Hvitserk[size=5]
ok now to the point : in most european countries ,
denying the holocaust is considered as
"thought crime" and punished by fines and even prison
sentences[/size]
[size=5]Please do not start that topic, we have many threads covering that specific topic, a discussion of the holocaust is going to be raucus enough, we don't need an extra disctraction. [/size]
Originally posted by Akareyon
it's not easy for me to mold my thoughts into english words.
Really? I wouldn't've guessed. Your english is excellent.
It makes it even harder for me if you're playing rough.
Fair enough. But if I sound 'rough' its only because I try to be exacting in what I am saying. I don't personally have anything against most of the people on the site.
Yes, I'm sometimes so paranoid that when somebody says "good morning" I look at my watch to verify it's not past twelve yet.
But it's full of quotes from official, public sources and, whatever its author's intentions may be, it can easily be used as propagande.
We can have statements that, say, contradict some individual's story, but that doesn't really matter, we have other accounts that aren't contradicted, often from SS officers and camp operators themselves, and we have physical evidence, in terms of the physical infrastructure of hte camps, with gas chambers, and official documents tabulating the processes.
That's why it is so potentially dangerous and should be seriously and openly discussed in a place like ATS.
I think that discussion is great, I don't think that our members are actual nazis in disguise. I think that many of the holocaust denier 'historians' out there, however, are frauds, they're not historians, they're nazis. Because the evidence isn't at all in their favour, and they know it, but they push propaganda anyway.
subz
Has any one ever considered why the alleged "gas chamber" was situated next door to the living quarters of the Camp Commandant and his family?
Subs, its a gas chamber. It has doors that seal pressure tight, so none of the air in it can leak out. It has powerful vents, to clear the room of the gas after it was used. It has drawers with wire mesh so that the Zyklon-B crystals can be put in and allowed to work. It has fake shower heads. And the door on the other side opens directly into the camp's morgue.
They stuffed people in one door, gased them to death, and then pulled them out the other door into the morgue.
until scholars forced the camp custodians to erect a sign stating the chambers are American built and not actually built by the Nazis.
The scholars never ONCE said that the gas chambers didn't exist. The americans didn't build gas chambers, they were already there.
Auschwitz's official death toll was revised downwards from 4 million dead, to 1 million combined Jewish and Gentile
And how did they manage to systematically kill 1 million people at that one location subz? It was through the gas chambers and starvation programme.
As far as that meaning that there was 'not all that many' jews that died in the holocaust:
www.nizkor.org...
The Soviet estimate, however, was made purely on the basis of the following calculus involving the estimated daily incineration capacity and the number of days the Kremas (i.e.crematoria and gas chambers) were in operation [...]It should be pointed, however, that this erroneous Soviet estimate in no way diminishes the Jewish death toll in the Holocaust of six million victims nor the total Holocaust death toll of twelve million victims[...]it should be most emphatically pointed out that the mainstream of historians and Holocaust researchers have never concurred with the Soviet estimate for the death toll at Auschwitz. [...] statistics regarding the number of transports bound for Auschwitzdo not add up to anywhere near four million people, indicating thatthe Kremas were frequently idle for days at a time. Another is thatthe Kremas were often subject to breakdowns which idled them for weeksat a time. (In the case of Krema IV, it was only operational for a fewweeks before irreparable damage to its furnaces idled it permanently.)In fact, the daily incineration capacity of the Kremas caused such asevere bottleneck during Aktion Höss (i.e. the extermination ofthe Hungarian Jews in the summer of 1944) that the SS had to resort tousing incineration pits in addition to the Kremas to get rid of thebodies.
Israeli scholar Yehuda Bauer along side Israel’s Yad Vashem Holocaust Center.
And how many people do they say were killed during the holocaust subz?
www1.yadvashem.org...
More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million.
en.wikipedia.org...
Bauer believes that Hitler was the key figure in causing the Holocaust, and that at some point in the later half of 1941, he gave a series of orders for the genocide of the entire Jewish people[...]He has often taken exception to those who argue that the Holocaust was just another genocide. Though he agrees that there have been other genocides in history that have targeted groups other than Jews, he argues that the Holocaust was the worst single case of genocide in history, in which every member of a nation was selected for annihilation, and that it therefore holds a special place in human history
and
Deduct the nearly six million Jews, and you have many more than Wiesenthal’s five million[...] To call what happened to the non-Jewish victims ‘the Holocaust’ is ‘simply’ false.
So far from this guy saying that there was no holocaust, he was saying that there was a holocaust, and that it was entirely focused on the jews, and killed around 6 million of them.
tom goose
Israel, smack dab in the middle of jerusilum. how convenient.
So what are you saying, that they made up the holocaust or not? What was convenient about it? The british had promised them the holy land long before the holocaust, and if it finalized their handing it over, so what? You're saying that you don't know if the holocaust happened or not, why? What evidence contradicts that there was a holocaust of around 6 million jews?????
We've got two pages of comments now, and still, no evidence.
[edit on 2-2-2007 by Nygdan]
). One member says the Holocaust took place, then someone else comes to
the thread and says the prisoners had pools, theatres, it was 4m that died, not 6m, etc...etc... 
