China, it's military capabilities, and chinese nationalists

Originally posted by pilotshinjiikaru
But it doesnt matter...oh and by the way people in this forum in reality dont care about your posts boasting of chinese military prowness. Its quite simple why would you do it on a english speaking forum? why not a chinese forum?

Where are my boasts?. Random accusations again....

You have been here for 7 days and already seem to be a expert in how it runs. You have only posted a handful of times (All rants against china) and have made more false accusations then posts.

I do it in a english speaking forum because people like to be informed, I also post on the biggest chinese military forums aswell as more english language forums. Because you argued with some guys on youtube, you are now a expert on these matters about the west

Why would people post Jihad videos of IED attacks from Iraq on youtube? And then write "God bless Allah and the mujahadeen".

Whos being paranoid?

A poster posts a thread about chinese weaponary and its anti-american?. You somehow even managed to assiocate videos of jihad on youtube to the tibetian american and made it seem anti-american. Now i ask, who is being paranoid when the only thing i posted that was anti-american was commenting on their massive military budget

And I'm sure you can flame me there somemore and then right how China is peaceful and then boast about some new aircraft carrier their going to build.

WHAT AIRCRAFT CARRIER????

How did you manage to associated a aircraft carrier with a new thread you were making about the chinese mindset?.


Writing about the chinese mindset when you have spent the majority of your life in America is asking saddam what it means to be a american when he just spent some time in a American run prison

Originally posted by semperfoo
Interesting. What province are you in?

I was in Hong Kong SAR three days ago, Currently in Fuqing,Fujian now and will be going to Fuzhou tomorrow

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by semperfoo
Interesting. What province are you in?

I was in Hong Kong SAR three days ago, Currently in Fuqing,Fujian now and will be going to Fuzhou tomorrow

Hong kong is nice How the hell do you deal with the driving there? Its as if its a big game of bumper cars.

Why would i be driving around, I would be crazy not to go shopping

Taiwan is falling apart, China doesnt need to invade anyone. They can loan them money, or just simply buy Taiwan.

Two major banks have failed, people are standing in lines to withdraw money from their accounts, the panic is spreading to other banks...I just returned from there. A friend of mine works at the bank of Taiwan, and is worried about Taiwans future.
I really was not impressed, the traffic is a nightmare, no parking on any street, and business people think they must be bowed down too. No thanks. At least China allows competition, Taiwan simple allows monopolies of its energy grid...even the CPC in PRC lets competition exist, not so in taiwan.

People there really think China will invade them, due to being terrified by their own media. it was almost pitifull.


China on the other hand was quite a beautifull experience. Very friendly people, beautifull scenery and culture. China is building and construction massive works at every level...they really are moving to take the lead in the 21st Century.

Bully for them.

Any country w/o nationalists is 'impotent' IMO..

Really..
China doesn't need to have a US-centric policy with respect to all its military capabilities. Indeed it DOESN'T..
And yes China does not have any conventional offensive strategic reach as of today..Neither does most of the remaining world btw..
Besides the carrier capable countries today, I doubt anyone has the ability to project power more thatn 1000 miles from its coasts(expect Russia with its long range supersonic bombers?).
But does that really matter? Who wants the capability to launch conventional strikes against CONUS? Esp with all those nukes stuffed there.
China should be more concerned about expanding influence in its own region rather than looking for strategic conventional reach. It should be more bothered with developing relations with Africa,Central Asia, South America.
All regions where the US popularity is waning.
See how China tries to contain India through its string of pearls strategy?
Pakistan,Bangladesh,Burma, Nepal?, Sri Lanka?
India is countering with rebuilding military ties with Nepal,Burma, Thailand, Singapore etc..
My point is that everything isn't USA centric.
And infact somewhere deep down IMO China wants a powerful India, Russia and EU(not powerful enough to upstage China itself), but enough to multipolarise the globe. The US will not troubled by someone trying to directly get at them. A Multipolar world with overlapping regions of influence is what can undermine one sole nation's ability to exercise unabated strategy at these overlaps. If that is the case then we will not have anymore
'Iraqi Excursions'.

Anyways all this aside; Nationalism is what drives any country; a lack of it signifies the inability to think big and think great things..

Another point: Isn't 'Shinjikaro' a Japanese name? If so then I would be surprised that a chinese would be using it.. Hope it signifies reconciliation in Japan-China ties!

I am no more qualified to speak than you are and vice versa guys because you posted so many times on the internet doesnt neccessarily make what you post either true or valid. I would take Janes over your internet sources anyday. And obviously anyone reading this post would see 1. your motivations 2. your paranoia 3. your biased views. I have never said anything stereotypical, I never said I was insulting the Chinese people or its military. And even though I repeated those things over and over like the people I mentioned you flip out and go beserk. Because gosh I mean there cant be anything wrong with China. And gosh growing up there makes my point invalid right? It doesnt matter.

And by the way on the Taiwan part, I dont believe you about your family or whatever because out of the hundred of so people of "Taiwanese" descent and from Taiwan that I met through family friends, church, life, and school I have never met one except for the mentioned elderly who look at China in a positive light much less who to subvert to communist rule. Theres not even a single doubt in my mind of that. And just like you can be paranoid and claim that I must be lying and so fourth just because you say you have family in Taiwan doesnt make your statements anymore valid.

And if you arent the kind of person I was describing well you flat out proved yourself wrong as in your previous posts your motivations come out along with your biased views. You never even fully understood what I was writing and you began quoting and attacking. If you would have read the entire thing you would have seen what I was trying to say. And realistically arguing over the internet is the most trivial and pittiful thing in the world. So I'm just gonna leave it at that, but like I said I am awefully happy about how your displayed yourself in your previous posts. =)

Hey semperfoo how bout THEM GATORS!!! I'm at UF. I use to live in Boca

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Any country w/o nationalists is 'impotent' IMO..

Really..
China doesn't need to have a US-centric policy with respect to all its military capabilities. Indeed it DOESN'T..
And yes China does not have any conventional offensive strategic reach as of today..Neither does most of the remaining world btw..

Besides the carrier capable countries today, I doubt anyone has the ability to project power more thatn 1000 miles from its coasts(expect Russia with its long range supersonic bombers?).
But does that really matter? Who wants the capability to launch conventional strikes against CONUS? Esp with all those nukes stuffed there.
China should be more concerned about expanding influence in its own region rather than looking for strategic conventional reach. It should be more bothered with developing relations with Africa,Central Asia, South America.
All regions where the US popularity is waning.
See how China tries to contain India through its string of pearls strategy?
Pakistan,Bangladesh,Burma, Nepal?, Sri Lanka?
India is countering with rebuilding military ties with Nepal,Burma, Thailand, Singapore etc..
My point is that everything isn't USA centric.
And infact somewhere deep down IMO China wants a powerful India, Russia and EU(not powerful enough to upstage China itself), but enough to multipolarise the globe. The US will not troubled by someone trying to directly get at them. A Multipolar world with overlapping regions of influence is what can undermine one sole nation's ability to exercise unabated strategy at these overlaps. If that is the case then we will not have anymore
'Iraqi Excursions'.

Anyways all this aside; Nationalism is what drives any country; a lack of it signifies the inability to think big and think great things..

Another point: Isn't 'Shinjikaro' a Japanese name? If so then I would be surprised that a chinese would be using it.. Hope it signifies reconciliation in Japan-China ties!

Well my username is a name that I have used for 6 years. Its actually suppose to be Shinji Ikari not Ikaru. And your assessment of its foreign policy and strategic position is completely right but what I was trying to say was that often nationalists use any achievement as a way to say IN YOUR FACE USA. Because as I have previously written we are viewed as their only strategic threat and competitor. So while small achievements in their military are great those people should not confuse that with China being on a strategic equal footing as I would be "#tin bricks" if some foreign country had bases strategic ringing my coastline. And like I said nationalism in China has been cultivated by the government as a method of instilling loyalty and to prevent college student from ever asking for democracy like Tinananmen Square ever again. And Chinese person can tell you the difference in school education before and after Tinananmen Square. Its just like George Bush using patriotism to prevent anyone from questioning his policies, think Iraq. Before Tinananmen Square everything from the West, western ideas were embraced by my parents generation without question, the west was cool, and it was always right. That lead to Tinananmen Square, and after that the Chinese government made it a special emphasis on the news and through education to make sure the people remember the humiliation China has endured. Like I said the Japan protest thing 2 years ago shows China is playing with fire and it can very easily burn itself.

pilot...your self-disdain is transparent. you remind me of african american cops who hate on other african americans in order to deny themselves who they are while sucking up to white america. When americans look at you do you think they see an american? no..they still see a chinaman. its YOUR views that are evidence of brainwashing...im chinese canadian here in vancouver bc....we're the largest minority by far....so large we're barely even a minority in most of bc...our culture here is strong, our influence is strong, and we dont apologize for being Chinese like you.

Originally posted by pilotshinjiikaru
Before Tinananmen Square everything from the West, western ideas were embraced by my parents generation without question, the west was cool, and it was always right.

Arent you making a claim there?.

Your parents generation is MY parents generation and being in remote tibet or inner china does not mean your parents thoughts spread to other parts of china. You might be influenced by people who fled china or what not and have this weird logic that everything they say happened, because you my friend are completely out of touch.

For my parents, the west was not cool, taiwan was cool.
For my parents friends japan was cool and moved there
For my generation Korea is cool and everything we watch is korean

I gurantee i have met more varied and different chinese currently than you would meet in your entire lifetime in your US town or city.

Originally posted by pilotshinjiikaru
And even though I repeated those things over and over like the people I mentioned you flip out and go beserk.

Flip out and go beserk?

You mean address all you points and actually replying?, or did you expect your points to go unchallenged and some other person then repeats down the track?. The only one which went beserk was you on his self-admitted rant about how you are pissed that the American name is being tarnished by chinese nationalist

And by the way on the Taiwan part, I dont believe you about your family or whatever

What proof do you want then?, I've been down this road before, people doubting me being in Australia, people doubting where i live in Australia. Even people doubting i was even Chinese. You even telling to go to china instead of watching Xinhua even though i'm in china at this present state.Not this time, you provide your proof first because I'm sick and tired of trying to prove to eight day members who i am over and over again.

The only Taiwanese you have met are overseas chinese yet you make all these claims about majority and such

You claim to have met 100 Taiwanese in presumerly a overseas hate china secession. That actually doesn't make sense since most Taiwanese nationalist look at the KMT in a bad light which has nothing to do with nationalism. The elderly look at the japanese in a good light and most people who where born in china look at china in a good light.

Repeated again since you accuse me of being paraniod

Whos being paranoid?

A poster posts a thread about chinese weaponary and its anti-american?. You somehow even managed to assiocate videos of jihad on youtube to the tibetian american and made it seem anti-american. Now i ask, who is being paranoid when the only thing i posted that was anti-american was commenting on their massive military budget.

First you make absurd claims

- The lost of Taiwan would cripple America, Japan and South Korea
- Taiwans majority dont even see themselves as Chinese (from your experience from people in America)
- Dong Fong missiles that can finally hit all of the continental US(which it only has few of)
- I was merely saying that the Chinese government propaganda line of Taiwan wants to unite with China is nearly completely a lie. (where there is no propaganda line)
- I was taught how the west (whites) had pillaged and raped China and then the Japanese
- Chinese people as a race are racially superior to whites and that one day when our nation is strong economically we will strike back at the West as it is our rightful place as the people of longest living civilization on earth to rule the world and replace the US as the world's ruler(Lol).
- Accusations about Chinese threads from your own personal experience even though i got over 5000 hits on a single thread


And your american supremacy statements

- Thats the simple fact of the matter, when my family decided to immigrate my father explained what it meant to be American. To be a part of the most powerful country in the world, that the life of an American is worth more then the life of a person from any other country due to the fact that the US will due whatever it has to to protect its citizens. Look at how many they killed 9-11 and look at how many died in Afghanistan and Iraq.
- Americas gt like military

And if you arent the kind of person I was describing well you flat out proved yourself wrong as in your previous posts your motivations come out along with your biased views.

The blame game?

You claim to be modest or netural in your initial post, yet all i heard was "I hate when people post pictures because Americas the best because they kill a lot of people in afganistan and iraq". You are paraniod since every picture involving chinese weaponary has to be about America even though there are not comments about them. Why dont you realise that people post to inform people not to gloat. Why dont you feel the same way about American, Russian, British, French posters, or is it just your harted of china speaking?. Do all of them have a hate on for America, why wasn't it directed at all of them since there are many threads involving other countries militaries that challenge America?


And your american supremacy statements

- Thats the simple fact of the matter, when my family decided to immigrate my father explained what it meant to be American. To be a part of the most powerful country in the world, that the life of an American is worth more then the life of a person from any other country due to the fact that the US will due whatever it has to to protect its citizens. Look at how many they killed 9-11 and look at how many died in Afghanistan and Iraq.
- Americas gt like military.

Well, the question is that if war broke out what would happen. Sure China has a big conventional army, but it is really like a 24 inch dick. Sure it's impressive but how are they going to use it. So if I were an American military commander, how would I respond to a war with China? Obviously it depends on the objectives, but lets just say it is defend Taiwan.

1. The US navy would be able to immediately blockade China's main ports. Obviously oil would be the most important commodity to stop. Sorties would be launched to take out pipelines into Western China, and tankers going through the Straights of Malacca would be tagged and ensured they don't go to China. Place sea mines outside of China's ports, and send Seal teams to sabatogue ocean ports

2. Stealth bombers and cruise missles (since presumably several battle fleets would be deployed nearby if the geopolitical situation made open war immenate) would hit China's air defense systems, radar systems, airports, and suspected rocket launching facilities. Apart from the force projected from aircraft carriers, there would be sorties flying from Aghanistan, Uzbekistan, Taiwan, Guam, etc.). If Japan or S.Korea are in the war, obviously more choices.

3. Would begin bombing raids dropping EMP bombs in the major cities and electrical conducting areas.

That would of course be a first wave. Depending on whether China began launching rockets into major Tiawanese cities determines whether to go ahead with a more sustained bombing campaign against targets of higher value.

4. Were a rocket launched across the Pacific, the US would likely knock it out. If for whatever reason though the rocket did land in LA or Seattle, etc.; the response would be determined by whether it were radiologial or conventional. If it were radiological, then of course the US would have no choice but to respond radiologically. God help us all, or more percisely God help East Asia. Were it conventional, then hit Three Gorges Dam with conventional weaponry. Needless to say the loss of life would be more than proportonite in the US's favor.

5. Meanwhile, of course, the US would cancel all Treasury notes held by the PRC. In addition to plunging the Chinese banking and currency system into absolute chaos, the US dollar would jump allowing it to gain access to the materials needed for war between industrial nations (oil being the big one of course)

6. At this point assume a defensive position. Obviously continue pressure through bombing raids, but allow China to sue for peace when it becomes obvious that they are unable to conduct a war while their ports are mined and blockaded, they are unable to get oil, and their electrical infastructure is no longer existent.

The last thing you want to do is land troops (except obviously selected examples of special forces).

What would China's options be? Nothing I can really see, what would you say?

1.) They could launch rockets into Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan. Though they would undoubtedly do much damage, the civilian deaths would undoubtedly turn world opinion against them. Moreover, it would serve to bring Japan and S. Korea into the war.

2.) Practice asymetric warfare. Perhaps the best option, though it won't be like is in Iraq now, since the US would not be an occupying power persay. Rather they would try using submarines to hit US carriers and the like. The problem is that without oil or its foreign imports, China would not be able to sustain an asymetrical campaign for the years required to have an effect

3.) Shoot down sattelites? I am still not convinced they have the technical capacity. One thing to hit an old weather sattelite, another to hit an unidentified US military sattellite which may very well have steering capabilities to allow it to modify its orbit.

Continued below

[edit on 19-1-2007 by XBadger]

[edit on 19-1-2007 by XBadger]

[edit on 19-1-2007 by XBadger]

4.) Escalate? OK launch rockets at US (nuclear or otherwise), see above. China could seriously not be suicidal enough to launch radiological, chemical, or biological weaponry against the US. The country would simply be turned to glass.

Attack Japan, OK, but not really sure what it would accomplish. Invade S. Korea. Possibly they could inflict massive amounts of casulties to US forces stationed there to put political pressure on teh US to withdraw, but China would be welcomed to the difficulties of occupying hostile territory (see US in Iraq). Moreover, S. Korea is one of the world's most advanced armies. So have at it. Moreover, would likely sour world opinion to China.

It would also be very difficult to launch a major offensive without the oil and war materials neccessary. Moroever, it would be difficult to begin moving troops through N. Korea under pressure from tactical US bombers and helicoptors.

Suffice to say though that neither side wants a war, and likely neither will allow it to happen. Besides, why would China launch into a suicidal war to get an island whose inhabitants don't want to be a part of an oppressive mainland China.



[edit on 19-1-2007 by XBadger]

Originally posted by chinawhite
I am an Australian of Chinese decent, I speak Seven Languages including Four Chinese dialects, I read most local and international newspapers and i have family in all corners of the globe. Your use of calling Chinese Brainwashed is your form of denigrating .Your notion of a stereotypical Chinese is completely ridiculous and this nationalism you seem to indicate Chinese posters display is completely baseless, mind you, your making these accusations without evidence.

This really cracked me up. Chinawhite seems to like to make up alot of things about himslef ot make him seem far more versed in the ways of the world than he really is. LOL speaking 7 languages, yeah right.

For the record he is a kid living in country Australia, nothing more. I hvae spent more time in CHina than he has lol.

BTW. I live here, but am ot CHinese. I have seen things in CHina from Beijing to Guanzhou - what has become apparent is that CHinawhite knows very little about CHina. He gets his information from teh web from CHinese nationalists, where he seems to almost completely copy posts from Nationalist CHinese and passes them off here as his own. He also makes many things up.

Don't worry about what he says, it for the most part has no weight

Quote from China White:

Western values?

You mean drugs, obesity, pornography, gangs and serial killers?, How about consumer culture which leaves many Americans in debt?. The average chinese has more values than the average western BECAUSE of their government.

____________________

Sorry this is going off topic from the forum topic, but this racist post made me mad.



Obesity?? A much larger percentage of the Chinese population is chemically addicted to tobbacco than in America. Are you trying to say that it is better to die of lung cancer and emphesima than a heart attack? Why is your government falling down on the job there?

Drugs?? See above.

serial killers?? OK there are no serial killers in China. How about Yang Xinhai who killed 65 (!) people between 1999-2003? Hu Wanlin who killed 150 (!) men, women, and children? Gong Runbo who killed six children in 2006? Or perhaps less spectacularly, Zhou Wen who killed 6 women in 2003? These are just a few examples in the past five years. All of this, of course, doesn't count the person who I has the dubious honor of being responsible for more human deaths than anyone else in the history of the world: Chairman Mao.

I guess of course, you can just be stupid and make baseless claims.


[edit on 19-1-2007 by XBadger]

Rogue1,

I'm glad you held your tongue with these post. Getting three warnings in a row last time might have been a record or something. This might even be you on your other accounts pretending to be chinese like you tried to do last time

Originally posted by rogue1
LOL speaking 7 languages, yeah right.

Just because your to thick headed to learn another language besides english doesn't make other people as thick headed

1) Hakka - Obviously since i was born there
2) Ming Nan hua (hokkien) - Same as above
3) Putien hua - Seeing as how half my family are all Fuqing ren I would have learnt its language
4) Cantonese - My whole mothers side lives in hong kong and i lived there for a while before travelling to Australia

5)Pu tong hua - Obvious
6)English - Obvious
7) Indonesian - Complosary second language taught in Australia

For the record he is a kid living in country Australia, nothing more. I hvae spent more time in CHina than he has lol.

Even though you have completely no proof?. Do you remember that other thread where i even quoted myself as saying i lived in the melbourne region and you got three warnings in?.

You spent more time in china?. Oh really, you mean that working visa you have making clothes for that taiwanese sweatshop?. Or that fantasy you had where a factory of 13,000 turned into 80,000 the next day?. How about your claim that he made anywhere between 25%-40% of the worlds shoes

He gets his information from teh web from CHinese nationalists, where he seems to almost completely copy posts from Nationalist CHinese and passes them off here as his own.

Why dont you do a google search like you always do and make FALSE accusations. So where have i copied post from.


I post my Visa again if you like?

EDIT: Double post

[edit on 20-1-2007 by chinawhite]

1. The US navy would be able to immediately blockade China's main ports. Seal teams to sabatogue ocean ports


Now tell me the US force deployments in the asian region as opposed to chinas deployments?. The US seventh fleet is able to blockade chinas coast by itself?. You no that chinas fleet is currently deployed as a brown~green force that consists of a lot of missiles, submarines and lots of aircraft along side chinas coast. It will not be ship against ship, it will be the whole chinese military againest the American seventh fleet intially and then more American carriers which i think are extremely vunerable to submarines and ASM.

China also lanuchs bombing missions againest guam, Okinawa or any close American airbase with either Attack planes, cruise missiles or ballistic missile attacks. Chinas own production of refined oil is adequate without consumer use and would be stopped immediately so the military can use it, Russia will continue their own supply of oil and chinas oil pipeline in the west will be protected by SAM as well as chinas air force in the west

Seal teams sabotage chinas naval ports?. Maybe in a Tom Clancy novel. What about chinese SOF in civillian dress attack american ports?

2.Stealth bombers and cruise missles

20 stealth bombers and cruise missiles.

Cruise missiles would be the biggest problem againest fixed targets but as other conflicts have demonstrated they are not completely effective and as demonstrated by the serbians they are easily tricked. The failure rate of the tomahawk in the gulf war was massive but that could be excused because of its inmaturity. As some people might know, china has already begun deploying and have already many operational units with mobile communications or C4I systems because they know fixed targets are vunerable, they have also being developing many divices like laser deflectors to defeat LGB and have been developing many different ECM divices to defeat cruise missiles as well

I also believe that Stealth bombers are vunerable to a intergrated air defense network and if used as they did in iraq would be shoot down by chinas. I will go into more depth later on with this one when i find some of my past posts

3. Would begin bombing raids dropping EMP bombs in the major cities and electrical conducting areas.

EMP, interesting but do you have any idea about its deployment


4. Were a rocket launched across the Pacific, the US would likely knock it out.

How so?.

Has the US ever knocked out a ICBM?. Has the US ever claimed it can knock out a ICBM, how about 60 rockets?.

5. Meanwhile, of course, the US would cancel all Treasury notes held by the PRC.

Cancel Treasury notes held by china?. Interesting since they would be sold off before congress could pass anything. And the US dollar would jump?, You mean dive don't you?. Going into a major war would have major consequences on everything. Who in their right mind would accept green backs if the stock markets were falling, they would most probaly convert their money to the Yen or Euro.

Being buying Russian equipment on mass and order immediate full production of all types of arms in many of chinas arms workshops which are either on ground protected by SAM cover or underground in one of the many MAO era tunnel and underground networks that was constructed over the years



You seem to think that the USAF could somehow move around un-noticed and unable to be targeted. The USAF has never been tested in conflict with a real enemy, the only enemy they managed to defeat was Iraq and could not manage to defeat Serbia with that type of blockade and numerous NATO allies even after the use of LGB which would be most likey denied by chinese SAMS and counters emplace like light emitters or even the Tor-M1 system or its chinese counterpart. how many Tomahawks does America have, Try to compare land mass and the amounts of targets via serbia and china and see how many you need to even get china to the area serbia is in. Factor in the training chinese pilots get and Iraqi pilots and the fact that they have comparable equipment at their disposal

The difference between Iraq or Serbia is the lack of American allies and the fact that they have a lot less room to deploy anything but naval forces

Here is the possible detetion methods the chinese airforce can use to detect a stealth fighter.

The YLC-20 passive system which is much like the VERA-E system which the US was very worried about any tried to buy out the company so the technology wouldn't fall to potentinal enemies. This system works on the principle of TDOA, im not going to say im absolutly saw how this technology works, but a former radar operator informed us its based on the movement of aircraft from each reciever. But its effectiness in detecting stealth aircraft is hardly disputed

Here is the chinese sales brochure



The other system that can be used is a long-wave radar which is much harder to scatter than millimetric radar currently being used. These older type radars were discontinued because the newer radars provided more accuracy than the older long-wave types. But these can be used to find the general location of stealth aircraft so they could be intercepted or alert fighters in the air of a potentional enemy. Then there are new generation radars which utilse different designs compared to the average Monostatic radar which has the reciever and transmitter in roughly the same location, these new radars seperated their transmitter and reciever at longer differences, Bistatic radar and the Passive radars which is are called multistatic. I cant really explain the indepth details but these articles give a breif description. These can be used and will be used to detect stealth aircraft

Multistatic
Bistatic



Here is a possible senario, this is assuming that the US has a chance to deploy the F-22 at any bases close to the chinese border. There has been talk of the F-22 coming all the way from alaska and Guam but i assume this is some ridiculuos asumption that the US is capable of anything. But anyhow, the PLAAF will always have superior number of fighters compared to the amount of F-22s deployed.

*Currently the PLAAF has

50-100 J-10s
300 J-8IIs (F/H variants are in the minority)
76 Su-30
76 Su-27SK/UBK
24 Su-30MK2
90-100+ J-11/A/B

The Current F-22 force is about a few SQN of about 50 planes, these figures might be +/- but i dont keep tags on the USAF as oftend as i do with the PLAAF. But lets assume all those F-22s can be stationed on Kadena Air Base on okinawa to replace the F-15s currently stationed there. The F-22 will still be out-number by a fair ratio.


Now here is a situation, 20 F-22s managed to get up and are engaged by about 100 or so chinese fighters from a number of airbases near taiwan. The numbers are about 25 J-10s, 25 Su-27/30, 10 J-8II and about 40 J-7E/G and a random amount of monkey fighters which are basically J-5/6/7 drones to confuse the F-22 fighters while assuming that the US airforce is here to gain air superioty as you claimed. The F-22 will be closing in to their NEZ of the Aim-120C which is about 2/3 or 1/3 of the Maximum range of their missiles. When they fire they will probaly assume the most dangerious posture which is the closet fighter objects in the sky which are the drones in the air, they will need to wait and paint the fighters until the active seekers on the Aim-120 activate at 40km asumming that they dont have a NEZ as well. But this time, the 20 F-22s will be within 40km of the 100 or so fighters which had no been engaged travelling at about 800-900km a hour until they are 20 km towards the F-22s and then use after-burner to get there quicker.

900km/h is about 15 kilometers a mintue
1500km/h is about 25 kilmeters a minute.

So that is roughly 2 minutes towards engagment at visual range. The F-22 can then be engaged by a number of methods, the F-22 can be painted about 10-20km by conventional fighters frontally which means they will be less from the side or even the back if the fighters do a arial pincer movement. Short range heat-seekers while dogfighting againest a ratio of 1:5. They could even be located eariler by the OLS-27 on the Su-27/30 and will be in visual sight so a cannon kill could even be possible.


This senario will only be possible if the PLAAF at datalinked to a AWACS aircraft which is getting feeds from ground based radar which i think the PLAAF has already developed somwhat.

3 KJ-2000 round tops
? (5-10) KJ-200 balance beams


[edit on 20-1-2007 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by XBadger
but this racist post made me mad.

Racist? Which race did i offend?

Obesity?Are you trying to say that it is better to die of lung cancer and emphesima than a heart attack?

Its better to live your life with a smoke in one hand than to be obese and find it hard to walk. How much smokers actually die of cancer?. Smoking is bad but being obese is much worse. And if you check history it was the west which introduced tobacco smoking to the chinese

serial killers??

I was actually trying to say psychopaths but couldn't think of the word so i used a example of a psychopath

OK, I just read the rules for the forum (new here) and mods don't want a ?? vs ?? hypothetical war scenerios. So I will keep this brief.

1. The blockade would be done away from the coast of China. Straights of Malacca. China has no blue water fleet to contest such an action. Mines would be laid in Chinese ports by submarines.

Obviously force deployments favor China now, but it only stands to reason that if the diplomatic situation became so tense that an open shooting war was declared. Many more carrier groups and fleets would be in the area. In addition, the British and Japanese fleets would most likely give logistical support.

Do you honestly think that China would be able to bomb Guam or Okinawa? LOL. Really, that is funny. I assume that you mean launch rockets. Well, an attack on Okinawa (even if just against an American base) would make Japan more than just a logistical supporter.

EDIT -- Looking at your post again. Absolutely hilarious. You are going to cut off civilian use of gasoline in time of war. Do you have any clue what it would mean to cut off civilian use of oil? You can't just move your hands like you said. No heat, no electricity, no ambulance, no repairmen. ROFL

2. Well I obviously didn't mean just with Stealth bombers and cruise missles. They would obviously be the first wave.

Of course I don't mean seals taking down a port by themselves, rather giving real time intel to command and electronically painting targets. The way that modern war is done, at least in a military with technical competence.

3. So much of EMP technology is classified, so we don't know the exact delivery method. Probably cruise missles or bombers. We do know that the US military ran several tests of "bombs" in 2002. Reports of one being dropped in 2003 against Iraq, but unsubstantiated. It is also widely regarded that the US is at the forefront of the world in it.

4. [EDIT -- said more than I should have]

My main point here is that China couldn't possibly entertain any idea of using radiological weaponry against the continental USA without it first being used agains them. I cannot possibly imagine that China would be the one to escalate to a nuclear conflict. America simply has too many ICBMs. That would be . . . not smart.

5. That is the entire thing about a war between industrial powers in a world where technology, commerce, and trade is so connected. Throw the models out of the window. There is simply no way of knowing what will happen. If you act like you know it will rise or fall you just aren't being honest. I've talked with a guy who works at the mercantile exchange in Chicago about exactly this quesiton. Says there is no answer what would happen.

BTW, you think they would convert to the yen? After you said that China would begin bombing Okinawa. Yea, that is the bet I would make if I had millions of dollars to protect. I guess the Euro might be safe, but since two of its biggest trading partners now are at war not a sure bet. Moreover, you've got a likely hood that at least one member of the EU (who doesn't use the Euro, but still tied in) would be involved. If the US were attacked by missles, then NATO alliances would come into effect potentially dragging more into the mess. Gold would probably be the safe bet. Really, though, I think we can agree the effects would be unprecedented, maybe the money would go into the American defense stocks. No way to tell, but we do know that China would loose their largest source of foreign money and the thing that guarantees the strength of their currency.

But the gist of my post is that America would simply blockade trade to China and mine its ports. That would be check mate. I am not sure how much oil China has in it, but certainly not self-sufficient. What six months? One year? I really don't know. What would be China's end game?

[edit on 20-1-2007 by XBadger]

[edit on 20-1-2007 by XBadger]

[edit on 20-1-2007 by XBadger]