Why Are You Attacking Jesus?

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I disagree speaker, I believe Jesus had the whole truth,

As is your right to disagree... Yeah, Jesus knew the truth.. He was probably one of the very few, if not the only one, to really know the whole truth. However, a person that knows the whole truth cannot even be debated... I have yet to come across a person who presently inhabits the earth that cannot be debated..

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Everything you said is still not convincing,

Good! Because I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I don't need you to agree with me.

don't you see how everything falls apart once you take God out of the picture?

Not for me. I am quite together. Nothing is falling apart.

He is the basis for all morals

Not to me.

So, you don't want there to be a Just God who Judges? then let everyone do what they want, there is nothing to pay.

It's not about what I want. And no, I don't believe in a sin/pay type of system. But I do believe that if I behave in a way that is out of integrity with my beliefs, I will experience negative effects.

Why waste your time being moral?

Because it's the right thing to do. And I believe strongly in "Do the right thing".

According to you, we are gonna get the same fate as Hitler.

That's not my concern. I don't even think about it. It's not for me to say.

Because it's the right thing to do. And I believe strongly in "Do the right thing".

What is "right." Could you please show me without a doubt that such a thing exists? Didn't we just make it up. My "right" may be different than yours, as I have stated a million times.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I actually didn't want you to take offense, but rather take my words under advisement. I believe that we need to pick apart everything supernatural to find the natural within it, otherwise we're back where we started, believing in magic.

I see....

Considering your self admitted attacking of all things Christian I assumed you wanted to offend when you said "far fetched things". Glad I was wrong.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
If you don't think your NDE was just a dream, hallucination, or whatever that's fine by me, but I have yet to be convinced.

I know what it was but don't feel the need to prove anything or convince anyone.

To me, right is right and wrong is wrong. I certainly do not need any religion to know the difference. For example,

Is rape right or wrong? You shouldn't have to think very hard on that one.

While murder can be justified, to murder just for the sake of murdering is certainly wrong, right?

It is safe to say that at least 85% of the population would state that committing either one of the above mentioned acts is wrong.. Many of that 85% most likely practice no form of religion at all. So, stating that someone needs a religion to determine what is right or wrong is a fallacy.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
To me, right is right and wrong is wrong. I certainly do not need any religion to know the difference. For example,

Is rape right or wrong? You shouldn't have to think very hard on that one.

While murder can be justified, to murder just for the sake of murdering is certainly wrong, right?

It is safe to say that at least 85% of the population would state that committing either one of the above mentioned acts is wrong.. Many of that 85% most likely practice no form of religion at all. So, stating that someone needs a religion to determine what is right or wrong is a fallacy.

You don't even see what you are saying, religion is not needed to determine what is "right" or "wrong", God is.

And where does this "right" or "wrong" come from? if it's not from God, then it's just something we made up.

this "Right" or "Wrong" Must have came from somewhere. Is it from God? Or is it just something we made up?

So rape may not be wrong, if "right" and "wrong" is something we made up, since it's all just relative, unless of course, there is a God, which their is.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
It is safe to say that at least 85% of the population would state that committing either one of the above mentioned acts is wrong.. Many of that 85% most likely practice no form of religion at all. So, stating that someone needs a religion to determine what is right or wrong is a fallacy.

Well said

To even think we totally rely on an external guide to doing right and wrong is to suggest we are almost psychopathic.



[edit on 14-12-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
It is safe to say that at least 85% of the population would state that committing either one of the above mentioned acts is wrong.. Many of that 85% most likely practice no form of religion at all. So, stating that someone needs a religion to determine what is right or wrong is a fallacy.

Well said

To even think we totally rely on an external guide to doing right and wrong is to suggest we are almost psychopathic.



[edit on 14-12-2006 by melatonin]

It is not that it is needed, it is that God has put this law within us.

And if there is no God, then there is no right or wrong, since all is relative.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
It is not that it is needed, it is that God has put this law within us.

And if there is no God, then there is no right or wrong, since all is relative.

Do you think that monogamy is inherent to human nature and was a moral law put into us by god?

Originally posted by thehumbleone
It is not that it is needed, it is that God has put this law within us.

And if there is no God, then there is no right or wrong, since all is relative.

you know, it could just be a product of a genetically inherited moral sense along with several environmental factors

and if there is no god there is right and wrong
sure, it may have basis in the purely philosophical

and read the old testament, tell me if THOSE laws should still be used
because those, according to you, come from the bible which is the direct word of god

well, I'm a Christian, so I believe god put this moral law into our hearts, and to deny there is not a law working in us is a bunch of BS.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by thehumbleone
It is not that it is needed, it is that God has put this law within us.

And if there is no God, then there is no right or wrong, since all is relative.

you know, it could just be a product of a genetically inherited moral sense along with several environmental factors

and if there is no god there is right and wrong
sure, it may have basis in the purely philosophical

and read the old testament, tell me if THOSE laws should still be used
because those, according to you, come from the bible which is the direct word of god

All I know is what Jesus taught, Love God with all you heart, mind,soul, and strength.

Love your neighbor as yourself, and love your enemies.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and read the old testament, tell me if THOSE laws should still be used
because those, according to you, come from the bible which is the direct word of god

Fortunantly we have a new covenant (agreement) with God that came with the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.


[edit on 12/14/2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and read the old testament, tell me if THOSE laws should still be used
because those, according to you, come from the bible which is the direct word of god

Fortunantly we have a new covenant (agreement) with God that can with the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Amen Brother! Well said KL.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
well, I'm a Christian, so I believe god put this moral law into our hearts, and to deny there is not a law working in us is a bunch of BS.

I'm not sure if this is answering my question, but I'll give the response as I expected to...

Anthropological studies show that monogamy showed in 16% of over 800 different societies and cultures. Polygyny was the norm at 83% (harem stylee), and only 1% were polyandrous.

Now, I'm a big supporter of monogamy, as the figures show, it was generally the females who had the hard time. So I agree with it. But monogamy is certainly not burned into ones heart.

I've posted a little study that shows how the more religious a society is, the more dysfuntional it is, so I don't see any link between religious belief and morality. You can step in and discuss why this is if you like, I was thinking of posting a thread about it, but I don't care for thread posting...

Anyway, I would class myself as one of the 'athiests for Jesus' crew

[edit on 14-12-2006 by melatonin]

You know, the law can become corrupted, and when you're in the darkness for so long, of course you're gonna be blind to certain things.

Just look at the Nazis.

I've posted a little study that shows how the more religious a society is, the more dysfuntional it is, so I don't see any link between religious belief and morality. You can step in and discuss why this is if you like, I was thinking of posting a thread about it, but I don't care for thread posting...

I don't know how true this is, people are people, whether they pretend to be religious or not.

It's the ones who really follow Christ teachings that a study should be done on.

Originally posted by thehumbleone

I've posted a little study that shows how the more religious a society is, the more dysfuntional it is, so I don't see any link between religious belief and morality. You can step in and discuss why this is if you like, I was thinking of posting a thread about it, but I don't care for thread posting...

I don't know how true this is, people are people, whether they pretend to be religious or not.

It's the ones who really follow Christ teachings that a study should be done on.

So all those christians who profess themselves to be but do wrong, like Haggard are not 'true' christians.....OK...

Originally posted by thehumbleone
What is "right." Could you please show me without a doubt that such a thing exists?

If you can show me, without a doubt, that Jesus or God exists.

My "right" may be different than yours, as I have stated a million times.

Yes, it may. And I think it's up to you to decide what's right for you.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
religion is not needed to determine what is "right" or "wrong", God is.

I don't need God to determine what's right or wrong.

And where does this "right" or "wrong" come from?

It comes from me. And I apply it only to me. My "right" might be someone else's "wrong". It's not for me to tell other people what's right and wrong for them.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by melatonin
So all those christians who profess themselves to be but do wrong, like Haggard are not 'true' christians.....OK...

mel, i understand your frustration
o, the nominal christian cop-out
so, not everyone who says they are a christian is because a christian wouldn't do something wrong?

horrible horrible statements like that are why people have a problem with some christians