Nothing personal against you alienarena, but can't the same thing be said about a whole lot of people? It has been said about Ann Coulter. Need I say more?

No offense taken Given time a sheep in wolf's clothing will show himself. For now, I am content to read Sleeper's accounts and wonder about the mysteries of the universe.

If he does turn out to be a fanatical hoaxer - I can claim that I had many hours of enjoyable reading...even though it might be fictional.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
Bururururur it just got very cold in here when you mentioned Coulter. Burururururur. Not to get off topic, but that woman scares the bajesus out of me-- psycho.

Did I go too far on that one?

And to answer your questions Annee, I don't know how I would go about it. I have never had an experience of anything paranormal [except for the aformentioned Spaghetti Monster encounter, peace and blessings be upon his name ]

However you would think if you actually met an alien he might have given you something to show other people, like some sort of gadget.

You're very right, we don't know what is and what isn't! So my method is to disbelieve or remain neutral on before I believe, otherwise I would have to believe everything everyone said. Its a flawed method I'll admit, but if you have a better one I'm all ears. [not in a snide way, I'm serious]

I personally can't believe Sleeper's story, simply because to me it sounds crazy, but as i've said in the past i think Sleeper is a good person and comes across as someone with conviction and a decent set of morals.

To me it doesn't matter what someone believes in, as long as they are decent people.

Originally posted by Annee
So basically what you are saying - - is it can't be proven.

Information can be proven as accurate or inaccurate. sleeper has insinuated that he knows the whereabouts of Atlantis. Would verifible information about the whereabouts of Atlantis prove the Mr. Baldin (sleeper) has information that is from aliens? No. But it would be another step in the right direction.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by HankMcCoy]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Trimmed triple nested quote

[edit on 2/2/07 by masqua]

Hey Pop - - nothing personal.

Just so many have been asking (some demanding) proof.

Maybe Sleeper can set up an interview on Larry King with Milton and himself.

Do you see how silly that is?

Originally posted by Annee
OK - let's try this again.

Ball of Pop - - if you were Sleeper how would you provide proof for your experience?

And it is Not so much that I believe Sleeper - - I believe Me.

Other people have had experiences - - and they usually can tell what is and isn't.

The problem is that there are several pardoxes and conundrums within the story, part of which is that it is "proved" to be true by its inability to be proven true.

For example, "Sleeper" says that "ET" will not allow actual proof, and that "ET" is in complete control of everything. If "Sleeper" were to now produce some sort of actual "proof" that "ET" didn't want to come to light, it might "prove" a part of his story; however, it would disprove that "ET" is in complete control. In essence, it would prove and disprove his story at the same time.

How many people have claimed to have a close encounter of the 4th kind? Many. How many have produced actual proof? Is hypnotic progression actual proof? I wouldn't say so, but perhaps it shows that "something" is happening. Are strange markings on the body proof? Are unknown biological "chips" removed from "abductees" actual proof? These things may lend some credibility to an "experiencer" but is not definitive proof.

What further clouds "Sleeper's" story is his admission that "ET" can implant false memories that are as real as actual ones. False memories are just that - FALSE. LIES. DECEPTION. In other words, his "source" is an admitted pathological liar, yet, "Sleeper" would have you believe that "ET" hasn't lied to him. To those that believe that, I would simply ask them to explain why "ET" is lying to their other "abductees" and what makes their stories any less credible than the one in question here.

Again, many have claimed continued abductions with "aliens", yet the more in-depth information an "experiencer" has, the less it seems to match up with other "abductees" in-depth stories. By that, I mean those that simply a basic abduction usually have very similar stores - detestable creatures doing detestable things to them; however, those that have extended contact with "ET" and delve into motives and agenda rarely agree. One person might say "ET"'s message to humanity is "X", another will say "Y", and yet another "Z".

Sleeper's "ET" "revelations" are a bit unusual due to the lack of any "imending doom" about to overtake humankind if we don't "change our ways" (whatever that means).

The point is, the messages are rarely the same and often contradictory. "Sleeper's" tale is also fairly unique. Assuming that "Sleeper" and the others are truthfully relating their experience to the best of their ability, I think there's one logical conclusion to drawn - NONE of them can be trusted. Not because they are liars, but because their "source" is.

If the police were looking for witnesses to come forward to report what they saw at the scene of a crime, they initially would take their statements and see what the balance of the evidence points to. If the witnesses independently agree with each other, the police likely have reliable witnesses and a good case. Now, what happens if all the witnesses contradict each other on various important points? It won't make much of a case and the police will have little idea of what actually happened.

If that weren't bad enough, what if all the witnesses said "we were on drugs that makes it impossible for us to tell the difference between reality and fantasy?"

There will be no "proof" forthcoming from "Sleeper". He would be the first one to say it and probably already has.

I haven't read the full thread but i feel i should put my 2 cents in. I did read alot of sleepers stuff until it just became completely unrealistic to me i think he is fake along the lines of many other authors pushing an agenda and a story thats all it is is a story.

is this just a big buildup to "sleepers" book...seems like this is what this whole dramatic thread has been talking about. There are enough clues in this thread to find his book for 12.95 or whatever on amazon.com....

Mods should delete this...its bringing the sites reputation down. Soon half the threads on here will be ads for peoples books.

Its like a movie with Product placement in it.

I liked where the thread was headed in the first post or 2, now i feel like we have all been taken for a ride.

Originally posted by BallOfPopulation

"His Grace The Most Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster."

BallOpopulation, I take it you've met my son.

At this point sleeper is simply presenting his experiences, and doing his best to field related questions. I would wager that even most 'experiencers' are left with far more questions than answers...sleeper appears to be exceptional in this regard, and has displayed an open willingness to share to the extent that he is able.

Some have a frame of reference for this material...some don't...and others probably aren't sure.

If there's an agenda beyond this...it will expose itself eventually.

By all means....suspend belief.

Peace &
Good Fortune
ONE1

"There's another way to phrase that and that is that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It is basically saying the same thing in a different way. Simply because you do not have evidence that something does exist does not mean that you have evidence that it doesn't exist." - Rumi

If I had a story that was going to change/save the world I would never sell it.

I would give it away.

If I just had a story, I would give you a peek/preview to get you interested.

Then I would make you buy the rest.

This is what I would do.

Anyways,
Sleeper has gotten my attention with all of the attention being paid. I even tried to find his book. Oh I feel like a worm on a hook. I have to know the whole story now.

Originally posted by origin
is this just a big buildup to "sleepers" book...seems like this is what this whole dramatic thread has been talking about. There are enough clues in this thread to find his book for 12.95 or whatever on amazon.com....

Mods should delete this...its bringing the sites reputation down. Soon half the threads on here will be ads for peoples books.

Its like a movie with Product placement in it.

I liked where the thread was headed in the first post or 2, now i feel like we have all been taken for a ride.

Uhm, exactly what ride have you taken, except to participate in a totally free discussion on a totally free internet site? sleeper DID NOT WANT to promote himself as an author because he came HERE to talk about his real experiences. He thought ATS might be the place where he could tell his true story and field questions. But one thing we learn about ATS is that you will be sandblasted to the bone if you do stand up. Hey, if it sells sleeper a few books, I'm all for it. I love his work.

Can we please remember that it is Hank McCoy who is making sleeper into this huge bookselling megalith? Let's have a hand for him. I expect he'll have an ET encounter himself, if he digs deep enough into sleeper's past. Ha ha. Just kidding ofcourse.

I knew sleeper's real name months ago, having simply U2U'd him and talked about his thread and he trusted me with his name, email and we corresponded a bit. I know others have done so also and I am sure they have received from sleeper the same considered, thoughtful words as I have. I welcome anybody to share their similar comments.


In the end, however, I believe he is really who he says he is because I threw some chicken bones into a dish. No really, it works. But beyond all that, I am wondering when Hank's book is coming out?

"How I Made sleeper into a World Famous Bajillionaire but Magneto Got Away"


...actually I don't think sleeper will ever get rich because he himself says ET messes with him. Probably he'll have to disappear or he'll get whacked. JUST KIDDING SLEEPER!


[edit on 1-2-2007 by smallpeeps]

I think John Lear and sleeper may have had some strange experiences, but I think they capitalize abd expand on those stories. Kind of like, if I saw some strange craft in the sky...I tell the story like...I saw these UFO's in the sky, and then I was taken up, and this alien Milton took me to Uranus, and then I was kidnapped by the government and worked on alien crafts, etc.

Yet all I really saw was some strange craft in the sky.

Human minds are so fanciful

I saw a Flying Saucer in the sky - - clear day - - a few whispy high clouds.

End of story. No OH Wow's! No religious experience.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman

Lou has done an impressive job in my mind, of creating a catch-22 type story.

I take the situation at face value. He's written a couple of books, paid to have them published, and discovered that it is incredibly difficult to make a buck in the book publishing business. That's not a knock on him, his story, or his writing ability but simply a fact of the industry.

He didn't get picked up by a major publishing house, so he decides that with his next story he will bypass publishing and hopes to go straight to the big screen. He writes a screenplay and maybe sends that out and/or has an agent that tries to shop it. He also wants to post his story on the internet. Rather than re-writing it as a normal blog, he just posts the screen play "as is". If the blog and post create interest (which it obviously has) he can use that as "proof" for a potential production company that it could be a money maker.

By putting his story on line, he also accomplishes a couple of other things. It may get noticed by someone in the book or movie business and gets picked up. Additionally, should someone try to release a similar story, he could sue and claim copyright infringement.

bururururur- it's starting to get chillier in here than when that poster mentioned Coulter!

Alright, alright, enough with the Ann Coulter cracks!

It would be nice if sleeper could throw in a few technical details or other kinds of information I couldn't make up out of my own head all by myself. That would go a long way toward moving his story out of the "mildly amusing tall tale" category and into a category with a little more weight to it.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
I think John Lear and sleeper may have had some strange experiences, but I think they capitalize abd expand on those stories. Kind of like, if I saw some strange craft in the sky...I tell the story like...I saw these UFO's in the sky, and then I was taken up, and this alien Milton took me to Uranus, and then I was kidnapped by the government and worked on alien crafts, etc.

Yet all I really saw was some strange craft in the sky.

Human minds are so fanciful

I think John would call that "UFO disease".

Originally posted by GLDNGUN
He didn't get picked up by a major publishing house, so he decides that with his next story he will bypass publishing and hopes to go straight to the big screen. He writes a screenplay and maybe sends that out and/or has an agent that tries to shop it. He also wants to post his story on the internet. Rather than re-writing it as a normal blog, he just posts the screen play "as is". If the blog and post create interest (which it obviously has) he can use that as "proof" for a potential production company that it could be a money maker.

This is all true. When I was on speaking terms with Lou we discussed this via email and I even offered him my contacts for movie agents. One prospect even offered to present the material to Lucas Film LTD but that fell through unfortuantely. Hell, he even offered me a part in the movie if it went through!

This all went sour when I realized the above possibilites and the horrors they really represent. Once Hank figured out the connection and writing style of Lou compared to Sleeper, the rest was history.

Edit: Viral marketing in my opinion is shady business. And fascist aliens are going to end up in the soul collectors one day-- not good homo sapiens. So either way-- movie part aside-- this is horrible.

Call me Judas, but I stand up for freedom and honor above all else. The silver combat boots don't come off.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by IamnomanasIamallman]

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
It would be nice if sleeper could throw in a few technical details or other kinds of information I couldn't make up out of my own head all by myself. That would go a long way toward moving his story out of the "mildly amusing tall tale" category and into a category with a little more weight to it.

Evidently, you made the mistake that many others did when seeing the titles of "Sleeper's" threads.

If you are looking for hard details on technology, proveable facts, and things that don't relate to "ET's" religious philosophy, you are probably going to be disappointed. All of that will continue to be just out of reach just like the space watch that disolved off his wrist when he got off the spaceship. It's kind of like chasing the "golden pot" at the end of the rainbow, which is why some people want MORE, MORE, MORE! It's a very effective writing tool that leaves the reader craving for more.

He can provide great detail on ancient history and distant future that can't be proved true or false, but only vague information on the present or near future which could be. He can tell you that we'll have a one-world global government in 100 years. He can describe in great detail what type of living arrangements we'll have in the distant future, but he can't tell us anything of consequence that will happen today, tomorrow, or in the very near future.

I think channeled entities are catching on that false prophecies tend to cast doubts as to their infallibility so they are more intent on "playing it safe". Hey, how was Sylvia Browne or her "guide" supposed to know they were going to find that kid in St. Louis!?

On the other hand, if you want to know "ET's" religious philisophy (even if he doesn't call it that) you'll probably find a near endless supply of "information".

Now a cynical person might say the whole thing was nothing more than a "bait and switch" game.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman and edited by Tiloke


This is all true. When I was on speaking terms with XXXXXX we discussed this via email and I even offered him my contacts for movie agents. One prospect even offered to present the material to Lucas Film LTD but that fell through unfortuantely. Hell, he even offered me a part in the movie if it went through!

This all went sour when I realized the above possibilites and the horrors they really represent. Once Hank figured out the connection and writing style of XXXXXXX compared to Sleeper, the rest was history.

Edit: Viral marketing in my opinion is shady business. And fascist aliens are going to end up in the soul collectors one day-- not good homo sapiens. So either way-- movie part aside-- this is horrible.

Call me Judas, but I stand up for freedom and honor above all else. The silver combat boots don't come off.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by IamnomanasIamallman]

Since when is it ok to ignore the T&C, Sleeper himself, and the owner of this site? Did you miss the first few pages when they specifically said NOT to release his name, in any way?

By the way, Im still here.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by Tiloke]