I had no idea in some places you can be arrested for denying the Holocaust? Can someone please tell me more about this?
I understand that there is a desire to dicsuss this. Please use the search function to find any number of other threads that cover that topic. It is
simply going to take this topic too far off track.
but Nygdan, you say that 1/3 of the holocaust happened (2 million) and that is what this is about that is not so. The author covers three camps,
counting for a third of the total holocaust.
Ah i see.
Bit early isn´t it?
[for the 6 million count]
No, I don't see why its early.
The argument that you would not shave prisoners if you are going to kill them anyway. This is a point.
They didn't want lice and disease spreading throughout the population.
And, agian, question this, WHY are the prisoners in the FIRST place? Its because the nazis thought that the jews, as a people, culture, and practice,
are a problem that needs to be 'dealt' with. When you start installing secret gas chambers into such a situation, its pretty clear that the solution
to the problme isn't to move them out, re-educate them, or anything other than to kill them.
The nazis used the people in the camps as slaves. That means that they had to do basic things to keep the camp operational, such as dealing with head
lice, and rather than treat head lice, they just cut their hair off. They didn't do it to be nice or make the prisoners comfortable.
About the ability to kill humans with Diesel fumes. I have not researched, but appearantly it is very hard if not impossible to gas humans with
It should be pretty obvious that being stuffed into a room and having the air shut off but for diesel truck exhaust will kill you.
sel Fumes Kill 21,000 Americans Yearly
What's more, who cares
if diesel couldn't kill? Zyklon-B certainly does, and a methodological programme of starvation certainly does, and the
actual death counts clearly show that around 6 million jews went into the death camps, and only a tiny fraction ever made it out.
This is rather an interesting section, because if you are to systematically going to use gas to kill humans you would expect a hermetically
sealed area with double doors. Well not present.
This is false. The secret gas chambers at the camps had air-tight, pressure doors. They were NOT showers. THey had FAKE shower heads. They had drawers
for inserting zyklon-b in them, and the 'exit' door lead straight to the camp morgue.
7 & 8 no comment. Testimony cannot be trusted either way, only if there is supporting forensic evidence I will listen.
The forensic evidence clearly shows that they were using gas chambers and starvation and just plain old shootings to execute millions of jews.
As mentioned before, is februari 1943 not a bit early to start spreading the 6 million figure? The (...) killings have not even begun yet.
The killings most certainly had started at that point.
As far as there being a count at that point, clearly, there can't be. Who is saying that there was a count? Readers Digest? Considering that this
video seems to already be lying, I wouldn't take it's summary of a Reader's Digest article at face value. The article was written by Ben Hecht,
using data collecte dby a Dr. Greenburg, and it talked about 2 million jews having been killed already. Was the 6 million an extrapolation?
I would accept only experiments if they were of logical use to the Nazis
So people who witnessed these things can't give an accurate accounting, or docuemnts must be fake, if they don't seem like sensible experiments?
What is 'lrational' to a irrationialist like a nazi?
Basically the numbers do not add up if you try to place the claimed number of casualties in the ground, even six deep
Since they cremated many remains, hardly seems like a sensible claim. What mathematics prove this? We've already seen that the nazis could force an
astounding number of living people into small places, dead shriveled corpses should be even easier to stick into the ground.
The soap story at least is urban legend, debunked by Yad Vashem et al:
And what does Yad Vashem, Yehuda Bauer, et al, say about the holocaust itself?
They say it happened, and that it consumed around 6 million Jews.
True enough, there are untrue stories surrounding the holocaust, BUT, it is still true that the nazis planned to exterminate the jews in germany,
moved them into death camps, and killed around 6 million before they were defeated, many of which were annihliated in gas chambers.
Anyone questioning history as it happened should not be called or be classified as a Nazi./quote]
I think its fair enough to be convinced by a slick presentation. But the people that made that film are flat out liars, they are making stuff up and
distroting the facts to deny the holocaust. THere are plenty of serious researchers out there who've looked into the holocaust to sperate fact from
fiction, debunking some stories, getting accurate counts, etc. The people that made that film clearly are not 'honest, radical, historians', they
are promoting lies, to vilify the jews. They are neo-nazis.
Noone should be punished for researching the past.
If only that was what most holocaust deniers were actualy doing. THey're not. Rather, they are simply interested in covering up the holocaust,
reducing the number of people killed, and puting up more attacks on the jews.
It sure is. And if these records are tamper-proof, validated by several independent authorities and undisputed by all parties, I rest my case
and humbly apologize if I offended anyone by questioning history.
Short of an all powerful jewish conspiracy that magically made up all sorts of records and somehow dumped all these bodies into mass graves and moved
all these jews out of europe and fabricated every eyewitness account of the executions, both by prisoners and nazi's operating the camps and the
nazis weren't really all that bad and just wanted the jews to move......then we'll have to go with 'it happened, it was real, they killed around 6
I mean, you started out with 'i want to look at the evidence, and let it lead me', but now you are saying 'the evidence can't be trusted, because
the jews and zionists MIGHT have gotten to it.
Originally posted by sky1
. 6 million is figurative and religiously symbolic, not an actual number.
1919....6 million jews
The author of the article was an american catholic. He is talking about how there are around 7 million people after wwi that are in danger of
Are you now arguing that no jews suffered after WWI?
How does that refute the death counts anyway?
2). The Jewish population of Europe at the time and the Jewish population after the Holocaust are questionable if in fact 6 million JEWS
No, rather demographic studies support there being around 6 million deaths.
3). Zionists financially contributed to the National Socialist Party.
The Nazis would destroy anyone that didn't give them money, so what does it matter if some people you consider to be zionists ended up giving them
How does that undo 6 million murders?
4). Zionist leaders had MANY meetings with Hitler to discuss the removal of the Jewish peoples from Germany.
Again, what does it matter if some zionists were in talks to relocate jews to palestine, spain, etc?
5). The Jews in 1948, finally got their own 'homeland'.[/quote
]Yes, it was given to them by the British and the UN, long after the british had promised it to the, well before the start of WWII.
6). After WWII, (coincidental with #5 above) Chaim Weizmann submitted a memorandum on behalf of the Zionist Jewish Agency for Germany to pay
reparations to the Jews, so that the financial stability of Zionist Israel could be created.
So what? They should give the jewish state war reparations, after haveing tried to exterminate the jewish people.
Again, what does ANY of this have to do with the actual number of people murdered in the death camps as part of a plan to exterminate the jews?
It was WAR, people died, people starved, people had diseases.
People don't magically appear in gas chambers in war. And these people should'n't've ever been prisoners in teh first place, they were put there
because they were jews, and they were worked literally to death, purposefully, as part of a plan to 'rid germany of the jews'.
While German men were off fighting the jobs they had as civilians still needed to be done, materials for WAR needed to be created, hence the
term LABOR camps.
These were slave labour camps, and only 'undesirables' and soviet prisoners were put into them. If the nazis put people into camps, and didn't feed
them, even if they intended to feed them, then they are still responsible for their deaths.
And they DID NOT INTEND TO FEED THEM. They wanted to exterminate them, and did so in large part by scientifically rationing out their food to give
them enough strength to be able to perform the forced labour, until the next trainload of healthier prisoners showed up to obsolete them.
There were enemies of the state, hence the term PRISON camps.
The Jews were NOT enemies of the state. They were innocent GERMAN civilians.
Whether or not we agree with who should be deemed an enemy of the state is completely irrelevant.
No. Its the entire point. The nazis beleived that all jews were enemies of the state, and needed to be destroyed. Thats what the holocaust IS.
what matters is the reality of what OCCURRED
And what really, and plainly, occured, was that the nazis planned to exterminate the jews, and managed to systematically kill 6 million of them.
The Zionists wanted the Jews out, the German leadership wanted the Jews out. They BOTH colluded to get this done. FACT.
Its true that zionists wanted to have the jews have the option to leave germany for zion. Thats a fact. THe distortion is that they worked with the
nazis to create the holocaust. The distortion is that the fact that the zionists were smart enough to want a homeland for the jews to avoid the
persecution that they were experiencing, somehow legitimatizes the holocaust, or somehow contradicts the fact that the holcaust happened.
That is incorrect. The "gas chamber" that is on show in Auschwitz has a chimney that we are told was to allow the gaseous Zyklon-B to escape
the chamber before the Jewish workers entered to collect the bodies. This gas would of easily drifted over the Commandants own living
And just WTF is a series of vents and a chimney doing attached to a 'shower' in the first place eh?
Why does the 'shower' not have any working plumbing behind its fake shower-heads?
And what does any of it matter, since the nazis had de-parasitizing fumigation chambers right next to the death chambers that used toxic gas on
clothing, and that clearly the commandant wasn't so stupid as to have his quarters sitting in wafts of toxic gas???
Odd that you would cite IHR as proof that there were no gas chambers at aushwitz, when they offered a $50,000 to anyone that could prove they existed,
and ended up paying it to a camp surivor.
They reconstructed the gas chambers since the buildings claimed to be "gas chambers" were destroyed.
There is aerial photography showing that the chambers, vents and all, existed, if the eyewitness accounts of prisoners and camp operators isn't
enough. There are chamber blue prints, forms to order the zyklon-b, foresnic evidence that they were being used to exterminate human beings, etc.