IamnomanasIamallman, I think this thread is a good idea as long it doesn't become a witch hunt, like SLURPO did to Shawnna.

I believe sleeper, purely because at the end of the day no harm will personally come to me. God forbid I may be wrong... it won't be the first time.

That said, I am happy to view evidence that could sway my belief, but I don't think I will participating.

John Lear, try copy and paste for IamnomanasIamallman name, respectfully, it is a nice thing to try. Keeping the peace at all costs right!

OSS

I get the feeling he's just doing this to stir up drama for a books he's going to write, fiction or not.

Originally posted by Dallas
I have questioned both owners and moderators here, I have always received a response to an enquiry. One of many good things I can say about both is, their open an honest and I feel they really [care] about the health of Above Top Secret and ATS Members.

I feel like you may have misinterpreted my post.
I agree with you 100%.

May I be totally wacked by IamIam's Navy Seal prolific killing machine friend if I'm lying.

That is not what i'm implying at all. What I am implying, is John takes extreme pleasure in his hardened vision of himself and nasty jokes. I am letting him know that after being around such a dominant and frankly- abusive person, that I will not go over the edge from someone like John trying to catch me at a bad time so I will get warned or banned. In simple terms, John is nothing compared to that person.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
removed personal insult

[edit on 1/2/07 by masqua]

There is more jumbled up incorrect, inaccuracies in this thread already than just about any I remember, and I remember ALOT of them.

First, sleeper NEVER said it was "illegal" to release his name, I DID, and in only in the sense that we don't do that here unless the person who belongs to the name says it's OK.

Now if that is so hard to fathom on face value, then see my signature.

No I have never met with sleeper and neither has anyone on the staff ever. Not even so much as an email (don't know his email address).

Sorry to burst the conspiracy bubble here folks, But IT REALLY IS just this simple:

sleeper is a good writer with a story that seems to ring true with LOTS of people and I WILL MAKE SURE THOSE PEOPLE GET TO READ IT if they so desire.

We don't allow the derailing of threads by the envious, the ignorant or the just plain mean. Anyone who was banned over the past couple days fits those descriptions and refused to quit after several warning shots.

There is NO CONNECTION between sleeper and ATS staff, company or owners PERIOD.

If his books/screenplays or bowling balls sell like hotcakes because he has attracted people here at ATS then GOOD FOR HIM! He never ONCE tried to make that happen, matter of fact he CLEARLY stated the reason he did NOT want to mention the name of his books (in the other thread) was he did not want the baggage of being accused of trying to sell them through his sharing here!

My patience is at its end with people who can't "get this" I suggest that if you have no legitimate questions and are only interested in spreading false crap you move on or I will move you on.

Springer...

Springer I don't mean to be a you-know-what, but please check this out:

Originally posted by sleeper
Through unscrupulous and illegal means Hank and another member want to release my identity on this internet sight without my permission.

That info might actually benefit me because it would disclose a book about the Roswell incident that I self published in 1997---I have not advertised that book and it languishes mostly unread.

I have not mentioned that book because for one I would be violating the rules of ATS---of promoting my book.

Hank is a disinformation guy ---yet should he release my identity he could be defeating his purpose to shut me up and get me national exposure---

And further, I don't get why John can make fun of my name with the likes of "Allimuniummal" "Illuminamanm" and "Emelleman", but when I call him silly, I get edited by a moderator. Double-standard.

ok, since I first brought up the selling of the script thing, let me apologize. I had no idea it was an issue on the other thread. I stopped reading it a while back. while not naming himself might not help his book sales, his site's hits could help sell the script but that is no against the rules so it doesn't matter either way.

my apologies for raising a thought that was apparently covered and clearly does not need to be mentioned any more

Ever take notice of the police car speeding past you at 90 m.p.h. when the speed limit is 70? Laws can Be broken by those who make them. From a truthfull perspective We all made them and We all work for the "government".

We allow stories to Be told and allow people to Be miss informed when We know it is all simply "made up". If it can Not Be proven that is made up any more than it can Be proven to Be fact, then why are his stories even tolerated?

"1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate." Taken from the T&C

Are Not moderators supposed to moderate content and Not defend character and/or stories? Are We supposed to Be taking sides when it comes to this?

Deny ignorance or promote diss information? Can Not sleeper defend him self? He all ways appears very capable of insulting and bashing others. I've never had a Moderator defend me Nor have I seen moderators defend any one else... except of course "names" such as "jonhlear" and "sleeper", 2 individuals that blatantly and obviously attack character and insult other members of this web site.

Why is a moderator defending some one's story? Is there a vested interest in this story? Perhaps the traffic it attracts helps? Or a promotion from Mr. lear on c2c? Coming clean on the subject is better than denying untill We are caught in the act of lying.

It seems as if this story is Being used to promote this site. The way it is handled appears to Be biased. This feels very shady and untrustworthy.

Okay, I'm going to go post a story on here and if any one questions me and my unconsistencies, I expect you to ban them and/or defend me.

It IS like a ghost town on here, like a bunch of people walking around insulting each other who can Not seem to, for the life of life, stop and listen to what each other have to say. What has Been going on on here is very obvious for any free thinking intellect to see, it can Be "denied" for ever, but truth will all ways over come, and in the case of sleeper, it has.

Today I read a Moderator using the word batch in place of... well, We all know what it really means.

And the acronyms WTF and BS are rampant? Are We trying to create a breeding ground of hatred? I am having a lot of trouble comprehending what is going on lately, yet No trouble at all, because that is exactly how I comprehend it, it makes No sense.

Injoy the conversation and the political bickering that comes with it. My venting is over with and my other jobs i.e. helping Humanity because I am Humanity, will Be tended too.

In the end, do what you want, it is Our free will, but when We are caught with Our hand in the cookie jar all We can do is try and drop the cookie... the hand has all ready incriminated its self.

When I write my fairly tale am I allowed to come on here and spread the false information for a promotion? We can break the law as long as it benefits business?

[edit on 1-2-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Insightful post... you made your point very clear LOTVE... thanks.

Crakeur...In making the below statement, You may be on the way to answering your own question:

"Hell, all the great hoaxers have had pictures and/or videos."


Sleeper doesnt have any......


But you haven't offered a succinct response to Annee's question: "If it happened to you - how would you prove it?"

Photos?....never be accepted...as you stated, they can be faked.


You say you don't believe sleepers story. There may be a distinction to be drawn between not believing his story...and not understanding his experience.....

Peace &
Good Fortune
OBE1

Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by Annee
Crakeur - - just One Question.
If it happened to you - how would you prove it?
Do you seriously believe if this is true - - the ET's let him have a Kodak moment?

Let me start with the obvious statement that I don't believe what he says.

That said, how would I prove it? If I did half the things he claims he did with aliens, I'd find a way to come up with something that would at least be an attempt to back up my claim. Pictures and videos can be faked but they would be a start.

Hell, all the great hoaxers have had pictures and/or videos. Billy Meier had his photos, Titor had his photos, etc. They were all found to be fakes. If I had the real deal, people would still say it was a fake but they wouldn't be able to prove it, thus leaving the door open. Without offering a single thing, other than a story, you make it very hard to take it seriously. Then you delve into hot alien sex and billiards and, well, you've got soft core alien porn like the crapola you see on skinamax after midnight.

So basically what you are saying - - is it can't be proven.

Well look at your very long name. Very hard to remember that.

You have been on ATS for 2 weeks. You came and jumped right in this Sleeper "Story" and seemed to make it personal with him.
If he or his story bother you so much, just put him on ignore.
How hard is that to do?

I get a strange feeling of some "sock puppetry" going on in this thread.
No proof on my end but a feeling.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
Springer I don't mean to be a you-know-what, but please check this out:


And further, I don't get why John can make fun of my name with the likes of "Allimuniummal" "Illuminamanm" and "Emelleman", but when I call him silly, I get edited by a moderator. Double-standard.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by sandman658]

[edit on 1-2-2007 by sandman658]

Originally posted by OBE1
Crakeur...In making the below statement, You may be on the way to answering your own question:

I have no questions regarding this story.

Originally posted by OBE1
Peace &
Good Fortune

back atcha

I believe that sleeper believes in his experiences...and I don't mean that in a negative way.

Reading between the lines, he is very intelligent, articulate, and has a strong sense of values - especially when it comes to his family and children. He also has a great sense of humor.

If Sleeper is anything like I think he is, I would be proud to call him friend and would undoubtfully put some trust in him.

If he was not all of these things and more, I wouldn't put an ounce of trust in anything he had to say without some evidence or proof.

That being said, because of the person that I see by reading his post - it lends (at least for me) some measure of credibility to his story.

Even though I have never had any sort of alien experience or sighting, I know plenty of credible people who have. The sheer number of individuals who have had some sort of experience should make everyone question what is really going on.

In order for me to be 100% sure, I would like to have proof also, but nobody that I know of has any real proof of ET, so why should Sleeper be any different?

Until we do have proof, I would like to hear and read about others experiences without all the debunkers shooting the messenger.

Originally posted by sandman658
Well look at your very long name. Very hard to remember that.

You have been on ATS for 2 weeks. You came and jumped right in this Sleeper "Story" and seemed to make it personal with him.
If he or his story bother you so much, just put him on ignore.
How hard is that to do?

I get a strange feeling of some "sock puppetry" going on in this thread.
No proof on my end but a feeling.

You know I was thinking the same thing but alas it's not s unless new ISPs were bought.

I can tel you that "FunBags" was a returning banned member though, pretty EASY to figure out which one too,

In any case there isn't any socks being played with that we can tell.

Springer...

Originally posted by alienarena

Until we do have proof, I would like to hear and read about others experiences without all the debunkers shooting the messenger.

I PLEDGE to YOU, alienarena, as long as we (the THREE AMIGOS) own AboveTopSecret.com you will be able to!

Now, that does NOT mean people won't be able to ask questions in a CIVIL, POLITE, "Friendly Conversational Tone" however. Even questions that challenge the voracity/honesty of the writer.

the following is NOT directed at the quoted poster:

It's the people who have NO social grace and jump in someone's face with an acidic, demanding tone that get the AXE.

We are a community of GROWN UPS, we will act like one too. People who think someone OWES them an answer will find out they DON'T. People who think this community NEEDS them to expose frauds FOR us will find out we DON'T.

Nothing is a bigger turn OFF than a demanding, snide, whiney, no-it-all sounding, buttheaded meantard.

Again, ask away(!) but do so like you would when talking to a friend or you will not last long around here.

Springer...

[edit on 2-1-2007 by Springer]

OK. I've caught up on the sleeper developments that I mised out on when I stopped following his posts.

At first I was really mad. I thought," How does this guy expect us to believe this crap?" As I kept reading, I see it more as a work of fiction than actual events. There are some parts that "ring true" in my mind , but that could be due to good writing. It is a good, well written and entertaining story though.

It does surprise me that he will not even address the proven inconsistencies in his tales of space travel and contact. When you combine that with the fact that he has already written 2 books and a screenplay about extra-terrestrials , It seems like he is testing out ideas for his next book and ironing out the wrinkles in his story before its released.

Him telling us he wrote a couple of books and than telling us he wont tell us what they are could be a clever marketing strategy. Like Eric Cartman telling everyone they cant go to his amusement park, making everyone want to go and boosting sales.

Springer , I'm glad you saw the humor in my UTU, for a second there I thought I laid it on to thick and was about to get banned..



[edit on 1-2-2007 by Tiloke]

Originally posted by alienarena

Reading between the lines, he is very intelligent, articulate, and has a strong sense of values -

Nothing personal against you alienarena, but can't the same thing be said about a whole lot of people? It has been said about Ann Coulter. Need I say more?

All those that believe sleeper's story are entitled to believe him, as you are in essence entitled to believe anything given that you hurt no one else in the process.

But I personally don't believe sleeper, because I need evidence at the very least. I can't prove that he's lying, but I shouldn't have to. He should provide evidence that he's telling the truth. Unless he doesn't care if I or anyone else believes him, which I'm fairly sure is the case.

I don't know what his motives are, humble or grand, right, wrong, or somewhere in between, and I don't wish to speculate on them.

He could be right, and maybe there just isn't any proof resulting from his experiences, but the same can be said about anything and just isn't worthy of a resulting belief in my humble opinion, including my divine experience in the presence of His Grace The Most Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster.

although I believe I retained a Holy Noodle from the encounter, and promptly misplaced it before I could show it to anyone, feel free to believe me if you want to.

Bururururur it just got very cold in here when you mentioned Coulter. Burururururur. Not to get off topic, but that woman scares the bajesus out of me-- psycho.

OK - let's try this again.

Ball of Pop - - if you were Sleeper how would you provide proof for your experience?

And it is Not so much that I believe Sleeper - - I believe Me.

Other people have had experiences - - and they usually can tell what is and isn't.