China, it's military capabilities, and chinese nationalists

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posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 03:07 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
Precisely the big multinationals are outting teh majority of money into the CHinese economy, take them away and Chinas economy would implode.


You mean the $30billion< the Big multi-nationals invest?. The Government of China invests more than 1 TRILLION dollars EACH year. Hong Kong, and Taiwan invest MORE than the big multi-nationals in the Chinese economy. If China closed its doors to the Multi-nationals they themselves would go bankrupt since their goods, investments and their manufacturing places would all but have gone. Backing, stock market would collapse whilst the resource sector would go into a massive recession, japan will enter back into recession and in turn cause a global depression

This goes back to your original comment about " the foreigners are the real source of the money" which I said only includes big multi-national companies and not small time investors since the average Chinese business man has more many that most investors


Nope no joint ownership here and none in any of the other Taiwanese factories I've been to.


You must be working in a very rural area of china where regulations are lax or in a SEZ. The sweatshop you work in is probaly a sub-contractor for a bigger company with a brand name. The other explanation would be he appiled for a PRC citizen status and was allowed to establish a factory by himself



What would you suggest I erad mainland CHinese books and websites, they are heavily censored. Seriously, you believe what they say?


Why would I have ANY reason not believe what they say?. They have photos, evidence, the majority of villagers talking about what happened. Using personal accounts from DIRECT relations to picture in what actually happened.

You must have realized that MOST people did not like the cultural revolution and the people who came out of them had hatred, not for Mao but the gang of four. People like Deng Xiao Ping was a VICTIM of the cultural revolution and when him and other people who were prosecuted took power had no reason to lie about what had happened. Instead they TOLD and made available their HONEST stories about their experience. What things are published in the west are absolutely fantasy made by people who were prosecuted and there for had to make bigger stories to sell books


Mao never controlled it, nor did he try to because he did not know what was going on. When he did find out what was going on he ordered them to stop and they were stopped by the army. Maos aim was to bring about the "re-education of the chinese peasantry but his aim was turned into revenage against the landlord class who was universally hated by everyone under him. Although there has been books and events of extremes, they are always the extremes while other places held humiliation rallies for other landlords and other corrupt individuals


Why don't you find an instance where the US bombed the other side of the Yalu ?



Rhee Syngman and some elements of MacArthur supporters try to sabotage the talks. US planes "mistakenly" strafe Kaesong, convoys carrying the communist negotiating team, and armed raids across the cease-fire lines. American planes bomb Dadong in Manchuria .

Kimsoft.com


However, Truman and the other leaders disagreed, and MacArthur was ordered to be very cautious when approaching the Chinese border. Eventually, MacArthur disregarded these concerns, arguing that since the North Korean troops were being supplied by bases in China, those supply depots should be bombed. However, except on some rare occasions U.N. bombers remained out of Manchuria during the war.


MacAurthur simply ignored those orders and attacked Dadong which was a supply base or arms depot. Your trying to play the sympathetic American card, "they were in their right to bomb those bases"?. Please, dont try to stook that low and try to et our american members to save your disucssion


The US lost less aircraft to air combat than the Chinese. In fact it was the 2 Russian Air Regiments which scored the majority of the kills against the US.


Thats the biggest pile of crap you keep on telling. The Soviets lost MORE aircraft than the chinese airforce in the Korean war. They even admitted they lost 345 MiG-15s in the conflict

Here is a list organized by the Vertans of the Korean war, in part sponsored by the US government. Koreanwar.com . You might also like to check the list of UN aircraft loses as well

Fighter - MiG-15

VVS - 345 VVS

PLAAF - At least 83 PLAAF

KPAFAC - At least 1 KPAFAC


Of, where are you quoting these russians kills from?. You mean their claim about downing 600+ sabres as well?. Wont you one of the people who shouted loudest once when these russian claims where published. Why the change of heart so quickly, selective listening?.

How did the Americans know that there were Soviet pilots flying instead of Chinese flyin those MiGs since the US never was able to put edvidence that Soviet pilots were in the war until the Russian government released classifed korean war files in the 1990s. How to you say that the USAF knew they were chinese pilots instead of American.

The Reason the chinese airforce suffered such small losses is because they would be bouncing American bombers and sabres with cannon fire and then re-gain altitude until they kill them or ran out of fuel in the process, the Russians on the other hand where using their WW2 methods of digfighting with a fighter not meant to dog fight and got themselves killed and did not finsih their mission


If Manchuria wasn't asafe haven for teh PLAAF then the PLAAF would have been wiped out in MAnchuria.


And the reason they didn't wipe out the bridges in Korea or they didn't wipe out the supply lines or even the airbases on the Korean side of the Yalu is because?. Factor the fact that the B-29s and other bombers were forced into high-altitude bombing because of the MiG-15 presence, continual AA guns on a massive scale and the Manchurian airforce which was not commited to the battle as yet.

The Sabres would also have to travel extra distance which causes even less time to dog fight from the extremely short time they had to begin with without attacking over the border and avioding AA fire and more fighters. They orginally came in groups for a 20-1hour interval and swapped with other fighters in a wave type of continuence. The sabre did not have enough range to dog fight and continue the battle and your claims about a massacre are founded on absolutely nothing except for kill ratio with the sabre and MiG-15 even those the MiG-15 was designed to and assigned the mission of attacking bombers and not being a fighting escort




posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
You mean the $30billion< the Big multi-nationals invest?. The Government of China invests more than 1 TRILLION dollars EACH year. Hong Kong, and Taiwan invest MORE than the big multi-nationals in the Chinese economy.


Please provide some information to back up this statement, or is this just more made up bravado of yours.



Why would I have ANY reason not believe what they say?. They have photos, evidence, the majority of villagers talking about what happened. Using personal accounts from DIRECT relations to picture in what actually happened.


Well for the very bvious reason, any inforamtion that brigs Mao and the Communist party into disrepute is heavily censored. It makes me wonder about your claimed knowlege of China if you didn't know this fundamental fact.


People like Deng Xiao Ping was a VICTIM of the cultural revolution and when him and other people who were prosecuted took power had no reason to lie about what had happened. Instead they TOLD and made available their HONEST stories about their experience. What things are published in the west are absolutely fantasy made by people who were prosecuted and there for had to make bigger stories to sell books.


LOL before you were asying how all the people persecuted were deservedly so, now you say their are victims. Try and get your story straight.
Any stories which were "TOLD" were subject to approval of the CP, you can bet there are many more which were not allowed to be told. ONly when peple came to the West could they feel free to tell the real truth. The truth which you like to call fanatasy as it doesn't sit well with your blind faith.
I'm curious just how much someone like you would know about this. You like to give the impression that you live in CHina, yet you were raised in Australia, being Chinese heritage does not give you some inherant authority about China


I had to laugh before how you said you were fluent in 7 languages as well, biggest load of bull I've ever heard. What's your life story going to be tomorrow ? You were MAo's illegitimate son ?




Mao never controlled it, nor did he try to because he did not know what was going on. When he did find out what was going on he ordered them to stop and they were stopped by the army.


Wellwe can both agree that MAo was incompetant. He didn't seem to now what was going on for years.


[quorte]
MacAurthur simply ignored those orders and attacked Dadong which was a supply base or arms depot. Your trying to play the sympathetic American card, "they were in their right to bomb those bases"?. Please, dont try to stook that low and try to et our american members to save your disucssion

LOL, so you found the only instance of a small american raid, so what ? What is the pint you are trying to make. IMO the US should have bombed Manchuria extensively.



The US lost less aircraft to air combat than the Chinese. In fact it was the 2 Russian Air Regiments which scored the majority of the kills against the US.


Thats the biggest pile of crap you keep on telling. The Soviets lost MORE aircraft than the chinese airforce in the Korean war. They even admitted they lost 345 MiG-15s in the conflict


LOL, I sugegst you get your facts straight. The Soviets sent in their elite pilots, the PLAAF pilots were crap. Simple fact.

Here is a list organized by the Vertans of the Korean war, in part sponsored by the US government. Koreanwar.com . You might also like to check the list of UN aircraft loses as well

Fighter - MiG-15

VVS - 345 VVS

PLAAF - At least 83 PLAAF

KPAFAC - At least 1 KPAFAC



How did the Americans know that there were Soviet pilots flying instead of Chinese flyin those MiGs since the US never was able to put edvidence that Soviet pilots were in the war until the Russian government released classifed korean war files in the 1990s. How to you say that the USAF knew they were chinese pilots instead of American.


LOL, they knoew because they picked up radoi transmisison in RUssian from teh MIG's all the time. Not to mention sightings of blonde and red haired pilots in MIGs during combat, lol.


The Reason the chinese airforce suffered such small losses is because they would be bouncing American bombers and sabres with cannon fire and then re-gain altitude until they kill them or ran out of fuel in the process, the Russians on the other hand where using their WW2 methods of digfighting with a fighter not meant to dog fight and got themselves killed and did not finsih their mission


LOL, what a load of bollocks. The PLAAF attacked in mass, if they encountered a force of almost even strength they ran off. They knoew they would be blown out of the air in a dog fight. The American pilots were far superior and battle hardened.




Here you go some information


Overall, so far I have records of 3,041 aircraft lost in Korea, most of which now have a serial or BuAer number for the US ones and at least day/date/unit on the foreign ones (RN, RAAF, RAN, SAAF, ROKAF, etc.)

Of this number:

41 have no reason given
11 are listed as lost for unknown reasons
164 list a reason but no category
991 are non-combat losses (crashes in training, landing/takeoff from carriers, typhoons, accidents, etc.)
1,150 were lost due to AAA damage or blew up in midair
683 were combat losses (non AAA inflicted)

Of that 683 --

4 were midair collisions (3 with MiG-15s, 1 with a Po-2)
12 were claimed by the KPAFAC
14 were claimed by the PLAAF
15 were claimed by both the PLAAF and the VVS
227 were claimed by the VVS
407 were lost in strafing runs, bomb runs, accidents in combat, etc.


So the PLAAF only claimed 14 kills


PLease provide a link to your inforamtion about PLAAF losses, as it is very hard to find any information concerning this.



And the reason they didn't wipe out the bridges in Korea or they didn't wipe out the supply lines or even the airbases on the Korean side of the Yalu is because?. Factor the fact that the B-29s and other bombers were forced into high-altitude bombing because of the MiG-15 presence, continual AA guns on a massive scale and the Manchurian airforce which was not commited to the battle as yet.


No because bombing MAnchuria would have meant engagin Soviet forces runnig airbases their risking a much wider war. It wasn't fear of the CHinese, it was their Soviet backers.


The sabre did not have enough range to dog fight and continue the battle and your claims about a massacre are founded on absolutely nothing except for kill ratio with the sabre and MiG-15 even those the MiG-15 was designed to and assigned the mission of attacking bombers and not being a fighting escort


Yet Sabre pilots routinely disobeyed orders and flew over th Yalu to down PLAAF MIgs, what they termed easy meat. They had to falsify their records saying they downed them in KOrea. There was a good History Channel program interviewing the USAF SAbre pilots recounting their missions into Manchuria.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
Please provide some information to back up this statement, or is this just more made up bravado of yours.


Now your the one asking for proof. You seem to always ask but never provide, its funny looking at little children asking for things all the time. Why do you always doubt me, I have always presented proof even when you begged me to



USchina.org

Now look at this total of FDI in china. It clearly states that the MOST FDI comes from Hong Kong. Now their is another figure you should also take note of. Beginning 25 years ago (to 2004) there has been $400billion foreign dollars invested in china, divide this figure by 25 and you get $16 Billion dollars a year. Now that this figure, the Chinese government has invested 44.3% of the GDP into the economy. Chinas economy is more than 2.5 TRILLION dollars, it works out to more than ONE TRILLION dollars in 2006 ONLY. More than all foriegn investment or FDI has generated in china for 25 years.


Now what about this statement that china will "implode" without this FDI. Another lie on your part, seems to make absurd comments without any facts or should i say bravado?




You clearly aren't the head of business operations for the sweatshop you work in from the display of knowledge on the chinese economy



Well for the very bvious reason, any inforamtion that brigs Mao and the Communist party into disrepute is heavily censored.


Describe the term heavily censored?.

Your knowledge of chinese history is completely ridiculous, must be because you cant read chinese books and haven't read these "supposedly censored" books that aren't published. Its common knowledge what happened in the aftermath of the cultural revolution and who was responsible, these are even written in english books. The gang of four, Deng Xiao Ping, reforms etc are fundermental knowledge for anyone how has the slightly knowledge of the cultural revolution, its all about knowledge of the event, what lead to them and the evualtion or end result of what happened.

There are many books published about what happened in the cultural revolution in china which are not cherry picking or missing "important bits" through "censored" material. They give events, they give details and most importantly they attack the high leadership at that time which was the gang of four. There was a MASSIVE public trial which had nothing to do with the CCP because they were the one under trial. The culprits were charged and some arrested. What has been vigorously reported was a event in 1968 when Mao found out what was happening in the countryside and immediately put a stop to it. The CCP does not censor it simply because there is nothing to censor because these attacks weren't seen or were offered by the CCP but a foreign third party in the form of the gang of four.

You then state below that we both agree that Mao was incompetant which re-enforces my point that the Chinese government does not consider a threat to Mao or the CCP

Which goes back to your same point that the CCP would somehow censor this material even though none of this implicated them


before you were asying how all the people persecuted were deservedly so, now you say their are victims.


I actually asked you to describe the word innocent

I never did say all people were deservedly persecuted, I actually asked for a distinction between the so called victims "How would you describe innocent?, people who once where landlords but now living like the rest of people or the officials who still thought old or talked about things against what everyone else thought".

I even went on to outline who weren't victims after you said something about Cluster# which you are still as yet to explain the meaning

"These people who supposedly "terrorised" these communities were the VAST majority and the people getting terrorised where former landowners and thugs who terrorised these people beforehand. Communism was universally accepted amongst the chinese communities simply because it appealed to them."


Deng Xiao Ping was a obvious victim of the cultural revolution because victim is still is defined as "One who is harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition" and not a certain standpoint you have. But because he suffered from a certain act (cultural revolution) he is considered a Victim. Other moderate leaders like him or radcial communist were targeted because of their capitalist tendencies


ONly when peple came to the West could they feel free to tell the real truth. The truth which you like to call fanatasy as it doesn't sit well with your blind faith.


You mean the Blind faith of pictorial evidence, countless personal accounts of events, documentation, real personal accounts after the cultrual revolution as opposed to this "truth" they supposedly told without any edvidence of these events. Maybe your the one with "blind faith" and "fantasies?



You like to give the impression that you live in CHina, yet you were raised in Australia, being Chinese heritage does not give you some inherant authority about China.I had to laugh before how you said you were fluent in 7 languages as well,


You said I don't speak 7 languages, what is your logic behind that?. You also said that I change my so-called "life-story", know Mr Rogue1, WHERE HAVE I EVER CHANGED MY LIFE STORY.

Give the impression that im living in china?. How about the numerous threads i stated that i live in Australia, how about the numerous threads that I stated my family history?. You like to bend the truth on many occasions, my authority on chinese matters is not owing to where i was rasied nor who I was or if im chinese or not. Its my vast amount of knowledge aquired reading numerous books published by both sides of the so called "bambo curtain", foreign diplomatic statements, the fact that I have been to china at regular intervals for my whole life, the fact that i have met high ranking provincial officals all the way down to the common inner chinese migrant. Or maybe owing to the fact that I send a great amount of time on the largest chinese forums frequented by chinese party members of differing ranking.

That is a major difference between me and you, we might have read the same books or you were even born in china, that doesn't matter. What actually matters is I have been out and met a vast amount of people with no confines in chinas SEZ region which has seen the most major change in the history of the human race. The fact that I can trace my background to the 8 generations before myself and the fact that I am actually accepted as family when talking to most of these people gives me un-rated accress to the people I talk to



LOL, so you found the only instance of a small american raid, so what ? What is the pint you are trying to make. IMO the US should have bombed Manchuria extensively.


LOLLOLOLOLOL

Now its a small instance of bombing attacks. Before you said they never "bombed the otherside of teh Yalu, amybe a few stray bombs" now it wsn't a stray bomb but now a American raid?. Why did i find i instance of "US bombed the other side of the Yalu". You still got it roge1, your still the king of BS

Here are the quotes from you below
"The US never bombed the otherside of teh Yalu, amybe a few stray bombs."

"Why don't you find an instance where the US bombed the other side of the Yalu ? You're the one making the allegations."



The Soviets sent in their elite pilots, the PLAAF pilots were crap.


And this is based on what?

The fact that the Soviets ADMITTED they lost 345 MIG-15s out of a total of 379 confirmed american kills?. Doesn't that suggest that the Soviet pilots were the worse pilots or do you have another excuse why the supposedly better Soviet pilots suffered in excess of 400%+ more losses than chinese pilots?

The Soviets sent their "elite" pilots from the PISTON era dogfights to fight in Jet interceptors which weren't designed for dogfighting. Any techniques or traits they had were mostly worthless against an airforce flying much more maneuverable fighters designed for dogfighting with quick firing machine guns rather than cannons designed for shooting down large bombers like the B-29 which were their primary mission. The main advantages the Mig-15 had was its climb rate, speed and the weight of ammo it could put down on its target with its Cannon fire. The Soviets were simply shot down when they tried to take on the American bombers by the Sabres because they weren't watching their backs


LOL, they knoew because they picked up radoi transmisison in RUssian from teh MIG's all the time. The PLAAF attacked in mass, if they encountered a force of almost even strength they ran off.


The story actually goes that they suspected there were Russian pilots because they heard these russians talk on the radio, and only extremely rarely since they had to keep radio silence for obvious reasons. This was ONLY confirmed when the Russians later admitted they entered the war. Until that the Americans only had rumours about this Russian presence in the Korean war since the Koreans supposedly kept shut when this happened and was not allowed to speak. You imply that the russians freely ran around the Korean penisula with red hair and speical markings so the USAF knew they were there

The PLAAF attacked in mass?. You mean a combination of 40 PLAAF againest 20 escorts and 30 bombers?. There might be less Sabres but no battle was uneven because the MiG-15 had to destroy the bombers since it was their main objective while the sabres had a free hand. And the PLAAF ran off?, who are you quoting this off?, you mean those American "aces" who claimed 792 fighters but only got 379 confirmed?



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 05:07 AM
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Now that this figure, the Chinese government has invested 44.3% of the GDP into the economy. Chinas economy is more than 2.5 TRILLION dollars, it works out to more than ONE TRILLION dollars in 2006 ONLY. More than all foriegn investment or FDI has generated in china for 25 years.


Right so the CHInese goverment taxes the people and businesses 100%. According to you the 2.5 trillion in GDP goes entirely to the Chinese government. Before you continue insulting me about my business accumen, I suggest you do a hell of alot more reading about economics
You obviously don't undertstand the subject.

About Korea you are wrong, but I can'r be bothered getting into a slugging match, I get absolutely nothing out of reading your posts. Your " facts " are completely wrong and you lack an understanding of the dubject you're talkng about. But hey, I have a good laugh. I've emailed some of your posts to people over here and they have a good laugh too. Some don't even think you're Chinese LMAO.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by rogue1]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
So the PLAAF only claimed 14 kills


What the hell are you rambling on about?

Where ever you got this information is about the Number of recorded losses he COLLECTED, not all the losses of the Korean war. If you missed such a simple line and then go on to babble on about only claiming 14 kills (which actually was 29kills) must be nuts.

Here is his quote if you missed it "Overall, so far I have records of 3,041 aircraft lost in Korea"


There is nothing on the internet about the Korean airwar offical but from memory its 220+ or might even be 230+ stated in Chinas official account of the war or peace mission



Yet Sabre pilots routinely disobeyed orders and flew over th Yalu to down PLAAF MIgs, what they termed easy meat.


And these "aces" claimed 792 kills in the Korean war while evidence only suggests 379?. How do you explain this, or their super exploits of easy meat they had to make false claims about all these kills. Not to mention the fact that their buddies routinely lied about downing planes to get their "ace" status.

Again, selective reading, you hardly know anything more than propaganda read directly from the source of the moth of all propaganda from the pilots themselves. They had every reason to lie about getting those kills and getting those benifits. Some how Soviet pilots are termed elite even through they suffered nearly all the casualties while chinese pilots are crap een through they didn't suffer one quarter of the casulties

[edit on 9-2-2007 by chinawhite]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
Right so the CHInese goverment taxes the people and businesses 100%. According to you the 2.5 trillion in GDP goes entirely to the Chinese government.


What Part of 44.3% of the GDP dont you get?. You dont even need to know about economics because this is not a economics question. Its all about logic. I got this figure from the CIA-factbook and quoted what they wrote.

So far in these few post i have managed to dis-prove numerous points you made, here are a list of them i disproved

- The foreign companies leave and china will implode
- Some crap about the cultural revolution
- Some more crap about i admitted something about everyone derserverly getting punished in the culutral revolution
- Maos part in the culutral revolution
- Korean war, every detial
- American bombing of manchuria, many changing stories on your part

- Some other things about some changes of my life story

Your business?, you mean the sweatshop you just work for?


About Korea you are wrong, but I can'r be bothered getting into a slugging match, I get absolutely nothing out of reading your posts. Your " facts " are completely wrong and you lack an understanding of the dubject you're talkng about.


I lack an understanding of the dubject?. You mean Cluster# which you are still yet to explain what it means.

There is NO slugging match on my part, I reply in a orderly fanshion and present multiple sources while you go on and ramble about this and that without ANY proof to back it up. When you are disected and asked for edvidence you always come up with these lame excuses how you cant reply and then suddenly re-appear when the old thread is gone and start going on again


But hey, I have a good laugh. I've emailed some of your posts to people over here and they have a good laugh too. Some don't even think you're Chinese LMAO.


You can talk to your imaginary friends(like your second account which you talk to) but people laugh at you IN YOUR FACE AND ON TOP OF IT, Like your reputation for getting multiple warnings in a couple of days (I think you still hold that record), do you really want me to reference things people said about you?

Apparently i live in country Victoria and im not chinese in your dream world. Even after i shown you my double passports and Visa and ask you for some proof of your accusations you keep on coming up with this stupid argument



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by rogue1
Right so the CHInese goverment taxes the people and businesses 100%. According to you the 2.5 trillion in GDP goes entirely to the Chinese government.


What Part of 44.3% of the GDP dont you get?. You dont even need to know about economics because this is not a economics question. Its all about logic. I got this figure from the CIA-factbook and quoted what they wrote.


What part of a axation system don't you understand, obviously none of it. For the CHinese governetmn to reinvest 44.3% of GDP they would vae to have a 100% tax rate, meaning that every cent earned by anybody has to go straight to the government. Are ou too stupid to understand that. You don't know what you're talking about.


So far in these few post i have managed to dis-prove numerous points you made, here are a list of them i disproved


LOL you haven't dispproved anything, you're complete lack of economic understanding shows that. You'lll obviously never be able to run a business.



- Some other things about some changes of my life story


Which part, teh one where all of a sudden you could speak 7 languages fluently or the part where you hvae a very wealthy uncle in CHina who has a factory with 2 employees ?
You hvae been proven to be a BS artist and constantly make things up about yoursef which don't have a shred of truth.



Your business?, you mean the sweatshop you just work for?[/quo]

Not my business a Taiwanese persons business. one of the biggest shoe factoris in the world. I find it immensely funny and hypocritical of you, that you call this place a sweat factory, especially after trumpeting the virtues of China. You obviously really don;t know anything about CHina and I seriously doubt as other Chinese peple here, that you have been here at all. Itseems quite evident that you don't have any first hand knowledge and any information you do put forward comes from the internet.


About Korea you are wrong, but I can'r be bothered getting into a slugging match, I get absolutely nothing out of reading your posts. Your " facts " are completely wrong and you lack an understanding of the dubject you're talkng about.




Apparently i live in country Victoria and im not chinese in your dream world. Even after i shown you my double passports and Visa and ask you for some proof of your accusations you keep on coming up with this stupid argument


LMAO, you showed a picture of the front of a Chinese passport once and call that evidence. I have could easily do teh same thing, big deal hardly proof< LOL. ANd you showed no Visa, not that that wouldn't be easy t come bny either.

PS. The PLAAF oficail history in KOrea only claimed 14 UN planes shot down. I think that speaks for themselves, the PLAAF was crap, their pilots were of a poor standard with very little training. They may hvae had less planes shot down than the SOviets only because they ran away from combat whilst the SOviets faught.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
When you are disected and asked for edvidence you always come up with these lame excuses how you cant reply and then suddenly re-appear when the old thread is gone and start going on again


LOL, the problem is you don't supply any evidence to back you up. You post a few quotes from teh interent which do not back you up. Mnay peoel ahve shown you to be wrong.
I liked one time how you dind't even understand basic aerodynamics even after several posters explained it to you multiple times in very simple language. After I think about 2 weeks of people gettingfed up wwith you, you come back with a lame excuse saying you used the wrng equation. It's basic stuff, you don't need any equaitons t know that. This reall showed you up for the BS artist you are.
Many times you try and make yourself out to be some type of whizz kid , aka " I speak 7 languages fluently ". I'm not sure if this is too make yourself more significant or to prvide a laugh for people. It certainly makes us laugh.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 02:53 PM
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ANSWER THIS FIRST, another one of your tricks to stop posting then I the other person makes a smaller post to get people distracted from the post you missed




Originally posted by rogue1
Please provide some information to back up this statement, or is this just more made up bravado of yours.


Now your the one asking for proof. You seem to always ask but never provide, its funny looking at little children asking for things all the time. Why do you always doubt me, I have always presented proof even when you begged me to



USchina.org

Now look at this total of FDI in china. It clearly states that the MOST FDI comes from Hong Kong. Now their is another figure you should also take note of. Beginning 25 years ago (to 2004) there has been $400billion foreign dollars invested in china, divide this figure by 25 and you get $16 Billion dollars a year. Now that this figure, the Chinese government has invested 44.3% of the GDP into the economy. Chinas economy is more than 2.5 TRILLION dollars, it works out to more than ONE TRILLION dollars in 2006 ONLY. More than all foriegn investment or FDI has generated in china for 25 years.


Now what about this statement that china will "implode" without this FDI. Another lie on your part, seems to make absurd comments without any facts or should i say bravado?




You clearly aren't the head of business operations for the sweatshop you work in from the display of knowledge on the chinese economy



Well for the very bvious reason, any inforamtion that brigs Mao and the Communist party into disrepute is heavily censored.


Describe the term heavily censored?.

Your knowledge of chinese history is completely ridiculous, must be because you cant read chinese books and haven't read these "supposedly censored" books that aren't published. Its common knowledge what happened in the aftermath of the cultural revolution and who was responsible, these are even written in english books. The gang of four, Deng Xiao Ping, reforms etc are fundermental knowledge for anyone how has the slightly knowledge of the cultural revolution, its all about knowledge of the event, what lead to them and the evualtion or end result of what happened.

There are many books published about what happened in the cultural revolution in china which are not cherry picking or missing "important bits" through "censored" material. They give events, they give details and most importantly they attack the high leadership at that time which was the gang of four. There was a MASSIVE public trial which had nothing to do with the CCP because they were the one under trial. The culprits were charged and some arrested. What has been vigorously reported was a event in 1968 when Mao found out what was happening in the countryside and immediately put a stop to it. The CCP does not censor it simply because there is nothing to censor because these attacks weren't seen or were offered by the CCP but a foreign third party in the form of the gang of four.

You then state below that we both agree that Mao was incompetant which re-enforces my point that the Chinese government does not consider a threat to Mao or the CCP

Which goes back to your same point that the CCP would somehow censor this material even though none of this implicated them


before you were asying how all the people persecuted were deservedly so, now you say their are victims.


I actually asked you to describe the word innocent

I never did say all people were deservedly persecuted, I actually asked for a distinction between the so called victims "How would you describe innocent?, people who once where landlords but now living like the rest of people or the officials who still thought old or talked about things against what everyone else thought".

I even went on to outline who weren't victims after you said something about Cluster# which you are still as yet to explain the meaning

"These people who supposedly "terrorised" these communities were the VAST majority and the people getting terrorised where former landowners and thugs who terrorised these people beforehand. Communism was universally accepted amongst the chinese communities simply because it appealed to them."


Deng Xiao Ping was a obvious victim of the cultural revolution because victim is still is defined as "One who is harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition" and not a certain standpoint you have. But because he suffered from a certain act (cultural revolution) he is considered a Victim. Other moderate leaders like him or radcial communist were targeted because of their capitalist tendencies


ONly when peple came to the West could they feel free to tell the real truth. The truth which you like to call fanatasy as it doesn't sit well with your blind faith.


You mean the Blind faith of pictorial evidence, countless personal accounts of events, documentation, real personal accounts after the cultrual revolution as opposed to this "truth" they supposedly told without any edvidence of these events. Maybe your the one with "blind faith" and "fantasies?



You like to give the impression that you live in CHina, yet you were raised in Australia, being Chinese heritage does not give you some inherant authority about China.I had to laugh before how you said you were fluent in 7 languages as well,


You said I don't speak 7 languages, what is your logic behind that?. You also said that I change my so-called "life-story", know Mr Rogue1, WHERE HAVE I EVER CHANGED MY LIFE STORY.

Give the impression that im living in china?. How about the numerous threads i stated that i live in Australia, how about the numerous threads that I stated my family history?. You like to bend the truth on many occasions, my authority on chinese matters is not owing to where i was rasied nor who I was or if im chinese or not. Its my vast amount of knowledge aquired reading numerous books published by both sides of the so called "bambo curtain", foreign diplomatic statements, the fact that I have been to china at regular intervals for my whole life, the fact that i have met high ranking provincial officals all the way down to the common inner chinese migrant. Or maybe owing to the fact that I send a great amount of time on the largest chinese forums frequented by chinese party members of differing ranking.

That is a major difference between me and you, we might have read the same books or you were even born in china, that doesn't matter. What actually matters is I have been out and met a vast amount of people with no confines in chinas SEZ region which has seen the most major change in the history of the human race. The fact that I can trace my background to the 8 generations before myself and the fact that I am actually accepted as family when talking to most of these people gives me un-rated accress to the people I talk to



LOL, so you found the only instance of a small american raid, so what ? What is the pint you are trying to make. IMO the US should have bombed Manchuria extensively.


LOLLOLOLOLOL

Now its a small instance of bombing attacks. Before you said they never "bombed the otherside of teh Yalu, amybe a few stray bombs" now it wsn't a stray bomb but now a American raid?. Why did i find i instance of "US bombed the other side of the Yalu". You still got it roge1, your still the king of BS

Here are the quotes from you below
"The US never bombed the otherside of teh Yalu, amybe a few stray bombs."

"Why don't you find an instance where the US bombed the other side of the Yalu ? You're the one making the allegations."



The Soviets sent in their elite pilots, the PLAAF pilots were crap.


And this is based on what?

The fact that the Soviets ADMITTED they lost 345 MIG-15s out of a total of 379 confirmed american kills?. Doesn't that suggest that the Soviet pilots were the worse pilots or do you have another excuse why the supposedly better Soviet pilots suffered in excess of 400%+ more losses than chinese pilots?

The Soviets sent their "elite" pilots from the PISTON era dogfights to fight in Jet interceptors which weren't designed for dogfighting. Any techniques or traits they had were mostly worthless against an airforce flying much more maneuverable fighters designed for dogfighting with quick firing machine guns rather than cannons designed for shooting down large bombers like the B-29 which were their primary mission. The main advantages the Mig-15 had was its climb rate, speed and the weight of ammo it could put down on its target with its Cannon fire. The Soviets were simply shot down when they tried to take on the American bombers by the Sabres because they weren't watching their backs


LOL, they knoew because they picked up radoi transmisison in RUssian from teh MIG's all the time. The PLAAF attacked in mass, if they encountered a force of almost even strength they ran off.


The story actually goes that they suspected there were Russian pilots because they heard these russians talk on the radio, and only extremely rarely since they had to keep radio silence for obvious reasons. This was ONLY confirmed when the Russians later admitted they entered the war. Until that the Americans only had rumours about this Russian presence in the Korean war since the Koreans supposedly kept shut when this happened and was not allowed to speak. You imply that the russians freely ran around the Korean penisula with red hair and speical markings so the USAF knew they were there



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 04:57 PM
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OMG... what's the point for discussions about some paper tiger~????


classic rouge1 vs chinawhite again

you guys should meet some day, and do a real serious discussion that lasts for weeks. lol

[edit on 2/9/2007 by warset]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 05:11 PM
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Before you do more tricks like using two accounts or making fake quotes, answer my initial post because another of your tricks is to run away from a real debate and call it a slug-fest(which is false) while you then create more little post that has nothing to do with it but attack the person. You always seem to do it and always seem to get multiple warnings after you cannot handle being civilized


Originally posted by rogue1
What part of a axation system don't you understand, obviously none of it. For the CHinese governetmn to reinvest 44.3% of GDP they would vae to have a 100% tax rate




Investment is not how much money you have but how much money you put in. Economist measure investment by governments as a percentage of their GDP, they dont use all the money they had in one year but acquired this many through their reserves and through loans they had taken out with the banks. GDP is the total goods and services sold in china in one FINANCIAL YEAR not the worth of all the structures or previous investments. This means that th chinese government had invested 43.3% of their GDP back into their economy in the 2006 period. Not the actual GDP or revenue they made in that period

The fact that you cant even understand INTERNATIONALLY RECONIZED methods of measuring investments and then talking about investments


Which part, teh one where all of a sudden you could speak 7 languages fluently or the part where you hvae a very wealthy uncle in CHina who has a factory with 2 employees ?


All of a sudden?. You mean the time a few years ago?. I have always said I am a member of Fujians multiple ethnic groups and even alluded to them in past threads. Because I don't wear a banner stating them all the time doesn't mean I somehow "changed my life story". Ludahai a former/current member knows all about me from a previous thread over here. He has a PhD in Taiwanese history. You can even try contact him to find out or I could even resource the quotes from a few years ago about my situation

I have lots of uncles, which one are you referring to. They all live in the same geographic location in fujian and they work for each other although my oldest uncle has the factories making packaging.


Why dont you come up with some proof this time and provide me with evidence of me changing my story, or how about me saying I lived in country Victoria?


You hvae been proven to be a BS artist


Oh my, why dont you quote some of them. Or maybe I should un-dust the things people said about you in only a 5 day period?

I seem to be the only providing pictures and edvidence, why dont you provide proof of this factory which is "one of the worlds largest"?. I guess your evidence trial never started




one of the biggest shoe factoris in the world. I find it immensely funny and hypocritical of you, that you call this place a sweat factory, especially after trumpeting the virtues of China.


One of the biggest?. I thought it made 80% of the worlds shoes LOL. how much do they employ, 13,000 on a Monday and then changed your story to 80,000 on a Wednesday?. Oh only one factory now?, i thought that was your excuse for saying 13,000 the first time. Oh changing stories again, why cant you keep any of your stories right?. How about that ridiocus restranturant this "taiwanese business man could afford" Looks like some cheap market stall your cheap tourist package managed to afford.

The virtures of china?. I trumpet the place where i come from, not some small sweatshop you live in which you even admitted was third world conditions. I trumpet chinas growth and its industries, not some poor westerner who works in a sweatshop, im not here to protect their rights


you showed a picture of the front of a Chinese passport once and call that evidence.


I showed you my chinese passport which was a old edition you could have only got from 1988-1992 next to my brand new Australian passport. Now please tell me how the hell I could have got a picture of a chinese passport dated from 1988-1992?. I showed you my Visa from a trip in 1999.

And your chinese friends in china?, of really they speak english to you since you have absolutely no understanding of the chinese mlanguage. Did you ask your dad what he thought or that "taiwanese" *cough* sweatshop *cough* owner



The PLAAF oficail history in KOrea only claimed 14 UN planes shot down.


PROOF

What the hell are you rambling on about?

Where ever you got this information is about the Number of recorded losses he COLLECTED, not all the losses of the Korean war. If you missed such a simple line and then go on to babble on about only claiming 14 kills (which actually was 29kills) must be nuts. You cant even read the thing you quoted, you missed out on it twice, even though I informed you already

Here is his quote if you missed it "Overall, so far I have records of 3,041 aircraft lost in Korea"


The fact you try to pull this off as some type of offical source show your complete ignorance to reality



[edit on 9-2-2007 by chinawhite]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by rogue1
LOL, the problem is you don't supply any evidence to back you up.


Of the irony of this quote, I have provided more than several sources whilst you have provided nothing.

/oh the irony




I liked one time how you dind't even understand basic aerodynamics even after several posters


Several members?

Can you even count properly?, how about reading the time





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