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Why Are You Attacking Jesus?

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posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I'll freely admit that I attack Christianity, and the church. It's a horrid thing that forces it's hand any chance it gets. And, worse yet, convinces its followers that those who do not believe as they do will burn in hell, and deserve it as they are heratics, and below them. When human equality is thrown out the window because of a difference of opinion I am personally insulted.

That aside, I'd like to address Humble's popularity argument. It's easy to convince people that your religion is the only way when you don't allow comparison. Christianity invades territories and villages, burn their religious scripture and declare it the work of the devil. Who knows how many centuries of knowledge and history have been burned in the name of Christ. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for the Moors, we may not know anything about European history prior to Christianity.

Basically, being the most violent and unforgiving does lead to the most followers, one way or another.

Mind you none of this is an attack on Christ himself, just the things done in his name. I actually don't believe that Christ was a true historical figure.



Did any of you bother to read this? he freely admits he attacks Christianity.

No, we do not believe everyone who is not a Christian is going to hell. We are not to judge anyone as Christ commanded us.

Matthew 7
Judging Others
1"Judge not, that you be not judged. 2For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.


When the time comes, he will judge us all.

You say it's easy to become the most popular religion when there are no comparisons. Well, we have had other comparisons for quite a while now and Chrisianity still has 2 BILLION adherents.




posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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People who say that Christ didn't exist are like the people who say we never landed on the moon. You can show those people videos, pictures, even a moon rock, and they still won't believe, that is unless of course, they are actually taken to the moon themselves.

If you cannot even accept the possibility that he existed, then no amount of evidence will prove to you otherwise.

If you cannot even accept the possibility we landed on the moon, then all the evidence is no use, you automatically blow it off as IMPOSSIBLE.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Mind you none of this is an attack on Christ himself, just the things done in his name.

Did any of you bother to read this? he freely admits he attacks Christianity.


Yes, but check the title of the thread. Why Are You Attacking Jesus? Nothing about Christianity.

And I notice you didn't bother answering the question I posed at the top of page 5:


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And so what if people attack your beliefs? Welcome to the world! Since when does Christianity hold a position above reproach? Every single belief in the world comes under scrutiny. Why should Christianity escape examination, disagreement, disapproval and opposition or even attack?



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
People who say that Christ didn't exist are like the people who say we never landed on the moon.


But why do you NEED everyone to believe the same things that you do??? Don't you know that people have different opinions about everything on this earth? If you like steak and someone else doesn't, do you get all righteously indignant and ask them why they don't like steak!?!? DO you tell them they're wrong? Do you take it personally? No. You allow them to hate steak and you to like steak.

Steak is GOOD! That's the truth! Must everyone agree with your views on that truth?



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Benevolent, that is my whole beef... Humble should have worded the title of his thread a bit differently.. But,hey, what do I know.. I am a "heretical" Christian..
:shk:



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And so what if people attack your beliefs? Welcome to the world! Since when does Christianity hold a position above reproach? Every single belief in the world comes under scrutiny. Why should Christianity escape examination, disagreement, disapproval and opposition or even attack?


An attack on Christianity IS an attack on Christ, Look at the key word there, CHRISTianity.

Why shouldn't it be attacked, hmm, well you were talking about respecting others beliefs, so i guess if you would practice what you preach that would be a good reason.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:39 PM
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Humble, look at the world today..Take a good look.. What's going on over in the Middle East? You cannot deny that to most people's point of view, there is a war going on that is caused, in many's minds, by Muslims and Christians... I don't think it's much of a surprise that both Islam and Christianity is coming under attack. I really don't.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
An attack on Christianity IS an attack on Christ, Look at the key word there, CHRISTianity.


An attack on a religion is not the same as an attack on a person. I can attack your opinions, but not you (according to ATS T&C) There's a big difference between attacking an IDEA and attacking a PERSON.



you were talking about respecting others beliefs,


No I wasn't. You have me confused with another poster. In fact, I don't claim to respect other people's beliefs. I respect other people and their right to have and express their beliefs, but I don't respect their beliefs. If I did, they'd be my beliefs.

I don't respect the belief of Christianity, but I will support to the death your right to have and express your belief, no matter how different it is from mine.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by thehumbleone
People who say that Christ didn't exist are like the people who say we never landed on the moon.


But why do you NEED everyone to believe the same things that you do??? Don't you know that people have different opinions about everything on this earth? If you like steak and someone else doesn't, do you get all righteously indignant and ask them why they don't like steak!?!? DO you tell them they're wrong? Do you take it personally? No. You allow them to hate steak and you to like steak.

Steak is GOOD! That's the truth! Must everyone agree with your views on that truth?


But you see, steak is just, food, what I'm trying to do is teach people the Truth that Christ revealed, what our eternal purpose is, can you blame me for doing that.

You see, in order for there to be Truth, there needs to be a basis for where that truth comes from, that basis would be God. And if there is a God, there can only be one truth, how can there be 10 or 20 different truths?

If there is no God, then everything flys out the window, everything then becomes relative and we eventually head down the path of nihilism.

If there is no God, who is to say what the truth is, who is to say what's "moral"? Everybody's truth could be true to themselves, man becomes the measure of things.

If he says it's ok to kill someone, well hell, who's gonna say it's "wrong" or "right." Anyway, what's the man got to lose, he dies, just like we all die, so we gained nothing over him, or that's what some of you believe, isn't it?



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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I notice that "humble" doesn't care to examine why his religion is under attack..He just wants to play victim... :shk:

[edit on 14-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Humble, look at the world today..Take a good look.. What's going on over in the Middle East? You cannot deny that to most people's point of view, there is a war going on that is caused, in many's minds, by Muslims and Christians... I don't think it's much of a surprise that both Islam and Christianity is coming under attack. I really don't.


And do you think this would somehow change if there were no Christianity or Islam? Give me a break, humans will alway start war, it could be of a cultural difference, a race difference, or maybe just man's need to shed blood.

I can garuntee 100% that if every religion was gone, there would still be war.

Instead of blaming religion, why don't you attack the character of man you seem to hold so highly.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by thehumbleone]



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 02:55 PM
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Me hold the character of man highly??
You obviously know nothing about me, "humble." Don't pretend as if you do..

I am the biggest critic of humanity on this board..As a matter of fact, I view most of humanity ignorant and not worthy of the love that God will grant them in the end.. So, as far as me holding "the character of man highly," is rather a laughable concept to me.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
what I'm trying to do is teach people the Truth


But who has asked you to be their teacher? I'm 30 years OLDER than you. I was raised in a Christian home. I have had every opportunity to choose Christianity. We all have the same access to Christianity that you do. Some of us choose something else. For you to deny our choice is disrespectful to us. But that's ok. I don't insist that you respect my right to have and express my belief the same as I do for you.

But please realize that as much as you believe in your beliefs, I believe in mine. And I will NEVER tell you that you should adopt my beliefs and I will NEVER put you down for having yours.

I know you think your way is the TRUTH for everyone. But I disagree. It's not hte truth for me. I KNOW this. We each find our way in life.

You are not my teacher, though. I have learned 50 times over anything that you could ever teach me about CHristianity. But I don't accept it as the truth and NOTHING you can do will change that.

Your approach (your righteous indignation) actually turns people away. Example is the very best way to teach and what you're doing is very ineffective.


Originally posted by thehumbleone
You see, in order for there to be Truth, there needs to be a basis for where that truth comes from, that basis would be God.


That's what you believe. It's not what I believe.



And if there is a God, there can only be one truth, how can there be 10 or 20 different truths?


I believe that there can be 100,000 different truths. I believe that the spiritual world is not under the constraints that we have here in the physical world.



If there is no God, then everything flys out the window, everything then becomes relative and we eventually head down the path of nihilism.


Another assumption of belief on your part. I disagree.



If there is no God, who is to say what the truth is,


I believe that each of us finds our own truth.



who is to say what's "moral"?


I determine my own morals.



Everybody's truth could be true to themselves, man becomes the measure of things.


I believe that there is much more to 'man' than the physical person sitting at your keyboard.
I believe that man has the capability to do an excellent job at being the measure of things.



If he says it's ok to kill someone, well hell, who's gonna say it's "wrong"


The law.



Anyway, what's the man got to lose, he dies, just like we all die, so we gained nothing over him, or that's what some of you believe, isn't it?


I'm not sure what this means...
It doesn't sound like something that's compatible with my beliefs, though.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 03:31 PM
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Actually,Benevolent, there aren't many different truths, there are just bits and pieces of a single truth.. The trap that many,not just Christians, but people in general fall into, is that they get the idea that they have the WHOLE truth. No living human being has the WHOLE truth.. He/she/they may have a part of the truth,but no one has the whole complete truth.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I once had a dream where I could fly. It was great. I was soaring above the earth and I felt absolutely free.

Does that mean that we can fly? Or, is a more likely explaination that when we're unconcious we can think up some pretty far fetched things, especially when the idea has been engrained in our minds since birth?


I realize that you want me to take offence to your comments but I have NO problem with you believing what you will. I am here to share my NDE, what is taken from it is up to the individual.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

But who has asked you to be their teacher? I'm 30 years OLDER than you. I was raised in a Christian home. I have had every opportunity to choose Christianity. We all have the same access to Christianity that you do. Some of us choose something else. For you to deny our choice is disrespectful to us. But that's ok. I don't insist that you respect my right to have and express my belief the same as I do for you.

But please realize that as much as you believe in your beliefs, I believe in mine. And I will NEVER tell you that you should adopt my beliefs and I will NEVER put you down for having yours.

I know you think your way is the TRUTH for everyone. But I disagree. It's not hte truth for me. I KNOW this. We each find our way in life.

You are not my teacher, though. I have learned 50 times over anything that you could ever teach me about CHristianity. But I don't accept it as the truth and NOTHING you can do will change that.

Your approach (your righteous indignation) actually turns people away. Example is the very best way to teach and what you're doing is very ineffective.


So what if you're thirty years older? Don't be so arrogant, you can learn something from everyone.

Who asked me to be their teacher? Christ did.

I never claimed to be righteous, although I try to teach people righteous things, i admitted on this thread that I am a bad sinner.

That's fine if you don't want to believe in Jesus, but I hope you believe in your truth 100% and believe without a doubt it is the truth.



That's what you believe. It's not what I believe.


"Do What Thou Wilt"



I believe that there can be 100,000 different truths. I believe that the spiritual world is not under the constraints that we have here in the physical world.


that's fine, this is another one of your beliefs.




Another assumption of belief on your part. I disagree.


Actually it's the truth, who's gonna tell us what's "right" or "wrong" now that we each have our own truth.




I believe that each of us finds our own truth.


that's fine, thats your own belief.



I determine my own morals.


Well that's fine but you're only a person, there may be someone out there who believes it's ok to kill you, who's gonna tell him it's wrong, it may be his truth, or part of his morals, we are our own measure now, remember?



I believe that there is much more to 'man' than the physical person sitting at your keyboard.
I believe that man has the capability to do an excellent job at being the measure of things.


Err, i don't know what world you're living in, but the last time i remembered, we started a war in Iraq that is ending up pretty bad. Yes, we're a real good measure of things aren't we?



The law.


Uh, that's not very convincing, man made the law, remember, isn't it all just relative?



I'm not sure what this means...
It doesn't sound like something that's compatible with my beliefs, though.


What it means is that some of you believe after death, that's it, so what I'm saying to you who believe this is, what do you gain above someone you call "bad."



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Actually,Benevolent, there aren't many different truths, there are just bits and pieces of a single truth.. The trap that many,not just Christians, but people in general fall into, is that they get the idea that they have the WHOLE truth. No living human being has the WHOLE truth.. He/she/they may have a part of the truth,but no one has the whole complete truth.


I disagree speaker, I believe Jesus had the whole truth, and if we believe in him, then we have the Truth with us, because he is the Truth.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
So what if you're thirty years older?


I'm just saying I've been around for a while and have had access to the same things you're 'preaching'. If I wanted to have a 'religion' I would have done it already.



Who asked me to be their teacher? Christ did.


Christ asked you to be his teacher? Then teach him. I didn't ask you to be my teacher. Who of these people you're trying to teach asked you to be their teacher???



I hope you believe in your truth 100% and believe without a doubt it is the truth.


I believe it's MY truth.



who's gonna tell us what's "right" or "wrong" now that we each have our own truth.


No one has to tell me.
I know what's right and wrong.



there may be someone out there who believes it's ok to kill you, who's gonna tell him it's wrong,


As I said before, the law.



What it means is that some of you believe after death, that's it,


I don't believe that. I believe in 'life' after death. Who is "some of you"? Some of who? What are we?



what do you gain above someone you call "bad."


I don't call people "bad". And I don't feel I have something to gain over other people.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
I realize that you want me to take offence to your comments but I have NO problem with you believing what you will. I am here to share my NDE, what is taken from it is up to the individual.


I actually didn't want you to take offense, but rather take my words under advisement. I believe that we need to pick apart everything supernatural to find the natural within it, otherwise we're back where we started, believing in magic. If you don't think your NDE was just a dream, hallucination, or whatever that's fine by me, but I have yet to be convinced.



posted on Dec, 14 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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@ Benevolent

Everything you said is still not convincing, don't you see how everything falls apart once you take God out of the picture?

He is the basis for all morals and without this basis, everything becomes relative because "right" and "wrong" must be something made up by humans.

So, you don't want there to be a Just God who Judges? then let everyone do what they want, there is nothing to pay.

Why waste your time being moral? According to you, we are gonna get the same fate as Hitler.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by thehumbleone]



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