I find interesting the question of Saddam Hussien's influence regarding his execution as possibly being viewed as martyrdom by some compared to continued imprisonment. I believe there were similar questions over the Nazi's at the end of WWII. If Hitler were to remain alive would he serve as a powerful rally cry for those who supported him or would any excution be considered martyrdom and elevate him to new heights among any remaining, and possible future followers.

While I understand it was the British of the time who were in favour of immediate hanging as opposed to the full trial which was favoured by the U.S. a (much later) quote of Winston Churchill's was;

Winston Churchill

Grass does not grow on the gallows.

There is the risk that the popularity which 'premature' death sometimes brings (look at the popularity/iconic status of Guevara, Elvis, Hendrix and more recently Cobain) could arise. I don't think there is the same possibility of Saddam becoming the icon that, for example, some feared Hitler might become (not offering any comparison of the two here other than the situation). It is an interesting point and definately worth taking into consideration, but I see the situation at present being one of the insurgents focusing on the presence of western forces (and a percieved puppet government) as the immediate reason for resentment rather than the imprisonment or execution of Saddam who was, as others have pointed out already, a leader initially heavily favoured and supported by the West.

Then again that's not to say there will be no use of this in any possible way to motivate any who might be in support of the insurgents. As the saying goes 'any port in a storm' just that I wonder how much potential the idea genuinely has.

Jak



[edit on 5/11/06 by JAK]

Originally posted by Gear
No-one has even contemplated 'busting' him out thus far. Even if he was, would it really be so bad? He would not be able to take power again.

Sure he would be able to take power again... just not legally. He could take over where Osama left off.

It will make him a martyr and its the easy way out for him.

If it was up to me, i would let him rot in jail, death is what he wanted. Now he will become a martyr to his supporters and i hope Iraq doesn't explode in chaos.

Originally posted by annestacey

Originally posted by Gear
No-one has even contemplated 'busting' him out thus far. Even if he was, would it really be so bad? He would not be able to take power again.

Sure he would be able to take power again... just not legally. He could take over where Osama left off.

I'm sorry, but that has to take the prize for the funniest comment so far on this topic

Was it supposed to be sarcasm?

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
LOL you just got that edit in before i quoted you my furry little friend.

I had just been on Google news like 1 minute before and was reading an article that was talking about his court case to get himself a firing squad instead of the gallows, and the headline was similiar to yours. I said wait its sunday morning and its Afternoon in Iraq..lemme double check...sure enough the headlines were there. I just missed by 2mins LOL


Pie

Originally posted by xpert11
Gear how do you know that an insurgent group isnt contemplating busting Saddam out of jail ?

I don't. I said they haven't tried thus far. If he was to be kept in jail for the remainder of his natural life, who is to say that they would try to bust him out?
Both our arguments are only "what if" scenarios.

Tell me this, would you kill a wild animal that is kept in a zoo because it might break loose and kill a human? Surely you would only tighten the security.

Originally posted by xpert11
There is also the possibility that an insurgent group could attepted an assassination or try to smuggle Saddam into another countrie.

Yeah, we had better kill him. God forbid he gets assassinated!

Originally posted by xpert11
Now if Saddam was to be located in a jail outside of Iraq it would a whole differnt ball game...

There's something we both agree on.

Why are people scared he will become a matyr?

The people that would see him in that light are ignorant to the way he has treated a country he was meant to be leading forward, not raping. Only by showing people the full unadulterated truth will they understand the reason for his death. We need to educate those who would support him, not hide him in a cell somwhere hoping his followers will forget about him.

I think he should have been stoned by his former citizens, not hung by the 'invaders', because this would send a stronger message from the Iraqi people to Saddams followers.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned Hitler, and I just want to mention that the reason Churchill wanted him executed without trial was because of he way he had used courtrooms to his advantage on his path to High Chancellor. In Saddams trial he showed himself to be a big kid, throwing his toys around and only attempting to disrupt the proceedings. People who support Saddam would love a proper role model.

I don't think we should have gone in and now we seem to be Macbeth stuck between going all the way and turning back. We won't turn back, we'll do what Saddam should have been doing, we'll be leading the Iraqi people to a more properous future.

This is an Election stunt choreographed by the White House. The timing of the judgement gives it away. This is a last ditch effort to win public opinion in favor of the George 'Moron' Bush. If we fall for this new 'diversion tactic' we are only fooling ourselves.
Lets discount this judgement as an election stunt and boomerang his 'clever' tactic

YAWN!!!....STRETCH...SLURP COFFEE....This is news? Like he was running the risk of aquittal?

The only real news in this should be how the administration arranged the timing of this thinking it might give them a bump up going into the election.

Trouble is....its still about Iraq and the only ones still supporting the war besides some Republicans is Joe Liberman.

Originally posted by grover
The only real news in this should be how the administration arranged the timing of this thinking it might give them a bump up going into the election.

Saddam was the one holding things up. So how could the administration have arranged it?

Much like we would have done 2000 years ago, we should leave his body hanging and broadcast it for 3 weeks constantly on every channel in Iraq... How else are w e to show the citizens that the tyrrant king is dead, as well as show the sectarians that its only a matter of time before any refusal to accept our puppet government will result in death...

Thats one of the things thats wrong with this war is that too many people whine about us acting like its WAR. You can't negotiate without extreme prejudice in a situation where the enemy has a fanatical stance. If you think you can, you are deluded.

They say you can change someones mind easily, but and ideal is worth dying for. Well then let them. They consider it such an honor to die for their beliefs, accomodate them!

2 cants

Hanging/Elections. What a great combination.

Another show for the world to see!

When he gassed his people it was an act of war, so i guess we should be seeing more hagings in the West.

If he'd been smart he should have arranged for a parcel of land in Paraguay, but he wasnt smart like our Bush.

Shhhhhh dg, don't tell everyone where the Bush bolthole is

Originally posted by MasterJedi
Much like we would have done 2000 years ago, we should leave his body hanging and broadcast it for 3 weeks constantly on every channel in Iraq... How else are w e to show the citizens that the tyrrant king is dead, as well as show the sectarians that its only a matter of time before any refusal to accept our puppet government will result in death... Thats one of the things thats wrong with this war is that too many people whine about us acting like its WAR. You can't negotiate without extreme prejudice in a situation where the enemy has a fanatical stance. If you think you can, you are deluded.

They say you can change someones mind easily, but and ideal is worth dying for. Well then let them. They consider it such an honor to die for their beliefs, accomodate them!

Extereme prejudice is wrong whatever, if your fighting a war based on extreme prejudice your just a Nazi. You can negotiate with facts, promises and education. People are fanatical about creationism but we aren't going to bully them into changing. People who don't agree with the law should be treated as such, but not with malice or we are reducing ourselves to their level.

Accomadate them blowing themselves up!?! I wouldn't give you one cent for that idea, let alone two. These people need help, after watching a programe on palestine and isreal you can see the problem of fanaticism isn't contained to Iraq. In palestine they have posters advertising the feats of famous martyrs. If we can't educate these people (all wannabe martyrs) that killing themselves in a way to kill other people is wrong maybe we deserve to be blown up.

Saddam was condemned to death before there was even a trial.

Think about it.
If the court rules that he is innocent, then it causes trouble for America being in Iraq, they will have no more excuses to be in Iraq if Saddam is found innocent...he must be found guilty and hang.
Although the very presence of America in Iraq is interesting, apart from Saddam.
I remember clearly that Bush told everyone, virutally swearing up and down, that America must go to Iraq because they had weapons of mass distruction. So why did they stay, and continue to linger.
The people in Iraq continue to kill American troops, because they werent invited to begin with.

Just turn the story around, and imagine it the other way around.

So, point is...who thought he would have a fair trial? And who can judge any leader of any country?
Arent all leaders across the globe responsible for great atrocities.

This is all a game. The real saddam is going on vacation with Elvis.
Say hello to the N.W.O. puppet governments.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by BitRaiser
How does killing a captive, defanged, former political leader help the situation?

It's justice. He deserves death. The people want him put to death for his crimes against them. Also, his death serves as a reminder to would-be tyrants that in the end they are caught and executed.

It's justice. It's just that simple.

BBC radio anounces that Iraqi civilians are out celebrating the verdict and burning Saddam pictures in the streets ,

what happened to the claims , made loud and often here that iraqis wanted him back ?

Saddam isn't dead yet. There is an automatic appeals process. From what I read this nine judge panel has no time limit on how long they have to hear his appeal. Wouldn't suprise me if Saddam dies of old age while on appeal. With the number of people associated with Saddam's trial being killed or their families kidnapped, can you even find nine judges?

[edit on 5-11-2006 by JIMC5499]

crimes against humanity? lets see here, that sounds kind of familiar, kind of like a war that was based on lies, a war that has also been deemed a crime against humanity, an act of treason, I wonder who else should be hanged? yea..I wonder...

They should do everything to him that he ordered done to others, then be left alive to rot in prison.