Why isnt Jesus, an Arab?

runetan, I'm sorry, but where the hell are you getting this from? Sure the Bible mentions Noah's sons but where, for example, do you get the Ham's descendants became the Africans?

[edit on 6-2-2007 by Providence]

Originally posted by Providence
runetan, I'm sorry, but where the hell are you getting this from? Sure the Bible mentions Noah's sons but where, for example, do you get the Ham's descendants became the Africans?

[edit on 6-2-2007 by Providence]

I've seen it tossed around before. But I'd sure as hell like to know where it comes from as well!

Originally posted by Providence
runetan, I'm sorry, but where the hell are you getting this from? Sure the Bible mentions Noah's sons but where, for example, do you get the Ham's descendants became the Africans?

i've heard this as well (though typically from member of the KKK and other white supremacist groups) and would also like to know where it comes from

Why should he be?

He's not in the same body as 2000 years ago anyway!

He's American now! Dark and beautiful but not Arab.
1/2 Portugese and 1/2 Black and half my age!

BUT ALIVE. If anyone would recognize him it would be me. And there no mistake.

yeah unfortunately this is another assumption people have possibly from westerners (like me) without thinking of probable history.

We obviously don't have a way to find out what his complexion was like except by his society in that point of history. So with this in mind he probably looked like a typical modern dark middle eastern male you see today. Reason being in those days racial features would have been very striking, pure and subject to were you were on the globe more so than today because of travel constraints (no one basically travelled far alone thought of it).

So with that in mind i'd like to say upyr's Aryan Church of God

[edit on 6-2-2007 by Selmer2]

But in Jerusalem, there was a large portion of fair skinned roman and germanic genotypes, too, weren't there?

Not that it matters; i just always had the impression that Jerusalem and Palestine were more varied as far as skin tone compared to the outlying areas which weren't junctions on the main trade routes back then.

Ahhhhhh
jesus was ethnically semitic, with a roman flavour

Yeah its hard, theology says he came from a pure Jewish bloodline though (King David bloodline) I would have thought this goes back before germanic influences (maybe not) so I think he did not have other influences or maybe a small unoticible influence, but I don't think latin influence, it would be weird mixing with a proud Jewish bloodline concerning the issues going on (who knows). Methinks the David bloodline would have been a iconic thing in the Jewish community so they possible keeped within their circle so to speak, a bit like racial groups today. Also like the modern Medici family etc.





[edit on 7-2-2007 by Selmer2]

Originally posted by Selmer2
Methinks the David bloodline would have been a iconic thing in the Jewish community so they possible keeped within their circle so to speak, a bit like racial groups today. Also like the modern Medici family etc.

I don't know my families history past 1900...Is it possible for people living ~2,000 years ago to know where they came from ~2,000 previous to them? I know verbal stories were much more accurate back then, as it was the tradition. But that's a long time to keep a legend, I would think.

You don't think Jesus maybe claimed falsely to be from the line of King David, or that Paul put the words into Jesus' mouth so to speak? Because w/out the line of King David, he could not be considered a Messiah.

Just a thought.

[edit on 2/8/2007 by Arcane Demesne]

one of the reasons this is a hard question for modern people is in ancient times the concept of nationality was irrelevant for the most part and the masses were more identified by tribe or village or region and especially religious belief systems they did not think of themselves as a ...fill in the blank nationality.

You don't think Jesus maybe claimed falsely to be from the line of King David, or that Paul put the words into Jesus' mouth so to speak? Because w/out the line of King David, he could not be considered a Messiah.

Could very well be

Originally posted by wcssar
one of the reasons this is a hard question for modern people is in ancient times the concept of nationality was irrelevant for the most part and the masses were more identified by tribe or village or region and especially religious belief systems they did not think of themselves as a ...fill in the blank nationality.

Yeah I was thinking about this for my idea on this subject Its safe to say they didn't have a football team and national flag

Have the scholars been on this topic or is this considered too open ended, if not it would be great I think. If so is anyone on this thread going to join them? Because we have alot of questions that def need to be answered and I am curious about this heaps.



[edit on 8-2-2007 by Selmer2]

umm, earlier some people mentioned that there were harldy any European pictures/paintings depicting Jesus as being dark skinned. Being Polish, i know of a very famous painting. It's called the "Czarna Madonna" which means "Black Mary/Virgin Mary".

It was painted in the 1430's and has a story behind it (this is what i have
been told and what i have read).

A POLISH LEGEND AND INSPIRATIONAL STORY:
While Poland was at war with Sweden in the Medieval Times, a Swedish theif broke into the monestary that the "Czarna Madonna" was being held and stole it. He would have been Sweden's hero and demoralized the Polish, which were and pretty much still are fiercely religious, if he returned to Sweden with the painting. He started to make his way to the nearest Swedish encampment, and had an easy time carrying the painting, which was very light. As he kept going the painting kept gaining weight, unusually quickly at that. It was almost unreal how fast the painting gained weight. After about 100 yards it felt as if the Painting weighed 80 pounds. He tried to drag it but it got even heavier. Eventually he gave up and was later captured by Polish soldiers. (i'm not sure about this part of the story, many different versions.) When one of the Pole's picked up the painting, it was as light as always, and he put it back in its place. But the Swede left his mark. He cut the cheek of the virgin Mary with his disgust at not being able to carry it. The painting is still in Poland today and is one of the most valuable single pieces of art in Europe.

I believe it used to be a Byzantine Orthadox Painting but was restored by the Polish after they found it tarnished and ruined.



here's some neat links: warsaw.usembassy.gov...

images.ask.com... c_slovakia_and_poland%2Fblack_madonna_pilgrimage.php&fm=i&ac=3&ftURI=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.ask.com%2Ffr%3Fq%3DShrine%2Bof%2Bthe%2BBlack%2BMadonna%2Bin%2 BPoland%26desturi%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.pilotguides.com%252Fdestination_guide%252Feurope%252Fczech_republic_slovakia_and_poland%252Fblack_madonna_p ilgrimage.php%26imagesrc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.pilotguides.com%252Fimages%252Fcontent%252Fdestination_guide%252Feurope%252Fczech%252Fczech_blackmad onna.jpg%26thumbsrc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252F65.214.37.88%252Fts%253Ft%253D8312540065361415507%26thumbuselocalisedstatic%3Dfalse%26fn%3Dczech_blackmadonna .jpg%26f%3D2%26fm%3Di%26ftbURI%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.ask.com%252Fpictures%253Fq%253DShrine%252Bof%252Bthe%252BBlack%252BMadonna%252Bin%252BPolan d%2526page%253D1&qt=0



yeah the second one is a bit long, sorry about that.

The truth is, it wasn't painted black. Years and years of candles burning around it have added soot to the paint and permanantly made it apear dark. But that doesn't change the fact that people just adore this painting. Not too long ago there was a magazine in Poland that made a copy of the painting that showed what it looked like before the soot was on it, and people just freaked. The Roman Catholic population was very upset that anyone dared change the apperance of this legendary picture.

so i guess that still counts, right?

there are also stories say that it was originally painted by St. Luke the Evangelist, after hearing stories that Mary told him. It made its way to Constantinople and was hung on the walls of teh castle and a besieging army fled as soon as they saw it. It then went to Poland, and this Swedish/Polish war story happened. Then in 1920 an invading Russian army saw the Image of the Czarna Madonna in the clouds and was suddenly dishartened, for they also heard the legendary stories of the painting, and just left the battlefield.

Look up stories about this painting, its quite an amazing thing. Many Roman Catholics go there every year to pay their respects, not only Polish citezins either. Enjoy!

Wow, that is spun out
thanks for the interesting read and links!

it won't let me edit my post so i can downsize that second link, wtf?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Wow, that is spun out
thanks for the interesting read and links!

Yes, religious figures have been viewed physically different by many cultures and races most often with a similiar resemblance to themselves:

You might be interested in this:

From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus

[size=3.3]And also the shroud or Turin (an alleged imprint of Christ)


- An artists impression based on the shroud


And this is information concerning the shroud of Turin

shroud.com Which includes history, images and all scientific papers and articles on the subject.

Notable tests and scientific commentary on the shroud:

University website on the shroud
1988 carbon tests
2003 tests with conflicting results

Interesting.

I remember seeing a documentary on Christianity and it talked about how a lot of black people were leaving Christianity and becoming Muslim because they didn't like the idea of worshiping some white dude.

well then they were'nt very religiously faithful to begin with, lol

Part of Jesus' appeal is that every nation can claim him as one of their own. Even though, logically speaking, everyone knows he was a Jew living in the Roman Province of Judea, people would like to think of Jesus as belonging to their ethnic or national group. For example Americans would like to think Jesus is an American, who likes apple pie, fireworks on fourth of July, barbeque, and high school football on Friday nights.

This is largely possible because the one group that can claim Jesus as one of their own, Jewish people, do not embrace him tightly. This enables virtually any other group to step in and claim Jesus as one of their own, transposing onto Jesus all of their groups idiosyncracies, including their groups physical features.

I found a very interesting parallel between this thread and another one:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The above thread is concerning an event in which some men of middle eastern descent entered Baptist churches to deliver a message that GOD is love and peace.

Some members in some congregations were frightened by this. In some circumstances, the authorities were called. I found it incredibly shocking and completely ironic that a group of white people who were gathered together to honor a figure of middle eastern descent were indeed frightened when men of middle eastern descent actually entered the building. It was also frightening that the men spoke in Hebrew. Isn‘t that the language in which part of the Christian Bible was written?

From page two of the thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by name removed

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
So if I understand this correctly, it would have felt much different if caucasian men had entered speaking in perfect English.

For sure. It would be very very wierd, but I wouldn't have the..."TERRORISTS BOMB CHURCH, KILL 50" headline running through my head.

It is my opinion that sometimes we give fear way too much power in our lives. I think that at this point, only a white Jesus will appear friendly to a group of white people.

A white Jesus and an English text may very well be a veil through which some people prefer to view their religion. I won’t fault them for that, as it is human nature that we sometimes let our fears stand in our way and the media helps us along - news cast by news cast, report by report.

However, I wouldn’t want to view my child through a veil. I wouldn’t try to drive a car while wearing a veil. I wouldn’t want to watch a sunset through a veil. I have learned from this that I don’t want to view GOD through a veil either.

May I always have the nerve to look my beliefs square in the face, no matter what color that face may be.

edit to fix link

[edit on 2/11/07 by wellwhatnow]

I originally was not going to post on this thread - but I could not resist - especially considering this is an actual cover up of the "Western Church". We have all seen the pictures of
"White Aryan Jesus" - it seems that all people would like the Saviour to look just like they do - but as we know that is just not accurate.

Actually... he was a Semite...

Of course, my personal views on Jesus is that his mother was raped by a Roman Soldier (not uncommon at all, but if you were raped you would be killed for having sex outside of marriage and shaming the family) so she said it was by divine intervention. So maybe he was half white, half Palestinian?

I tend to agree with Rockpunks view - that is the most logical when analyzed with Reason & History in mind. OK so then Jesus/Yeshua was half "Semitic" & half "Gentile". I also agree with the view that BOTH Jews & Arabs are Semitic peoples - racially they look similar (well besides the European Jews anyway - but that is a different story). If you really look at it both Jews & Arabs are not only similar Ethnically both of their Religious Theologies is pretty similar (i.e. Judaism vs. Islam). That probably stems from the fact that Semitic Languages like Hebrew & Arabic sound very similar & probably share a Root language - although Hebrew is obviously the older language. There have been differences in the Cultures that have developed over time - but more than likely the Cultures were not too dis-similar way back when (like say a 1000 Years ago). Ironically this was not the case with the "Crusading" European Christians.

Ultimately Rockpunk is correct - it does not matter what Jesus looked like. But then again - just for the sake of the debate (again I could not resist) - I think that the following is an
Accurate & Realistic depiction of what Jesus actually looked like:





[edit on 16-2-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]