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Holocaust - Fact or Fiction?

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posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 06:29 PM
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Calling for the death of anyone, regardless of what their belief is very wrong indeed, as well as a way of censoring their free speech. After WWII, many laws were made to punish those who denied the Holocaust, including death (Russia), and serving a maximum of 5 years in prison, in some European countries.

I find it quite funny that Bush wants to bring "freedom" to Iran, when Iranians have the freedom to make threats against the President, but in the US it's against the law. Very ironic indeed.




posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by shots
I was not implying the holocaust was a good thing. What I was saying is it was a good thing even his own countrymen consider him a jerk, nothing more nothing less. Kindly do not assume I meant one thing when I meant something else.


Um, no. You said:


Originally posted by shots


There may be one good thing that may come of this though, several thousand demonstrators are now calling for his death and they are his own people, so his days may be numbered in more ways then one but only time will tell.



Are you basically saying that we shouldn't take ANYTHING that you say seriously? Or just accept ignorance?



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 06:54 PM
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Ahmadinejad has a political agenda and this conference is a part of that. When all is said and done it will have changed little if anything. It will however further whatever political goals that maniac has brewing in his head.

This is just laying some ground work for his plans, and it's his plans that worry the hell out of me.

I believe the holacaust happened, but like many others I too question the numbers. I don't think it's actually possible to get an accurate count. The numbers we use were the ones that were conveniant when the history books were being written. That doesn't change the horror of what occurred.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Um, no. You said:


Originally posted by shots


There may be one good thing that may come of this though, several thousand demonstrators are now calling for his death and they are his own people, so his days may be numbered in more ways then one but only time will tell.



Are you basically saying that we shouldn't take ANYTHING that you say seriously? Or just accept ignorance?


No not at all what I am saying his own contrymen are calling for his death. I never stated I wanted him dead.

I also stated his days may be numbered but only time will tell and you took it to mean I wanted him Killed???? Give me a break and put down the Molson

I also left out the fact that the Iranian parliament are considering changing his term length because I did not think it was relevant to this discussion.

[edit on 12/11/2006 by shots]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by mr conspiracy
that is why some top western scholars and historians are heading to
Iran to ask him to explain all this evidence.

"Top" Western scholars and historians?
:shk:
Try again.
Those who have attended are not "top" Western scholars and historians, though some in attendence are correctly the "top" Western Holocaust deniers and revisonists around....





Other historians from europe and australia who
agree with Iran and say its all a hoax are also going to Iran to present their case.

List their names and cite your source, k?

As such, mr conspiracy, you are admittedly among one of the "top" Holocaust deniers and revisionists within this site. Your past topic/post history on this matter and others like it will indicate such, so how about just simply admit that which some of us already know concerning you and your Holocaust beliefs. I am actually surprised you are not attempting to get a plane ticket to be at that rejectionist convention....or are you...

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 09:44 PM
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I am amazed by the lack of education about the first ever assembly line mass murder of millions of innocent people.


Auschwitz

Mass Graves







Hmmm those who condone the horrors of "The Final Solution" sanction it's new Adolf Eichmann.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by mister.old.school
history is written by the victors.


As Hermann Goering said when he was asked if he knew what he was being tried for at Nuremburg. He said, "yes, because we lost the war."

I also believe that the numbers of dead were exaggerated. I am aware that this view leaves me open to being labelled anti-semitic, which i think is a sad state of affairs.

I cant understand why the holocaust is the only event in history that we are encouraged not to question. That in itself creates more questions in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 11:01 PM
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For those who believe the numbers of jews killed in concentration camps I pose this question:

Who, and why, would exaggerate those numbers? What would the purpose be, and who would've done it?

Regards-
Aimless



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 11:17 PM
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I think its such a shame that a people who have suffered so much attrocity in their own lives can be so ignorant when it comes to their taking the lives of other innocent children, women, men. You would think no matter how many millions that died during WWII that they would never have the ability to do that to someone else.

I think this conference is nothing more then a retaliation on Israel for all the harm they have attempted to bring onto Islamic people through vilification in order to justify Palestinian murders. Nothing more and nothing less. Its just revenge. Nothing could be established from such a conference legally or educationally , so what other point would it accomplish other then to get a rise from Israel.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 11:52 PM
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I was under the impression that jews were not the only people sent to the camps.

Does any one know how many non-jews were killed, and if so what ethnic, religous, or political group they belonged?

[edit on 11-12-2006 by jaydelay]



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 12:05 AM
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I think this conference is nothing more then a retaliation on Israel for all the harm they have attempted to bring onto Islamic people through vilification in order to justify Palestinian murders.


You know it's true. You really do learn something new every day. For example I had no idea that the above statement was true. What a crazy world. Yet, I am still anxious to learn even more.

How 'bout it pieman? Would you care to give me few examples of how Israel has harmed the Islamic people through vilification?

Whatever they did, they must have done a great job, because even the Arab nations themselves have killed the Palestinians. Heck, they did SUCH a good job of justifying violence against Palestinians that even the Palestinians themselves can't stop killing Palestinians!

Now THAT'S what I call vilification!



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by jaydelay
I was under the impression that jews were not the only people sent to the camps.

Does any one know how many non-jews were killed, and if so what ethnic, religous, or political group they belonged?

[edit on 11-12-2006 by jaydelay]


I don't know the numbers, but among the other groups
were Greeks, Gays and Gypsies.

I'm sure there are more, but I don't know who they were.



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 12:27 AM
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Depending on who you talk to, the number of gypsies exterminated varies between a quarter-million and more than a million.

Even if 'only' a quarter-million were killed, they suffered a greater tragedy than any other target, proportionately. In other words, if a quarter-million were killed (the low estimate), they still lost a higher percentage of their total world population than any of the other targetted groups, nevermind if a million were killed...

It's particularly hard to get accurate figures because of the nature of the society. There were far more illiterate and nomadic gypsies than Jews, and so the Jews had better records.

They also suffered the most in the lead-up to the Holocaust, incarceration, sterilization, exile, and more. They were a prime target (along with blacks) for budding lunatics fueled with notions of racial purity.

Nasty business, that...



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by Shaktimaan


How 'bout it pieman? Would you care to give me few examples of how Israel has harmed the Islamic people through vilification?



Hey Shaktimaan...you are a wise man...why not go watch a Golan-Globus production and come back and tell me bout it. Also before the internet came along and Israel lost control of the media within Israel, tell me about all the Beit Hannouns, Qanas, and families on beaches that got killed that we knew about before all this happened. All I remember were pictures of dead Jewish people getting loaded into ambulances and headlines of Palestinians Bombing Jews. You even watch a movie from 1979 HG Wells "Time After Time" and watch the newscast in the background and it shows Palestinian terrorists. Even the Israeli Ambassador to the UN Dan Gillerman said "Not all Muslims are terrorist but mostly all terrorists are muslim". 9-11 made Natanyahoo cream his pants when he practically gushed "This is good for Israel" , and even the dancing Mossad agents in New Jersey were happy all the hard work was finally paying off after all the years of saying Islam was evil , they were saying "See! They are going to get you too! They are your enemies too!"

Israel has alway been hard at work trying to vilify the muslims. Threats of dhimmisim, forced conversions all are Israeli propaganda aimed at trying to scare the Americans to get and stay behind Israels iron fist in the Middle East. If America has nothing to fear then what good will Israel be? They have no other use! No more cold war. They don't have oil. They don't have any products to trade with us other then Fruit. We have all the modern spy sattelites we need and the Mossad is outdated. They leech trillions of dollars from our treasury.

Face it...Arabs and Muslims are outnumbering Jews in pracically ever country due to migration. It is not in the Israeli interest that they lose political clout in those countries and to risk losing aid. Organizations like CRIF in france will have a tough time, AIPAC in the USA will have a tough time with competitive political groups with lots of money and potential political voter pressure. Israel and its foreign ministry is hard at work attempting to head them off at the pass.

Have a look at sites like MEMRI or CAMERA and see if they paint any Islamic Palestinians that are attempting to fight off the Israeli occupation in any light other then a negative one, as murderers and terrorists, then have a look at those same sites in regards to Stern/Hagganah and see if they don't place them in a different light as that of a hero for fighting off the British occupation, instead of their true face as that of a terrorist. (Since that is what someone who fights an occupation should be after all, no?)

But hey you are after all Pro-Palestinian so you probably know all this. Why would you need me to tell you.



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 08:21 AM
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I have been to Auschwitz some years ago. And believe me when I say its a scary place and that indeed alot of people died there. Just entering the place gives you a chilling feeling. How many I'm not sure about. But just the amount of old hair, teeths, cloth and other stuff they still have there sure shows that there has been a holocaust. Auschwitz was the worst, but its far from the only or largest concentration camp there was. And it was not just jews that died there. Alot of other ethic groups also did. like gypsys, russian's, disable germans as part of the german racial hygiene program and also homosexual and chriminal germans.

I'm fine with the fact that someone is qustioning history. But in this case I'm sure, if they got their minds with them to the meeting, that they will find that there indeed where murded as many as is told, at the holocaust. ( We will newer know the real number, but it was in the millions
)



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 08:50 AM
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im amazed with people here. i dont mean those who asking the validity of the holocaust of the jews because i think its ridiculous even to discuss it. but those people that question the numbers.
i dont have a problam with people that want to know the truth and trying to figure out the true number of jews that was murdered in the holocaust but i see here many people who "think" that the numbers are false...

did you ever considered the numerous researches already been done on this subject?!
did you think that people just sprout figures out of thin air?!
why do you question the numbers? did it just "feel wrong"? do you have some researches that confirms your numbers?!
im really trying to understand...

some figures for you, complete with bibliography:

www.holocaust-history.org...

[edit on 12-12-2006 by DeMitsuko]



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by DeMitsuko
im amazed with people here. i dont mean those who asking the validity of the holocaust of the jews because i think its ridiculous even to discuss it. but those people that question the numbers.
i dont have a problam with people that want to know the truth and trying to figure out the true number of jews that was murdered in the holocaust but i see here many people who "think" that the numbers are false...


Concur with that. Besides, it's irrelevant how many people died. It is known and researched that millions of people, primarily Jews were murdered in concentration camps.

Anyhow, I don't really mind anyone discussing it.. just don't see the purpose of it... you could also visit Europe and confront reality.



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Mdv2
Concur with that. Besides, it's irrelevant how many people died. It is known and researched that millions of people, primarily Jews were murdered in concentration camps.

Anyhow, I don't really mind anyone discussing it.. just don't see the purpose of it... you could also visit Europe and confront reality.


i think its important that people stick with the true numbers and not try to downsize the event like some nations are doing... *cough* iran *cough*

i also dont mind people discussing it but i cant accept people that saying the numbers are wrong like they have a clue.
if anyone feels the numbers are wrong just read the endless papers that support the 6 million number...

[edit on 12-12-2006 by DeMitsuko]



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by DeMitsuko
i think its important that people stick with the true numbers and not try to downsize the event like some nations are doing... *cough* iran *cough*
[edit on 12-12-2006 by DeMitsuko]


The whole point of the discussion is that no one knows what the true numbers are, so how can we stick with them?



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 09:52 AM
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despite cliams made in this thread , "top scholars " are not going to iran to discuss this issue .

it is a sychophantic meeting of charlatans and revisionts idiots who will generate the conclusion Mr Ahmadinejad wants to hear .

as reported in yesterdays London Times Khaled Kasab Mahameed is not wecome in terhan

go figure



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