentioned white folks to say something like: "I don't think of John as black. I just think of him as a person."

[...]

In a thoroughly racialized and racist society such as the United States, attempting to endorse the humanity of nonwhite people by pretending they have no color is not a sign that one has moved beyond race. Rather, it indicates that one is stuck knee-deep in the culture's deeply embedded racism. Why?

Who makes such statements? I have never had a nonwhite person say to me, "When I look at you, Bob, I don't see a white person. I just see a person."

That's because being white historically has not been associated with degradation, dehumanization and denigration; being white does not make my humanity problematic. To see me as fully human, nonwhite people don't have to strip away my whiteness because whiteness is not assumed to be less-than-anything. So although no nonwhite person has to de-race white people to treat them as people, white people often take such de-racing to be evidence of having transcended racism. This clamor for colorblindness is another reflection of how far white America has to go in race relations.At this moment in history, being colorblind is a privilege available only to white people.

Nonwhite people do not have the luxury of pretending that color can be ignored.


FYI--a different spin on the thinking behind "eliminating historical months" to stop "divisiveness" and "segregation".



[edit on 8-2-2007 by ceci2006]




posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 07:48 AM
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Your sources are babbling racists. They probably have quite a cult following amongst those who WANT white people to be racist, even when they aren't.


Originally posted by ceci2006
In an attempt to appear anti-racist, it is common for well-intentioned white folks to say something like: "I don't think of John as black. I just think of him as a person."


'attempt to appear anti-racist'?? 'well intentioned' ??

Oh brother. Fact is ... when people say that they don't see color, that is exactly what they mean. They don't see color. There is no 'attempt' at anything. There is no 'intent' either. It just is what it is ... non-racism and non-segregation.


Rather, it indicates that one is stuck knee-deep in the culture's deeply embedded racism.


Rather, it indicates that the author of this babbling is pushing segregation and racism even when it isn't there.

This is seriously deranged. America wants to become non-racist and colorblind when it deals with people. That's the way it should be. No one treated any differently due to race/color (or creed, gender, etc). And yet here are people advocating segregation and racism. Incredible. :shk:



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Using your thought process - then for black history month the country should be discussing black gang crime rates; black men and their abandonment of their children (%70); welfare queens; anti-white racism amongst blacks; ..... warts and all eh??


Actually, I don't think this is a bad idea. I think it's important for us to realize that we ALL have "good and bad" about us. It shows that our similarities far outweigh our differences. Self-reflection and -assessment are great things. For all people. If white people are expected to realize and come to terms with some of our less appealing history, I don't see why everyone else shouldn't take a good look at themselves.

When I said I though we should study the real history of the white race, I didn't mean to suggest that other races should only stick to the positive about themselves. And maybe a WHM isn't the best forum in which to go about that, but I do think the all of our history should be studied more closely.


Originally posted by ceci2006


Who makes such statements? I have never had a nonwhite person say to me, "When I look at you, Bob, I don't see a white person. I just see a person."



The only person I've ever hear say something like this to a black person is Stephen Colbert!
Who makes such statements, indeed! I wonder if the author has ever heard it said to a black person... I doubt it.

I don't claim to be "colorblind", but in my experience, when I have discussed this phrase with friends, they meant that they didn't judge people based on their color. And "white" was one of the colors.

I agree with FF that this source is totally racist, and I'll add enormously "guilty" and assumptive, assuming that white skin makes a person automatically racist and implying that anyone with white skin is automatically ignorant about the other races or racism.



So although no nonwhite person has to de-race white people to treat them as people, white people often take such de-racing to be evidence of having transcended racism.


I have never heard such crap in my life!
This implies that non-white people look at white people and don't see them as a race!
And what's more, that non-whites (I guess by virtue of their skin color and inherent benevolence) automatically treat whites as "people". :shk:

This kind of crap just adds to the divide. Congratulations!


[edit on 8-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 08:59 AM
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All the authors from my sources were white. So, in essence, you are calling your own people racist and you are calling your people's texts crap. So much for the appreciation regarding research into whiteness by diverse white voices.


I agree with Koka on this one. There is a lot of (color) blindness and insecurity around here.




[edit on 8-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
you are calling your own people racist and you are calling your people's work crap.


'your people'. There's that segregating again.


I don't care what color those people are. They wrote crap. Racist crap.


There is a lot of (color) blindness and insecurity around.


Color blindness? I hope so. Insecurity? bwahahahhahaha
Funny



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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Yeah, sorry, I neither automatically discount people because of their skin pigment nor do I automatically accept what they say as truth because of their skin pigment. I understand some people do that. I believe it's called "solidarity".


Gosh, if I practiced "solidarity", I'd have gone along with him, wouldn't I? Because I knew he was white. That's why I said he was "guilty". He's a racist piece of crap. Regardless of his skin pigment.

In essence, the color doesn't matter to me! How many times do I have to say that?
I don't judge by color. I see it, but I don't make judgments based on it.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Actually, most everyone here doesn't think there needs to be a WHM so there hasn't been much justifying of it going around.


Makes you wonder why we are debating the point then.

So we basically we have 4 answers:

1. Yes, We should have a BHM.
2. No, We should not have a BHM
3. Yes, We should have a WHM and a BHM
4. No, We shouldn't have either.

..and a few variations involving those that apparently do not fall within these categories.

History is History you accept it for its truth, or believe what suits you, neither will change it.

It has made us what we are now and it is there for all of us to learn from.

We cannot pick and choose differing versions, we have to look for the truth
no matter the hurt it may cause, only then will we begin to understand our potential as A race.


Insecurity?
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.


Yes.....insecurity.......



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Koka
Yes.....insecurity.......


I like your post. I'm curious about this, though. What exactly do you think people are insecure about? Would you mind expanding a little on that? Thanks.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:32 AM
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There is a real answer why there isn't any respect for the arguments associated with the disbandment of "all other months" for the sake of one race. When ideologies (repeated from a known source) are used over and over without any theoretical or critical analysis, then it is simple propaganda built on trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. And when one is that desperate to hide the enormous amount of guilt and insecurity that is behind these arguments, it shows the rest of us how the use of false "righteousness" is implemented as a weapon against reason.

I certainly hope that this isn't the case.
------------------------------------------------

Besides, Mr. Jensen isn't racist. He is talking about white people using informed, theoretical and reasonable judgements about them. Furthermore, his article shows no animosity against his own race or any other racial background of people. He also brings insights into his work examining the lexicon and behaviors of white people in American society.

To show racism, one would have to make an uninformed judgement based on animosity against a group of people.

His source, along with the others, does not show any animosity. Let's just say all the sources are showing a little bit of "tough love" and displaying a "good message".


I think someone has to post a definition of racism to make it clear around here before some posters "whine, cry and scream" about it.



[edit on 8-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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What is the point of a WHM?

I'm assuming that people for it would have wanted WHM created, EVEN IF there was no BHM. Right...



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
What is the point of a WHM?


Actually, many pages back, most of us decided that it wasn't necessary to have a WHM. Most of us (not all, but most) decided that ANY _____ (fill in the blank) history month was unnecessary and that history should be taught in an integrated manner ... all together ... not segregated.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by truthseeka
What is the point of a WHM?


Actually, many pages back, most of us decided that it wasn't necessary to have a WHM. Most of us (not all, but most) decided that ANY _____ (fill in the blank) history month was unnecessary and that history should be taught in an integrated manner ... all together ... not segregated.



Sure.


With the Eurocentric education I received in school, I TOTALLY agree with you.
Integrate history...yeah. Remember what happened when they started integrating schools? But hey, it seems pretty plausible in fairy tale land.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Koka
Yes.....insecurity.......


I like your post. I'm curious about this, though. What exactly do you think people are insecure about? Would you mind expanding a little on that? Thanks.


I will try, but I guarantee denial will follow.

I look at the terminology used and the manner in which it has been presented, so its there for ALL of us to see. I see insecurity to a lesser or greater degree in numerous posts on this thread.

I have noted that an earlier post and poster seems to have been eradicated, Deus_Brandon's post would have given me an example of the greater. We need not go into the lesser as my comparison would be with the initial poster, who I do not believe to racist.

Royal76 did however initiate this thread, a thread which appears all to often when another culture wants to celebrate their uniqueness.

It is not to say that there was never a time when I wouldn't have asked a similar question, I probably will in the future, just not concerning this subject.

I think if we ask questions we have to first understand that we might not like the answers, but atleast we are still learning.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Koka]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
With the Eurocentric education I received in school,


I have no idea how old you are so I can't address that. When I went to school it was rather eurocentric as well. However, as I posted SOMEWHERE on this site (can't remember where), my daughter's history class is very different from what I got as a child. Part of class is/was Egypt and Northern Africa (morrocco). They did immigrants that came through Ellis Island (with a field trip to the Island). They did ancient Rome and Greece. They are doing the civil rights movement right now. Yesterday was Rosa Parks day.

American History HAS to discuss things that had a major impact on this country. The Euro expansion into America as well as the immigrants from Europe, Asia and Spanish speaking countries is a large part of our history and has to be discussed. The Revolutionary War and the founding fathers. You can't dump the european part of our history because, like it our not, it really IS a major part of how America was founded.

It is fully possible to have American History that is integrated.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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I asked my college why a student, who's parents are successful doctor's, get's more financial aid than I, a student who is living on his own with a full-time job. I was told it was due to other circumstances out of my control. When I looked into the TAP program, no matter what your income is, if you are not white, you get more aid. I honestly believe that TAP needs to re-evaluate it's agenda to be equal. We all want equality. If someone needs aid, give it to them because they need it, not because they are white or not. I am not racist by any means, I am pleasant and friendly. It's the numbers that bother me...reverse racism...not good.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by Koka
I will try, but I guarantee denial will follow.


Ok. Just so you know, I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, not to set up a denial.
And after reading your post, I'm sorry, but I still don't see the answer to my question.



I see insecurity to a lesser or greater degree in numerous posts on this thread.


Insecurity of what though? Everyone has their insecurities, for sure, but what particularly in this thread do you think people are insecure about? Is "insecure" really the word you mean to use? Because if it is, I'm still not getting it.



I have noted that an earlier post and poster seem to have been eradicated, Deus_Brandon's post would have given me an example of the greater.


I can't say for sure, but I believe this poster is on "global ignore" as his posts just up and disappeared. It happens sometimes if staff determines that someone needs a "time-out". If I am correct and he 'behaves' himself, he'll be back in a few days. But I don't know for sure.

Deus_Brandon is a self-proclaimed racist. Is that what you mean by "insecure"?



We need not go into the lesser as my comparison would be with the initial poster, who I do not believe to racist.


Ok, so you don't think Royal76 is racist, but he's a little insecure?
What is he insecure about? His race?



I think if we ask questions we have to first understand that we might not like the answers, but atleast we are still learning.


Well-said!

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 10:36 AM
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Sorry, I will not endeavour to pinpoint Royal76's specific insecurities, I would ask that you examine the reasons why Royal76 would need to ask this question at all.

What would you say about a White History Month?

Did you feel the need to ask this question?

I didn't.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Koka]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 10:38 AM
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Ok, so you don't think Royal76 is racist, but he's a little insecure? What is he insecure about? His race?


I'm Not insecure. REALLY!. NO, I'M NOT, really. aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh


Honestly I think we are all insecure at least a litte. Unless you are one of those guys running around in camo's up in the hills playing soldier.
But that does not change the fact that in order to actually be equal you must be equal. You can't take all of the good but refuse to except the bad that comes. There must be a balance.

*****************Totally off Topic******************************
PS There should also be a Jedi History month. Since in a World wide census more than 15-20%(I not sure of the actual stats, just what I remember) claim Jedi as their religion. Makes you wonder if George Lucas has any plans on starting his own Scientology. Sorry Off topic



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 10:45 AM
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Sorry, I will not endeavour to pinpoint Royal76's specific insecurities, I would ask that you examine the reasons why Royal76 would need to ask this question at all.

What would you say about a White History Month?

Did you feel the need to ask this question?

I didn't.


That you wouldnt ask the question tells me all I need to know. That you would show respect and admiration for different groups but not your own says it all. That you would not like to discuss this at all is kind of funny since you have how many post on the subject



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Royal76
Because Whitey is not the school bully he's been PCed. Its an analogy of us all. Whitey's great grandfather was the school bully. Is it right to hold his great grandson accountable for his failings




No, it's not right to hold his descendants responsible. On the opposite side of the coin, is it wrong to expect his descendants to admit that they just might be the beneficiaries of a system that thier ancestors set up?

White history month in America...how absurd. Christ, I really wish we had some "native americans" on the board to weigh in on the issue.



[edit on 8-2-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]



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