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Holocaust - Fact or Fiction?

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posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Edn
I believe he is questioning the scale of the holocaust, i remember reading a while ago that he did not deny it happened only the scale.

It will be interesting to see how this develops.



very well put Edn I to question the accuracy of the "proof" that 6 million "jews" were killed during that war when today the Jewish population worldwide is something like 14 million.




posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:26 PM
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Amadmanajad may have a point but it's a moot one. Say the numbers add up to 2 mill as opposed to 6, what the hell is the difference, except for the numbers that is? That's still 2 million people killed. That's not an insignificant number. Intent is also an issue. Even if it had been 2 mill. maybe if he had the chance Hitler WOULD have made it 6 mill.

BTW, it DID happen. My Grandfather was in the Engineer's, the first to cross into Germany. He said little as to what he saw but he did see the camps and saw evidence as to what happened there.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:29 PM
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So the conference concludes with all of the world's experts proving that the Holocaust occurred, and then they are all beheaded by Iranian Islamofascist scum.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by southern_cross3
So the conference concludes with all of the world's experts proving that the Holocaust occurred, and then they are all beheaded by Iranian Islamofascist scum.


Wow, that added to the discussion. Do you have something to add other than preprogramming?

:shk:



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by ferretman2
Imaidiot wants to show the world that the holocust did happen. He will then use this 'proof' to say the Germany should of given it's land to the jews for the creation of Israel, not Palenstein. Though I'm sure he will ignore the fact that the Middle-east & Persia thought the palenstinains were lower than dog-doo and that it was a British colony (Britian could do what it wanted with the land) and that the UN verified the exisitence of Israel.

Imaidiot is going to use this as an excuse to attack Israel stating that they are on Mulism holy land and need to be removed.



Israel was already created in the bible and it was said to directly lie on top of modern day Palestine and a few other countries, If i am correct, the number of Catholic & Protestants killed in WW2 rivals the number of jews killed yet I notice it is rarely or never mentioned. When the word "Holocaust" is mentioned the first word that springs to mind is the word "Jew", it is printed on anyone who has had history at school, the whole war seems to be remembered for the so-called "near" extermination of a people.

I am not saying lots of Jews did not die during WW2, I only question the feasability of the mass genocide reported.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by marcopolo]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:41 PM
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What about the tattoos given to the Jews, the Jews who were real witnesses?



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by thedangler
they will come to find that not 6 million where killed but a couple million.

The totals were gathered from primarily German SS records, census data and professional estimates based on train traffic, processing 'reports' and eye witness accounts.


Originally posted by thedangler
those videos did.t show 6 million people getting killed.

What videos? You mean the films taken of the aftermath? How do you count the numbers of bodies in an ash pile?


Originally posted by thedangler
the holocaust did happen but the numbers of dead were over exaggerated.

Read the post regarding the numbers of war dead during WWII, the Waffen SS were second only to the Russians in their ability to exterminate people they didn't like.


Originally posted by thedangler
IBM made them machine that kept track of everyone so if they can get their hands on that data then we can get a rough idea of how many people were killed.

What?!? Please verify your claim with links to this "IBM Machine".



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Problem is, with the guest list set up the way it is, I can't help but think it's just an excuse for a bunch of small-minded bigots to get together and moan about 'The Joooooos!'


Not hard to fathom the motivation behind wanting to debunk the WWII holocaust, whether it be to question the number of innocent men, women and children killed, or even more incredibly question if it occured.

So easy to just sweep all those genocidal mass murders in human history under the rug.




posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by southern_cross3
So the conference concludes with all of the world's experts proving that the Holocaust occurred, and then they are all beheaded by Iranian Islamofascist scum.


Wow, that added to the discussion. Do you have something to add other than preprogramming?

:shk:


No he doesn't. As a matter in almost every single thread he writes down the most trendy word of ''Islamofascists''. I'd almost believe he's part of Israel's e-Army.

Ontopic. What is the big fuss about? Let them question the credibility of the Holocaust. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? I am convinced that it happened, so are many others, but I question the credibility of the official story on 9/11. Does anyone care? No. Is there a big difference? No.


I might also add: the Turks deny the genocide of the Armenians. Does the Western world (apart from Europe) care about that? No. However, as soon as Iran and Israel come in the picture a genocide suddenly becomes world news.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Mdv2]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 03:55 PM
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I think the reason he is skeptical is the problem of getting rid of 6 million bodies, burning them all is impossible. The furnaces are only good for a few bodies at a time, if you load them full the time and heat required to destroy them increases so much that it becomes too inefficient.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by DraconianKing
I think the reason he is skeptical is the problem of getting rid of 6 million bodies, burning them all is impossible. The furnaces are only good for a few bodies at a time, if you load them full the time and heat required to destroy them increases so much that it becomes too inefficient.


Ehm, ever heard of mass graves, ever seen documentaries on the liberation of those camps?



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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Are you kidding me? How can you account for the survivors who gave account of what they saw? How can you account for the MILLIONS of Jews who disappeared from the face of the Earth? They found the ovens, the mass graves. This is a joke, IRAN is a joke.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by thedangler

the holocaust did happen but the numbers of dead were over exaggerated.


Thank god someone at last that has a clue.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:15 PM
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I too think the Holocaust and "Final Solution" occured.
However, I also believe the numbers are flawed and impossible to truly count.
That being said, I'm with Intrepid. People WERE killed. A lot of people.
No matter how many it was, it remains a disgrace to this day.

Lex



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:35 PM
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This summit on the Holocaust is a joke. Surely one should be alowed to discuss and debate the Holocaust. By denying it ouright is simply substituting factual history by the fictitious point of view based on your prejudiced disposition or very poor education. There can be little arguement that those who deny the Holocaust are usually adversely dispositioned towards the Jews and/or Israel. And when it comes to history, especially history that concerns a crime of unsurpassed proportions, substituting a poorly formed point of view for facts simply does not hold.


Also, many people tend to tie Holocaust to what is going on in Israel/Palestine now. They are two very different things. If you do not support Israel or Zionists, you do not have to deny the Holocaust or underplay its relevance for the entire world.


And who cares about specifics- if it was 6 million that died, or 4 million, or 2 million. The fact is that people were exterminated based on their religion/ethnicity through a set routine and infrastructure especially prepared for this task. And it wasn't just the Jews if you remember. Millions of Slavic people were killed for who they were as well. The ruthlessness of Germans in Russia is surpassed only by their ruthlessness towards the Jews. The horrid lesson is not just how many people died, but the fact that their extermination could be carried out in a modern society in such routine and formal manner.

And for those who say the Holocaust is Jewish propaganda, how do you explain the fact that it was taught in Soviet Union. Soviet Union shunned the Jews as well, and tried to keep them out of politics. Yet WWII statistics based out of Soviet Union show the exact same facts- in some instances even exceeding the Western statistics.



Iran should really concern itself with more important matters than Israel and the Jews. It is understandable than nationalism based on hatered of a perceived enemy of Muslims is an easy rallying point for the population, but Israel really is the least of its worries.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:36 PM
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very well put Edn I to question the accuracy of the "proof" that 6 million "jews" were killed during that war when today the Jewish population worldwide is something like 14 million.


I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. Why do you question the generally accepted number's accuracy? The Germans were fastidious record keepers and this event is one of the most deeply studied in modern history. I imagine you must have some extremely compelling evidence to disregard the scale of the holocaust out of hand.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by DraconianKing
I think the reason he is skeptical is the problem of getting rid of 6 million bodies, burning them all is impossible.


Not all of them were cremated many were just shot or gassed then buried in mass graves.



The furnaces are only good for a few bodies at a time, if you load them full the time and heat required to destroy them increases so much that it becomes too inefficient.



And your assumption would be wrong big time some furnaces according to some sources say some them held 2000.


Birkenau is only about 3 km from Auschwitz. It worked on a much larger scale than Auschwitz. The total number of prisoners in Birkenau reached 200,000. It covers about 175 hectares (425 acres) and contained over 300 buildings. 45 brick and 22 wood buildings survived. Of the other buildings, only the brick chimneys remain. There were four huge gas chamber/crematorium complexes on the grounds of Birkenau. Each could hold 2000 people at a time.


Lets face it we all now the guy is a jerk and never will refuse to admit it happened, but the truth is, it did happen and it was not only Jews Many Poles were also killed.

Those were the two major groups that were exterminated, yet no one really knows how many other ethnics were also killed while Hitler tried to create his master race


There may be one good thing that may come of this though, several thousand demonstrators are now calling for his death and they are his own people, so his days may be numbered in more ways then one but only time will tell.

[edit on 12/11/2006 by shots]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by c3hamby
I'm just going to say this and than I am outta this discussion:

The Holocaust happened. They found the ovens, they found the incinerators...


Yes we know that. No one said it didn't happen...


Do people even read the sources before they hit reply?



President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has questioned the scale of the Holocaust, in which six million Jews died.


There. He didn't deny it actually happened.

Anyway, I think the discussion is a good approach to thinking about the issue.



"Its main aim is to create an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust"


It is true that if this type of discussing were to happen in the 'liberal speech' lands of USA/Europe, the participants would be harshly condemned or even punished, so at least Iran are actually opening an issue for free speech.

The only problem would be if they try to use it to attack Israels right to existence, then things might get a bit heated.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by shots
There may be one good thing that may come of this though, several thousand demonstrators are now calling for his death and they are his own people, so his days may be numbered in more ways then one but only time will tell.

[edit on 12/11/2006 by shots]


Good thing? Sorry man but I think that is just sick. We can argue semantics over the numbers of the Holocaust but when it comes to calling a death a "good thing" aren't we creaping onto the same ground as TO the Holocaust? :shk:



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Good thing? Sorry man but I think that is just sick. We can argue semantics over the numbers of the Holocaust but when it comes to calling a death a "good thing" aren't we creaping onto the same ground as TO the Holocaust? :shk:


I was not implying the holocaust was a good thing. What I was saying is it was a good thing even his own countrymen consider him a jerk, nothing more nothing less. Kindly do not assume I meant one thing when I meant something else.



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