Putin does it again!!! (poisoned spy)

It is worth noting that there have only been two known incidents of terrorist's using radioactive material. Both were by the Chechens:

Radioactive mine
The only two known incidents that could be classed as radiological terrorism have occurred in Russia. In 1995 Chechen rebels buried a caesium-137 source in Izmailovsky Park in Moscow, and in 1998 a container of radioactive materials attached to a mine was found by a railway line near Argun in Chechnya.

One brighter spot is that there has been a fall in smuggling incidents involving plutonium and uranium, which could be used to make nuclear bombs. In 1992, 44 such incidents were recorded. By last year the figure had fallen to three, possibly because the nuclear industry has become more vigilant.

The increase in the number of confirmed incidents of theft and smuggling of radioactive material might be due, at least in part, to better monitoring. Nevertheless, powerful voices continue to warn of the threat of a dirty bomb attack.

In 2003, Eliza Manningham-Buller, director-general of the UK's counter-intelligence agency MI5, said a crude attack against a major western city was "only a matter of time".

New Scientist Story

Did Aum Shinrikyo use radioactive substances in attacks in Japan. I am not an expert in biological and chemical agents, but isn't sarin radioactive as well?

But yes- the Chechens have been known to have access to dirty stuff like polonium. Actually if they have anything useful in that respect, they probably got it from Russia, which has an abundance of it. Some people said the use of polonium is a clear indication of involvement of Russian government. Well in Russia one could get their hands on stuff even more entertaining than polonium without any government involvement. A few abandoned labs and bases had much of their "arsenal" left there- if you want to risk your life venturing out there. However if you find any of that stuff, and risk handling it- you will probably die in the process- so it acts as a natural security system.

And Litvenenko was involved with Chechen rebel leaders on a relatively high level, since most of them are hiding out in UK now. He is the main advocate of the theory that it was FSB not the Chechens that blew up apartment buildings in Russia prior to Second Chechen War. He also defended Chechen separatists on several occasions.

A bit of shameful advertising, but check out my new thread specifically about him being a terrorist:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Seems like a special Spetsnaz unit called Department V could have provided polonium to kill Alexander Litvinenko...



Vympel Shoulder Patch

Well I didnt find time to read all the posts but I am sure the west will be up again with their cold-war steriotypes....I pity them for their ignorance guided by their so called "FREE " media ....they are poor fellows of "Totalitarian " "Authorative " rule of their "free" media ...their media concentrates on viewing how bad other countries are so that people may forget their internal problems ....

Now lets come to the point I dont think that Putin or the Kremlin was in any way involved in this murder here runs my reasons

1 Mr Litvinenko was in Political Assylum in Britain ...he was in a wanted list in Russia for doing illegal things back home ....when he was murdered Russia and Britain was in the verge of signing a treaty that will enable the both to exchange Criminals .....so it woild have been a foolish thing for Kremlin to malign its reputation knowing well the the first victim of suspect after the murder will be the Kremlin itself

2 Mr Litvinenko was a failure in his anti Kremlin propaganda ...Just answer me honestly how many of you knew of him before the murder took place ?....so Mr Lit ranked very low in Kremlins enemy list(if any ) ...Prehaps people who employed Mr Lit Thought that he can do little good to malign Kremlin's reputation alive ....so let him die ...and infact Mr Lit did accomplish his goal after getting killed ....Kremlin was badly Criticised ....
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

3 Mr LIT WAS NOT An INTERNATIONAL SPY as the western media propagated ...he worked in the domestic department of KGB and his work was rather a clark's work

4 JUST ANSWER ME THIS QUESTION : WHY POLONIUM?
Polonium is a very bad poison to kill some one because
1 The killer himself is at risk of Radiation poisiong
2 Polonium leaves traces of radiation everywhere it is taken to (as it happened in this case)only a foolish will like to leave the evidances of his crimes
3 there are many cardio toxins available to the secret services that can kill a person in a matter of 1 or 2 days (so that the Criminal may escape) that dont leave any traces as Polonium does

I think Polonium was used so that it can be traced back to Russia there by diverting people's attention to the Kremlin....Else only an Idiot will use Polonium to kill someone





[edit on 21-12-2006 by prelude]

Originally posted by prelude
1 Mr Litvinenko was in Political Assylum in Britain ...he was in a wanted list in Russia for doing illegal things back home ....when he was murdered Russia and Britain was in the verge of signing a treaty that will enable the both to exchange Criminals .....so it woild have been a foolish thing for Kremlin to malign its reputation knowing well the the first victim of suspect after the murder will be the Kremlin itself

This is true, and on the surface it seems to indicate that Lit was headed back to Russia with London's blessings. But that wasn't the case here. Lit was not considered a "criminal" by Britian or the West. As you said, he was in political asylum -- but only until October of this year, when he became a naturalized British citizen. London was in no way going to send him back as a "criminal."

2 Mr Litvinenko was a failure in his anti Kremlin propaganda ...Just answer me honestly how many of you knew of him before the murder took place ?....so Mr Lit ranked very low in Kremlins enemy list(if any ) ...Prehaps people who employed Mr Lit Thought that he can do little good to malign Kremlin's reputation alive ....so let him die ...and infact Mr Lit did accomplish his goal after getting killed ....Kremlin was badly Criticised ....
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

Interesting theory. But I'm not buying that Litvinenko staged his own death to further "criticism" of Putin's administration. That's a little extreme.
Remember, Litvinenko has accused the FSB of orchestrating terrorist attacks against its own citizens to justify a war in Chechnya (sounds like similar allegations against Bush and 9/11). Plus, he accused the Italian PM of being a Russian spy. These are explosive revelations, if true, and I doubt very much that the FSB -- and especially its puppet master Putin -- would just turn the other cheek from Lit. They could not -- with any continuing credibility -- let this man live; a point needed to be made, a message sent to all future Putin antagonists.

And that message was loud, clear and messy.

3 Mr LIT WAS NOT An INTERNATIONAL SPY as the western media propagated ...he worked in the domestic department of KGB and his work was rather a clark's work.

Yes, and more importantly no. He was not a "spy" in the traditional sense. But he wasn't filing papers, by any means.

Litvinenko became an agent of the KGB in 1986. In 1988, he was officially transferred to the Third Chief Directorate of the KGB (Military Counter Intelligence). In 1988, after studying for a year at the Novosibirsk Military Counter Intelligence School, he became an operational officer and served in KGB military counterintelligence until 1991.

In 1991, he was promoted to the Central Staff of the MB-FSK-FSB of Russia, specialising in counter-terrorist activities and infiltration of organized crime. He was awarded the title of "MUR veteran" for operations conducted with the Moscow criminal investigation department (MUR). Litvinenko also saw active military service in many of the so-called "hot spots" of the former USSR and Russia. In 1997, he was again promoted, this time to the Department for the Analysis of Criminal Organizations of the FSB, with the title of senior operational officer and deputy head of the Seventh Section. He was in charge of the protection of Boris Berezovsky, when Berezovsky held a government position. [5] Contrary to many news reports, Litvinenko was never a 'spy' and did not deal with secrets beyond information on operations against organized criminal groups, his wife said

4 JUST ANSWER ME THIS QUESTION : WHY POLONIUM?
Polonium is a very bad poison to kill some one because
1 The killer himself is at risk of Radiation poisiong
2 Polonium leaves traces of radiation everywhere it is taken to (as it happened in this case)only a foolish will like to leave the evidances of his crimes
3 there are many cardio toxins available to the secret services that can kill a person in a matter of 1 or 2 days (so that the Criminal may escape) that dont leave any traces as Polonium does

True. But more silent, untracable killers would then leave many questions as to who was behind his killing. Polonium, and the messy trail back to Russia, leaves no doubt as to who ordered his death. And that's the point. Putin wanted to stand on the stage for this murder -- he wanted to be implicated in Litvinenko's death without having to publically admit it.







[edit on 21-12-2006 by prelude]

Mario Scaramella was [url=http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2749212]arrested in Naples[/url today. Prosecutors have accused him of arms trafficking.

Earlier this month his computers were confiscated for analysis.

This may be just retribution for his investigation in conjunction Mitrokhin commission, or they could have found evidence of arms trafficking.

We will have to keep an eye on this.

Originally posted by behindthescenes


This is true, and on the surface it seems to indicate that Lit was headed back to Russia with London's blessings. But that wasn't the case here. Lit was not considered a "criminal" by Britian or the West. As you said, he was in political asylum -- but only until October of this year, when he became a naturalized British citizen. London was in no way going to send him back as a "criminal."

Your point has got a good weight and I dont want to argue with you regarding this point (without knowing the details of the treaty)but just .some assumptions ...........we dont know about the contents of the extradiction treaty ...there are many International extradiction treaties that allow foreign nationals to be extradicted to the country they are wanted in ...the latest being signed between India and UAE.

Interesting theory. But I'm not buying that Litvinenko staged his own death to further "criticism" of Putin's administration. That's a little extreme.

Ya I agree with you that's a bit extrime specially for a money hungry guy like Mr Lit

Yes, and more importantly no. He was not a "spy" in the traditional sense. But he wasn't filing papers, by any means.

But by all their means western media tried thir best to prove that he WAS a SPY in traditional sense ....another anti Russian propaganda /Steriotype

-- let this man live; a point needed to be made, a message sent to all future Putin antagonists.

And that message was loud, clear and messy.

I am sorry to say that such an assumption proves the fact that you are quite ignorant about the situation in Russia just like most of the western people I have spoken to ..... most of your media sources have brainwashed you all to believe in the steriotypes like "in Russia there is no freedom of press "blah blah....
I am sorry to state that where knowledge is bliss many a times ignorance is taken to be a sign of profundity.

Any one who reads Russian News papers are quite aware of the fact that that Mr Putin is more criticized in home than abroad ....and the number of such Anti-Putin Journalists are endless in Russia...and same abroad....so its practically not possible to stop people from criticizing him...and Putin Knowns the fact very well.

Any attempt to stop Putin Antagonists ay any one (Putin himself or someone else )will acctually serve a Strong Impulse for people looking for cheap and quick popularity to criticize him more and more....and that exactly has been the case here.
(Now plz dont talk about the fate of Anna ...very few people in Russia knew about her in Russia and abroad..and after her death Anti Putin Journalists have acctually risen in Russian Press to gain cheap popularity)

True. But more silent, untracable killers would then leave many questions as to who was behind his killing. Polonium, and the messy trail back to Russia, leaves no doubt as to who ordered his death. And that's the point. Putin wanted to stand on the stage for this murder -- he wanted to be implicated in Litvinenko's death without having to publically admit it.

Thats a verrrrry good theme for the next 007 movie....
but its a real world..... I assume Putin has a bit more grey matter than you and me ...and he knows very well that his rule is not going to last for ever ..... and in future when he is no more in power he might face bad days....

The peoblem is with the western attitude of double standards ....where uncivilized countries like Saudi Arabia, Israiel and Pakistan are considered to be "good" "friendly" states just because they prefer to play second fiddle to the West (more correctly USA )
while any country who objects to do that and looks after their own interests(in this case Russia) has to be a "BAD" State in all respects ...there cant be anything grossly good in those states .

So according to those Hypocits Russia was "good" in the 90s when Oligarths backed by the West were looting her national wealth, Prestige and backbone ...but now when someone (Read Mr Putin)is trying to make Russia think about her own interests rather than looking at the interests of Western Europe(as it had been doing in the 90s )...the man is a Criminal.

I myself dont support most of the domestic policies of Mr Putin....but believe me Putin has done a miracle to Russia ....no Honest Russian can object to that ....ask the question to someone who has been to Russia both in the 90s and recently ...and you will know the truth

I beg my pardon if I have been rude to you in any way ...That wasnt my intension.

They say they have identified the man who poisoned Litvinenko. He was introduced as "Vladislav" and he also made Litvinenko a cup of tea. He was on the same plane as Kovtun.

8:30 Tonight. BBC1 'How to Poison a Spy' A report on the poisoning of ex-KGB spy Alexander Litvienko, following the trail of Radioactive Polonium 210 leading to former spies and an Italian buisnessman.

Should be interesting.

JUST BREAKING

It has jsut been established that the poisoned spy was poisoned via his cup of tea, they say the posion was in the tea pot. This was at the milleniam hotel in London,

news.sky.com...

[edit on 26-1-2007 by asala]

There's one thing I really don't understand. How could a man like Litvinenko accept a cup of tea given to him by "a stranger"...

Needless to say nothing is going to happen IF this assassin is found. He'll be found guilty in Russia and then assassinated by Putin and the Russian Govt. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other govt's involved.

Originally posted by Hellmutt
There's one thing I really don't understand. How could a man like Litvinenko accept a cup of tea given to him by "a stranger"...

Maybe it wasn't a stranger.

Originally posted by endgame2
Needless to say nothing is going to happen IF this assassin is found. He'll be found guilty in Russia and then assassinated by Putin and the Russian Govt. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other govt's involved.

First, why would Russia put him on trial? The assassination didn't take place in Russia, and Russia has absolutely no jurisdiction in this case. If anything, Britain will demand to try the assassin.

Second, assuming Russian government ordered the murder, why would they convict their own guy? Litvinenko was a traitor for Russia, and a wanted criminal. If Russian agents killed him, they did their job to according to plan, and they didn't break any Russian laws.

If indeed it is traced to Russia, I am more than sure thats where the trail for the investigators is going to end. If it was an FSB/GRU agent, they will be protected by the Federal Government and never handed over, even if their identity is discovered (but they will not be killed). If the assassin wasn't working for the government, why would Russia want a hand in this?


But if you look at the facts- there is still nothing linking Litvinenko's death to Russia, besides his old agency ties. While in UK he has been involved with many international groups and individuals of questionable trust, and could have made enemies anywhere. Everything else is just speculation.

[edit on 26-1-2007 by maloy]

The spetsnaz unit Vityaz used a photo of Litvinenko for target practices. This doesn't prove that Vityaz killed Litvinenko obviously, but it does prove that Litvinenko was more than just a "nobody". The video showing Litvinenko's photo on target posters has now been removed from the Vityaz training centre's website, but it should still be available in Google's cache.




Vityaz (Knights)


Edited to add a link to Times Online. Here:
Russian special forces used image of Litvinenko for target practice

[edit on 2007/1/30 by Hellmutt]

Yuri Maltsev, former senior advisor to Mikhail Gorbachev spilled the beans: "Russia has become the criminal capital of the world. In Russia today, the organized Mafia and the government are one and the same thing. They're two hands of the same ruling elite." This state of affairs began with the founding of the Soviet State. "The Soviet state security apparatus was essentially staffed by criminals collected from Russian prisons . . . In short, you had a criminal state using criminals to enforce what it called the law."

Has anyone pointed out an older incident about the use of an ricin-umbrella? My dad told me about this. I'm Bulgarian, like this guy here. He was against the Bulgarian communists and the KGB. Here is the Wikipedia link here

Later, he told his doctor that a man stabbed him with an umbrella in the leg.

Originally posted by Qwazzy

Has anyone pointed out an older incident about the use of an ricin-umbrella?

You may find these two links interesting:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.pbs.org...

Here is a link to the video where they use Litvinenko for target practice:

www.dagbladet.no...

The site is in Norwegian, but I guess you'll figure out how to play the video anyway. The video itself is in Russian. You'll notice Litvinenko in the video. There's no doubt that it's him.

Putin at it again?

BBC News
Tuesday, 6 March 2007

Russia's Ekho Moskvy radio said doctors had confirmed that the women, a mother and daughter aged 42 and 26, had been poisoned with highly toxic thallium.

Their condition is described as "fairly serious". They were staying at a Moscow hotel and fell ill on 24 February, but the circumstances are not yet clear.