Holocaust - Fact or Fiction?

Originally posted by malganis
The whole point of the discussion is that no one knows what the true numbers are, so how can we stick with them?

and the whole point of me replying here is to say that there are true numbers and people seems to avoid them. see my link above with complete bibliography of people that researched the topic.

the fact that some people are uneducated to not know doesnt mean that there is no truth.

wow nice phrase. i should write it down.

The holocaust is real.
You cant make up millions of dead bodies, death camps, gas chambers and the shear hatred around at that time.

I have stood in the gas chambers, and felt the cold air that only a room of such magnitude can bring.

When ahmajadine doubts the Holocaust, I think the language barrier is coming across wrong to most western values.

He's not saying it never happened, and its a made up lie..
he's saying..

If it happened on the scale that the world has been told to believe...

why arent the germans paying the price for THEIR haneous crime, by allowing ISRAEL and JEWS to flourish on their land.

If this was a true holocaust BROUGHT on the people by the GERMANS, then the GERMANS should be the ones baring the brunt of the repairs.
Not palestine.

And he has a point!

Anyone who says the holocaust DIDNT happen, is very shallow and pathetic.

your simply following the blind rhetoric your being led to believe is coming from a outspoken person of the times....

Wether your trying to be 'cool' by agreeing with someone so mis-understood and so hated and challenged..
or wether you dont have the ability, brains and reasoning to research it yourself and see the truths.. is beyond me to say.

but you cannot deny the millions of innocent people, who's lives were ended so abruptly.. and for NO REASON!


Hatred is a powerful thing.

Mankind failing to achnowledge the threat, such blind hatred can bring...
is even more devistating.



[edit on 12-12-2006 by Agit8dChop]

IA,

Yes and look who is invited to dinner- DD

If I read these news reports it sounds as if the purpose of the "conference" is to legitimise their hatred of Israell and set the stage so that Israel can be "wiped off the map".

Keep it....Casual

Originally posted by mrwupy
Ahmadinejad has a political agenda and this conference is a part of that. When all is said and done it will have changed little if anything. It will however further whatever political goals that maniac has brewing in his head.

This is just laying some ground work for his plans, and it's his plans that worry the hell out of me.

I believe the holacaust happened, but like many others I too question the numbers. I don't think it's actually possible to get an accurate count. The numbers we use were the ones that were conveniant when the history books were being written. That doesn't change the horror of what occurred.

He is simply testing the ability of free speach that the western world holds so close.

He feels that being its AGAINST The law to debate the authenticy of the holocaust in europe, that he should be able to hold a conferenec, in his own land.. under his own laws.. where people who WANT to debate the facts of this haneous crime, can come and freely talk..

Hitler hated the Jews.
Ahmajadine hates Israel.

there is a difference!

Originally posted by CasualOne
IA,

Yes and look who is invited to dinner- DD

If I read these news reports it sounds as if the purpose of the "conference" is to legitimise their hatred of Israell and set the stage so that Israel can be "wiped off the map".

Keep it....Casual

There are also many ANTI ZIONIST Rabbi's there tooo!

I dont believe for a second Ahmajadine is a nice person, nor a person with honest and good intentions.

but i think too many of you are too easily buying into this major BS being pumped into the airwaves by the west.

How many times do you need to smell rotten milk..

before you realise you shouldnt taste it?

why arent the germans paying the price for THEIR haneous crime, by allowing ISRAEL and JEWS to flourish on their land.

The ones responsible were tried and executed, they paid the price. You can't punish the entire country for the actions of the few, that's what happeneed after WW1 and the resentment it caused led directly to WW2 happening.

Jewish people can live in Germany if they choose, they are not banned from the country. Likewise Israel was not just plonked indiscriminately onto the map, it is where it is for a reason.

I point this out despite having little sympathy for the Israel of today and I also feel the need to ask what the hell does it matter how many millions died in the holocaust? Even if the actual number were proven to be fewer than we have believed for the last 60 years it does not make the event any less evil and horrific. Given that, what is the point of arguing how many people were killed? What purpose does it serve other than to try and cheapen the whole sorry episode?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
why arent the germans paying the price for THEIR haneous crime, by allowing ISRAEL and JEWS to flourish on their land.

If this was a true holocaust BROUGHT on the people by the GERMANS, then the GERMANS should be the ones baring the brunt of the repairs.
Not palestine.

do you expect jews to come to germany after the horros that the germans have done to them?! thats preposterous!!
the jews wanted to get away from germany as far as they could. an they went to israel. britain gave them of their own land... yes, dont forget that israel was part of britain and is in fact was given to the jews.
and as for the germans paying to the jews... its already happened. germany is paying untill this day to people that gone through the holocaust. so please dont make that rhetoric about how the germans should pay and not the palestinians... its hardly related.

Brtian giving Palestine to israel , just becuase it is 'fair' in western/british/jewish eyes.. doesnt mean its 'fair'

obviously, someone was left out of pocket in that little 'fair' trade.

Good point on the fears of jew's to return to germany after the haulocaust.

Regardless....


Ahmajadine is arguing that if Europe/Germany committed/Allowed such an event as desrcibed by the western world..

why is it palestine had to give up its land to them?

And dont tell me it was a fair purchase...

if it was a fair purcahse for the inhabitants of the land..
they wouldnt of immediatly formed AGAINST the israeli occupiers.

Ahmajadine has as much right to hold this conference, as the US does to invade and occupy an arab state.

It mightnt be 'right' in by the people...
but it doesnt seem to stop the leaders from doing soo.

Again,
I cannot understand why people are so prepared to publically shame a nation for holding a debate over a historical event....

yet they seem to be at a loss for words/actions when similar circumstances are arising from their OWN country

this conference in iran cannot be called anti-jewish because jews are also invited to attend.

so it may be anti-zionist but not anti-jewish.

British Rabbi Ahron Cohen, an Orthodox Jew is also in Iran to take part.

some jews and israelis who attended even agreed with
President Ahmedinejad that holocaust was a hoax.

Moshe Ayre Friedman, an Austrian rabbi, argued that the figure of six million Jewish dead had come from a prophecy by Theodore Herzl, founder of modern Zionism, long before the second world war.

He said recent research suggested the true figure was about one million.

"Politically and historically, the land of Palestine doesn't belong to the Jews and should be returned to Palestinians," he said.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Ive had relatives fight in ww2, and they can verify that they killed a great number of jews. I dont know it it was 6 million, but it was alot.

Tghe exact number should be discovered however so that germany can be alleviated of 60 years of guilt tripping. It was disgusting, but it was also war.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Brtian giving Palestine to israel , just becuase it is 'fair' in western/british/jewish eyes.. doesnt mean its 'fair'
[/quuote]

I agree. That is why britian should give up 1/3 of all their land for the resettlement of the jews.

Afterall, fair is fair.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Ive had relatives fight in ww2, and they can verify that they killed a great number of jews. I dont know it it was 6 million, but it was alot.

Tghe exact number should be discovered however so that germany can be alleviated of 60 years of guilt tripping. It was disgusting, but it was also war.

It was not war,
It was a understood slaughter of a race for purely evil reasons.

soilders die in war..
soilders are killed in war to win a war.
Eradication of a RACE has nothing to do with WAR!

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
obviously, someone was left out of pocket in that little 'fair' trade.

tough luck... maybe they should have think about creating their own country BEFORE it was given to the jews.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Ahmajadine is arguing that if Europe/Germany committed/Allowed such an event as desrcibed by the western world..

why is it palestine had to give up its land to them?

again, palestine didnt have any land. it was owned by britain and later on passed to the jews. they didnt give it up... it wasnt their's in the first place.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
And dont tell me it was a fair purchase...

if it was a fair purcahse for the inhabitants of the land..
they wouldnt of immediatly formed AGAINST the israeli occupiers.

no no. you are complety wrong and you have some lack of basic knowledge on this conflict. you better do some reading:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_War_of_Independence

read carefully about the background of this war and also the arab revolt that was prior to the war. to really understand the arab uprising against the jewish state.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Ahmajadine has as much right to hold this conference, as the US does to invade and occupy an arab state.

It mightnt be 'right' in by the people...
but it doesnt seem to stop the leaders from doing soo.

Again,
I cannot understand why people are so prepared to publically shame a nation for holding a debate over a historical event....

nobody says that he shouldn't hold this conference. its just a matter of perspective. your perspective about this matter is influenced by your view on other matters. it might be right for you but wrong for others.

[edit on 12-12-2006 by DeMitsuko]

I will take it up for reading as soon as i finish this graveyard shift..

Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
So all those videos were hoaxed? How do you explain that it was all fake? There is more than enough evidence that it was real.

there were videos of the moon landing but that doesnt make it true. there are claims of all kinds of things thru history but just because someone says it happened doesnt mean that it did. putting it on video doesnt make it true either. i mean they say that two airplanes flew into the world trade center on 9-11-01 and there are people saying that it really didnt happen. that there were no airplanes. maybe the iran leader is having his own little ATS meeting over there. i mean it is possible that what we have been told about the jews and hitler is made up and told to us as another means of controlling us and moving their agenda forward. my 2 cents im out....

I was under the impression that jews were not the only people sent to the camps.

They weren’t there were a lot more groups killed on similar if not larger, Catholics & Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Siekhs, Africans & Asians, and that wouldn’t begin to cut it any minorities at the time that didn’t fit the Nazi regime were abused.

Does any one know how many non-jews were killed, and if so what ethnic, religous, or political group they belonged?

No, just the same way no-one really knows how many Jews were killed.

You cant make up millions of dead bodies, death camps, gas chambers and the shear hatred around at that time.

Of course you cant but you have used the word “Millions”, meaning things are so easily exaggerated, you could say to someone that the last time you went to the pictures was “ages” ago , meaning you hadn’t been in 2 weeks, or you could say that the battle of Hastings was ages ago meaninghundreds of years ago 1066

It was a understood slaughter of a race for purely evil reasons.

It wasn’t just one race, the fact that the holocaust is now synonymous with “Jews” is reinforced here as the way you speak of race I take it you are talking about the Jews? universally acknowledged or what?, their were more people coming from Christian backgrounds killed yet we rarely acknowledge this.

Originally posted by marcopolo

No, just the same way no-one really knows how many Jews were killed.

let me rephrase your sentence: "i dont know how many jews were killed but for the heck of it ill say that no one knows."
read my posts above with links to books with in depth research on that matter.

Originally posted by marcopolo
Of course you cant but you have used the word “Millions”, meaning things are so easily exaggerated, you could say to someone that the last time you went to the pictures was “ages” ago , meaning you hadn’t been in 2 weeks, or you could say that the battle of Hastings was ages ago meaninghundreds of years ago 1066

you confuse simple day to day conversation with researches about an important subject. saying it was "ages ago" is not like the researches done about the holocaust and the literally millions of documents with figures.

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
this conference in iran cannot be called anti-jewish because jews are also invited to attend. so it may be anti-zionist but not anti-jewish.

From your own link

www.guardian.co.uk...

A group of radical anti-Zionist rabbis, Jews United Against Israel, who oppose a Jewish state on religious grounds, were given a prominent role.

Now just who do you think you are kidding here??? The rabbies they invited were radicals, therefore hardly trustworthy. Nothing like stacking the deck huh? :shk:




[edit on 12/12/2006 by shots]

they also invited a palestinian scholar to the event. He was going with the intention of showing that the holocaust did exist. He was denied a visa and not given an explanation as to why.

stacked deck, rigged game and for what purpose?

Originally posted by Crakeur
they also invited a palestinian scholar to the event. He was going with the intention of showing that the holocaust did exist. He was denied a visa and not given an explanation as to why.

stacked deck, rigged game and for what purpose?

for the purpose of hate.
otherwise why invite David Duke ex Ku Klux Klan.

David Duke, a former leader of the U.S. white supremacist group, was among those who attended the two-day conference.

edition.cnn.com...