Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
Let's compare this to sleeper.


admin edit:

let's NOT This thread needs to get back on TOPIC NOW. If you want to start a Vet sleeper thread go start one. The guy is sharing PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, he is NOT asking anyone to believe him or claiming to be a Government Agent or anything else but a guy who has contact with aliens.

ENOUGH.

Springer...

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Springer]

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Springer]

K.



Sleeper's thread, "coming clean on extraterrestrials" has taken a gigantic turn in a bunch of directions. I create this thread on the premise that sleeper's data is for the most part factual. But I am a homo sapien, and could have done the exact same thing he did with creativity. This is why i'm here, and this is why I can't completely buy the story... yet.

Because of this, we need more threads as Springer has suggested. There are numerous questions one can ask based upon two premises:

A) sleeper is a fraud.

B) sleeper is a gift.

Now let me start with these are questions I have for A- some that have yet to be answered and asked countless times in many forms.

*What proof has the ATS staff been supplied with to warrant such respect?
*Has anyone on the ATS staff had sleeper's story confirmed by anyone else besides John Lear?
*Why have members been banned that raise questions based upon their own understanding that contradicts sleeper?
*Has anyone on the ATS staff had a meeting with sleeper, or a meeting with his stated contact and jailer/superior Milton?

Now onto the premise of sleeper being 100% factual.

*Why can't sleeper ask the question, asked by both me and GLDNGUN, "Was ET wrong to put is in jail?" (the stated reason sleeper says humans are on Earth- it's purpose being a prison)
*What other venues is sleeper fulfilling his mission on? Or is it just ATS?
*Why, in all the countless years of history as beings, have sleeper and Milton decided to tell part of the world about their version of truth?
*Connected to the above, what global event might sleeper be preparing humanity for?

I'd like these questions to be answered, as sleeper's thread has catapulted into territories unfit for the thread as stated by ATS owners and staff. In this thread, remember all TAC and guidlines... and be civil. I did not create this thread to be a dung-fest, rather a scrutinous examination of the biggest thread on ATS A&U.

admin edit: The title was NOT ATS quality, it is now. Also, this will NOT be a "bash sleeper" thread, Carry on...

[edit on 1-2-2007 by IamnomanasIamallman]

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Springer]

I found it odd that he was detailing his story in the form of a screenplay and had no means of even attempting to prove the validity of his story. I figure he's hoping he can garner enough hits on the blog to verify someone purchasing the rights to his screenplay.

I also am somewhat puzzled by the amount of attention he's still getting. Without any real attempts to prove his story, people still keep coming back. At least the serpans and the titors tried to pass off pics and docs as proof. this guy has a script.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
*Has anyone on the ATS staff had sleeper's story confirmed by anyone else besides John Lear?

I respectfully request that we start this thread off on the right foot and not include any inaccurate information in the very first post of this thread.

That said, how did I confirm sleeper's story? I don't remember saying anything but that it sounded real to me. I never met sleeper in person. I never met Milton. I never went for a ride in a flying saucer with sleeper. I never went to Uranus with sleeper. I never read sleepers books. So whats this about me confirming sleeper's story?

There is enough bs thrown around here that you don't have to make up any. So let me respectfully request that you either tell me how I confirmed sleepers story and how I was able to do that -or- apologize for trying to sneak in erroneous informaton so as to try and confuse the issue or try and make it seem like I have some secret connection with sleeper.

Confirmed sleeper's story? What a load. Nice start thereAluminumAluminum.

john they probably say you say sleeper is correct because you said you got this and that from sleeper, on c2c. you advised george noorey that sleeper had some great info.

were you not saying then that you believe sleeper and his story on c2c. from what the audience heard you were endorsing what he was saying, this is where people probably judge you to believe in him.

i will listen again over next few days to try to find exactly what you said, but is was something similar.

Sorry John.

Originally posted by johnlear
Just in case there is any question about it I back sleeper 110%. That is to say I believe everything he has to say and I don't believe that he has misrepresented himself or his ideas in any way.

I saw Bob Lazar live through this same kind flak for years. Stories about his education, qualifications and revelations about S-4. Some were valid, some were not. For instance, I personally saw Bob's degree from MIT. How did it disappear? How come it doesn't appear in any records? Beats me.

But I know this: Bob Lazar told the truth about everything he said he did and I believe sleeper is telling the truth about everything he said he did.

Regarding sleepers book or books I clearly remembering him mentioning this in the "Are Extraterrestrials Real?" thread. If I felt it mattered in the slightest I would slog through 110 pages and find it. But don't think it matters, it certainly doesn't matter to me.

What matters is that both Bob Lazar and sleeper have incredibly interesting stories to tell and I personally enjoy listening to every word. And oh, by the way, yes, I believe every word both Lazar and sleeper has told.

So all I would respectfully ask is your indulgence in keeping your questions for me polite and not hurling them onto the board as if each was an insult. Thanks.

MODS: Quote represented in full to show entire message of last communication John Lear had supporting sleeper 110%.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman


A) sleeper is a fraud.

B) sleeper is a gift.

"Black and white" fallacy. Trying to force a choice into "A" or "B" will likely lead to a false conclusion.

*What proof has the ATS staff been supplied with to warrant such respect?

You're of the opinion sleeper garners more respect from staff than other members. I disagree.

*Has anyone on the ATS staff had sleeper's story confirmed by anyone else besides John Lear?

The story has not been confirmed by anyone. Not even John Lear, who merely states he believes it to be true. His right, is it not?

*Why have members been banned that raise questions based upon their own understanding that contradicts sleeper?

People get banned for their behaviour, not their opinions.

*Has anyone on the ATS staff had a meeting with sleeper, or a meeting with his stated contact and jailer/superior Milton?

I'm sure you know the answer to this. If it's happened we haven't been told. And if we haven't been told by now, we aren't going to be.

*Why can't sleeper ask the question, asked by both me and GLDNGUN, "Was ET wrong to put is in jail?" (the stated reason sleeper says humans are on Earth- it's purpose being a prison)
*What other venues is sleeper fulfilling his mission on? Or is it just ATS?
*Why, in all the countless years of history as beings, have sleeper and Milton decided to tell part of the world about their version of truth?
*Connected to the above, what global event might sleeper be preparing humanity for?

Very speculative. Good luck with that.

[Edit to add]
Whew! Responses beat me to it. I should've known this would pick up steam fast.

Didn't mean to answer for John Lear, just relaying what I've observed and how I view it. There's a difference between "confirming" and "supporting" in my opinion.

[edit on 2/1/2007 by yeahright]

Is it appropriate in this thread to discuss what book sleeper wrote, so that we can individually read the book and decide his probable veracity?

Originally posted by niv
Is it appropriate in this thread to discuss what book sleeper wrote, so that we can individually read the book and decide his probable veracity?

yep, tell us. does he have a real name, or aren't we supposed to know

[edit on 2/1/2007 by andy1033]

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
*Why have members been banned that raise questions based upon their own understanding that contradicts sleeper?

I think that we should stick to the issue of whether or not sleeper himself is a hoax.

Personally, I feel like questioning the integrity of the Admins here at ATS is a losing battle. People that were banned because of their actions on "Coming clean..." deserved to be banned.

Including the [sarcasm] shady [/sarcasm] actions of Springer in the foundation of this thread only smears mud across an already cloudy picture.

For those of you who are going to now accuse me of being an "Admin shill" let me save you the time:

Not a shill, just a fan and someone who believes in giving credit and respect where it is due.

Originally posted by niv
Is it appropriate in this thread to discuss what book sleeper wrote, so that we can individually read the book and decide his probable veracity?

I know but I will not reveal that. I think that's Hank Mccoy's job.

I have asked Springer how much info I am able to give on sleeper, and how far we are able to dig into his past and how much of that we are able to post here.

When I get an answer, you will get as much information as I am able to relay.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source con·firm (kən-fûrm') Pronunciation Key
tr.v. con·firmed, con·firm·ing, con·firms

To support or establish the certainty or validity of; verify.
To make firmer; strengthen: Working on the campaign confirmed her intention to go into politics.
To make valid or binding by a formal or legal act; ratify.
To administer the religious rite of confirmation to.



WordNet - Cite This Source supporting

adjective
1. furnishing support and encouragement; "the anxious child needs supporting and accepting treatment from the teacher" [syn: encouraging]
2. capable of bearing a structural load; "a supporting wall" [syn: load-bearing]

noun
1. the act of bearing the weight of or strengthening; "he leaned against the wall for support" [syn: support]

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University



Care to share the difference? Oh woops, first word is confirm, second is support. All results gathered via www.dictionary.com

Thanks in advance.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by IamnomanasIamallman]

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
Sorry John.

Thanks ImmelmannImmelmann. I appreciate that apology.

Its one thing to believe a persons story and quite another to confirm it. But I think you know that now.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman

Care to share the difference? Oh woops, first word is confirm, second is support. All results gathered via www.dictionary.com

Be glad to. I can support an individual without confirming their story, can I not? Or is that too subtle a difference?

Don't respond too quickly. Feel free to consult a Scientology handbook, if you need to.

well im a sleeper fan, and a john lear fan as well.

but why dont one of you guys in this thread U2U me the name of sleepers book?

i want to read it

[edit on 1-2-2007 by moderndayHanSolo]

Originally posted by moderndayHanSolo
well im a sleeper fan, and a john lear fan as well.

but why dont one of you guys in this thread U2U me the name of sleepers book?

i want to read it

[edit on 1-2-2007 by moderndayHanSolo]

As I have told you repeatedly in u2u's, Mike, I will relay the information as soon as I get the okay, if I get the okay.

sleeper can't do it, as it is a breach of the T&C to do it, and seeing as it reveals his personal information, it is against the T&C for anyone else to do it without sleeper's permission. So short of sleeper giving his permission or getting a veto of the T&C from an admin, I dont think anyone is going to do it yet.

I'll confess that I stopped even reading sleepers stuff after the whole "playing pool with aliens and banging hot alien chicks at the space mall" thing.

However, if this person has written a book , screenplay and 300 page thread than his name is already out there in the public domain. He has already given up his anonymity.
What would be the problem of releasing it and looking into his past?

[edit on 1-2-2007 by Tiloke]

However, if this person has written a book , screenplay and 300 page thread than his name is already out there in the public domain. He has already given up his anonymity.
What would be the problem of releasing it and looking into his past?

[edit on 1-2-2007 by Tiloke]

Actually in the other thread he claimed to have self-published two books. I'm not asking for names (although I agree with Tiloke's post and think the secrecy is a bit silly), but has anyone confirmed the existence of the second book and does it cover the same alien subject?

I know this is the first and only time I will visit this thread and I am sure most of you really won't care.... so after I write this you can say anything about me you choose.

With this subject things do change and understandings are interrupted the best they can be by the experiencer.

You wonder why more abductees/experiencers don't come forward. I have noticed if words are not written or spoken correctly or things chance in the slightest you are tarred and feathered. This very thing is happening now on the news with words taken in ways that were not meant from Biden.

If you disagree with Sleeper you should have U2U'ed him and handled it that way.

Many here on this site enjoying Sleepers thread no matter if it was correct or not and the ones that disagreed could have handled themselves .....

I will not ask you all a question because I am not coming back to this thread so I will just state that I have no respect for anyone that intentionally puts out an idenity just to prove a point.

I am so deeply saddened by all of this

Unless he has a pen name, amazon.com shows he has written one book in 1997.

And John, I was saying sorry that I was going ahead to show dictionary proof, as well as written proof, as to why you have said you support/vouch for/agree with/confirm sleeper's story 110%.

Thanks john for making fun of my name so many times, it only shows what you resort to when losing an argument.