Jesus DID say he was God

I don't believe Jesus is the one and only God as I believe in God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. Confusing I know....

But you do believe that they are all one in the same God right, somehow seperate but all one divine being.

Exactly, I didn't explain myself very well. I went back and reworded my post.

And isn't that exactly what your doing?

Gear are you too gonna deny the deity of Christ?

Come on man, even the earliest Christian recognized who he was. The 12 apostles, paul, you name it. Christ was worshipped as God as early as the First century.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

I wrote:

Originally posted by Gear

Originally posted by thehumbleone
SpeakerofTruth, i am having a hard time trying to understand what you believe,
you post verses out of the gospel of John that fit what you want to believe and seem to ignore all the other stuff.

And isn't that exactly what your doing?

You replied with:

Originally posted by thehumbleone

And isn't that exactly what your doing?

Gear are you too gonna deny the deity of Christ?
...

What does my own beliefs of Christ have to do anything? It is not an issue.
You failed to address the question I asked.
So I will answer it for you.

Yes. Why? Because it is subject to everyone's own interpretation.
There are 'facts' in the Bible that I know, but I don't go bringing it up, and telling everyone else that they are wrong. Simply because it is either up to them to do their own research, or their own interpretation.

this is for any of you people who still want to say that Jesus is not God
i urge you to read the following link and learn the truth.

www.jesusplusnothing.com...

[edit on 4-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

Saying Jesus did or did not say he was god is like saying Sherlock Holmes did or did not say he was the Greatest Detective.

Both are articles of fiction. One fiction people are willing to kill over and the other not so much. So flocks of people with hate in there hearts come to argue about the height of a fictional character.

I am very disappointed that ATS/BTS is just a site for religious scoundrels to argue Christian platitutes. The Deny Ignorance motto is undeserved.

I hereby propose that the Deny Ignorance motto be withdrawn.

Columbus

Originally posted by Columbus
Saying Jesus did or did not say he was god is like saying Sherlock Holmes did or did not say he was the Greatest Detective.

Both are articles of fiction. One fiction people are willing to kill over and the other not so much. So flocks of people with hate in there hearts come to argue about the height of a fictional character.

I am very disappointed that ATS/BTS is just a site for religious scoundrels to argue Christian platitutes. The Deny Ignorance motto is undeserved.

I hereby propose that the Deny Ignorance motto be withdrawn.

Columbus

I have to say that your remarks were very uncalled for. You do realize that this is a Faith and Spirituality forum right? That's what people usually do in a Faith and Spirituality forum, talk about their beliefs. While I may not agree with everyone here, they do not deserve this type of talk, and most certainly ATS and BTS as a whole does not deserve what you said. This is an excellent place to learn and discuss just about anything, and if you wish to learn or discuss something that is not here, you can start a thread about it, right?

I'm not saying that I speak for everyone hear, but I do speak for me. You wish the Deny Ignorance motto to withdrawn, but here i am denying your ignorance to what ATS and BTS is. If you truly feel that all ATS and BTS is about is religious "scoundrels" arguing Christian platitudes which you misspelled by the way, then I highly suggest that you deny yourself ignorance by actually doing some research and reading the topics on ATS and BTS and realizing how completely incorrect your statement was (I myself actually read quite the variety of forums on ATS and BTS, so I do know what I'm talking about).

Sorry for the outburst everyone, but I just can't stand it when I see someone say things like that and it be the complete opposite of what is true. It's just terrible to see such a great place like ATS bashed on in the manner that it was.

Originally posted by 7Pan7cho7
I have to say that your remarks were very uncalled for...

I have to say that your remarks were very uncalled for. You do realize that this is a Faith and Spirituality forum right? That's what people usually do in a Faith and Spirituality forum, talk about their beliefs. While I may not agree with everyone here, they do not deserve this type of talk, and most certainly ATS and BTS as a whole does not deserve what you said. This is an excellent place to learn and discuss just about anything, and if you wish to learn or discuss something that is not here, you can start a thread about it, right?

I'm not saying that I speak for everyone hear, but I do speak for me. You wish the Deny Ignorance motto to withdrawn, but here i am denying your ignorance to what ATS and BTS is. If you truly feel that all ATS and BTS is about is religious "scoundrels" arguing Christian platitudes which you misspelled by the way, then I highly suggest that you deny yourself ignorance by actually doing some research and reading the topics on ATS and BTS and realizing how completely incorrect your statement was (I myself actually read quite the variety of forums on ATS and BTS, so I do know what I'm talking about).

Sorry for the outburst everyone, but I just can't stand it when I see someone say things like that and it be the complete opposite of what is true. It's just terrible to see such a great place like ATS bashed on in the manner that it was.

Pancho, i whole heartedly agree with you man.

I swear, you can't create one post without somebody throwing their dumb comments around.

whats even stupider is they click on a forum called faith and spirtuality, well what the heck did you think we were gonna be talking about, the weather!!??!

seriously though, if you're not smart enough to figure out what kind of discussions
will be going on in a forum called FAITH AND SPIRITUALITY you need to have your head examined. :bash: :bnghd:

[edit on 4-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

I have to say that your remarks were very uncalled for.

Just because you didn't call for it doesn't mean it is unwarranted. If police knock on your door you can't keep them out by telling them they're not invited in.

The only true way is love.

There are your words? Agape? Love a standard Christian codeword attack in disguise. I advise you to be careful in the use of such passionate words. Reasoned words are safer.

You do realize that this is a Faith and Spirituality forum right?

I understand that in this forum, ignorance is protected in violation of the Deny Ignorance Motto of ATS.

This is an excellent place to learn and discuss just about anything, and if you wish to learn or discuss something that is not here, you can start a thread about it, right?

It is very diffiuclt to learn with disinformation and distraction deliberately tolerated and protected here. I have made it clear that arguments over contradicory views in the bible are ignorant. Both views are equally false in that they don't apply to reality.

...I highly suggest that you deny yourself ignorance by actually doing some research and reading the topics on ATS and BTS and realizing how completely incorrect your statement was (I myself actually read quite the variety of forums on ATS and BTS, so I do know what I'm talking about).

I do also read quite a lot of threads on ATS and BTS, but don't comment unless I know something that has gone understated. What I've seen is that the Christian agenda runs roughshod over the idea of Denying Ignorance. A great proportion of threads are dedicated to Christian themes and non-Christians are unwelcome to state facts.

I am being discriminated against here.

I firmly believe in the ideal of Deny Ignorance. I see that is not what really goes on. People are free to assert falsehoods and support and prop eachother up, all while enjoying special protections from the very motto of this site.

Columbus

Yes, I am familiar with all the aformentioned verses.

Just like water can be in three states: Liquid, Ice and Gas..

God can 'be' the Trinity. Yes, Jesus WAS God. How?

God is 'infinite'. WE can't get our head around it so don't even try.

Jesus was his ultimate expressions of "Himself". God had to shed his 'infiniteness' to 'be' Jesus. I guess you could say Jesus was a chip off the infinite block.

Jesus, Holy Spirit and God himself. All one and the same.

Hope all that makes sense.


One of my favorite things that Jesus said while being questioned by Pilate right before his crucifixion:

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

And:

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Basically he told Pilate: I'm only standing here because "I" allowed it.


If I was Pilate I would have pooped my pants, snuck Jesus out the back door and ran for the hills!







[edit on 4-11-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Originally posted by Columbus
If police knock on your door you can't keep them out by telling them they're not invited in.

Yeah, you can. If they don't have a warrent. You do not have any warrent or power on ATS.

Originally posted by Columbus
Love a standard Christian codeword attack in disguise. I advise you to be careful in the use of such passionate words.

Don't be ignorant. Prove it.

Originally posted by Columbus
Reasoned words are safer.

Reasoned words? What are Reasoned words?

Originally posted by Columbus
It is very diffiuclt to learn with disinformation and distraction deliberately tolerated and protected here.

Then why are you on the religious forum? If you want to learn without disinformation and distraction, STOP READING THE RELIGIOUS FORUM AND GET OFF!

Originally posted by Columbus
I have made it clear that arguments over contradicory views in the bible are ignorant. Both views are equally false in that they don't apply to reality.

How have you made anything clear?! Where is your proof?

Originally posted by Columbus
What I've seen is that the Christian agenda runs roughshod over the idea of Denying Ignorance.

Christian this, Christian that. Get over yourself. What 'agenda' are you talking about?!

Originally posted by Columbus
A great proportion of threads are dedicated to Christian themes and non-Christians are unwelcome to state facts.

Exactly. They are dedicated to Christian themes! It would make no sence if I was to log onto an 'Abortion' forum and talk about 'Boats' Which is EXACTLY what you are doing.
No, non-christians are NOT unwelcome. I am not a christian. Look at this thread alone. I have posted in it. WHAT?! DID I DEFY YOUR LOGIC!?

Originally posted by Columbus
I am being discriminated against here.

For what you have being saying? I bloody well hope so. For being not being christian? No. You have been the one doing the attacking and discriminating.

Originally posted by Columbus
I firmly believe in the ideal of Deny Ignorance

Ha Ha Ha Ha!! Nice one! You have being feigning ignorance for the past hour!

Originally posted by Columbus
I see that is not what really goes on. People are free to assert falsehoods and support and prop eachother up, all while enjoying special protections from the very motto of this site.

No. As I said before, to Deny Ignorance is to do just that, Deny it. Get idea's and evidence to learn from it.
To deny Ignorance is NOT to attack people whom in your own eyes might seem ignorant.
If you bothered to read these threads as you claimed to do, you would see that the members do not 'support and prop eachother up.' The Ideas are attacked, with evidence. Not the members.

Hey guys, this Columbus guy obviously doesn't know how to read or he wouldnt have winded up in the Faith and spiritualtity forum.

it's Funny how his name is columbus because just like christopher columbus he ends up in the wrong place. dont you know the directions to forums trashing on christianity? or are you sailing drunk? :w:

Seriously though, get a life other than trashing on christians man.

Forget what he says, may the King of Kings show this fool the light.

Glory be to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen!!!!!



[edit on 4-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

Yeah, you can. If they don't have a warrent. You do not have any warrent or power on ATS.

This isn't your house, it's a virtual public space. I am free to be here, but just not in your opinion.

Don't be ignorant. Prove it.

Ignorance isn't the opposite of providing proof. Ignorance is denying proof. That's what you are doing.

Reasoned words? What are Reasoned words?

Words without passionate context, such as love, hate, anger, fear, etc. There are also a range of code words that have different meaning if you are in the church. Death for example is a word that has completely different meanings between us.

Then why are you on the religious forum? If you want to learn without disinformation and distraction, STOP READING THE RELIGIOUS FORUM AND GET OFF!

I am here to provide information, in spite of poor disinformation artists such as yourself. Your commandment to leave means nothing to me. You are the one supporting and protecting ignorance. You leave.

How have you made anything clear?! Where is your proof?

I have presented it even if it is ignored or I have been shouted off. Look at my past posts. You obviously haven't done that.

Christian this, Christian that. Get over yourself. What 'agenda' are you talking about?!

It's one thing to not talk about the agenda. It's another thing to deny it exists. That's just dishonest.

Exactly. They are dedicated to Christian themes! It would make no sence if I was to log onto an 'Abortion' forum and talk about 'Boats' Which is EXACTLY what you are doing.

I am not talking about anything other than Christianity. Again, you are being dishonest.

No, non-christians are NOT unwelcome.

Speak for yourself. You seem uninformed. If you knew more, you might get kicked out. So you have an incentive to remain ignorant in addition to your natural tendencies. That is what's really wrong here.

For what you have being saying? I bloody well hope so.

You support discrimination? Bigot.

You have been the one doing the attacking and discriminating.

I do not discriminate. I simply inform you and the moderators that this forum rules conflict with the theme of the board as a whole. It's a sewer down here and people like me are barred from trying to clean it up. Ignorant statements are bandied about without any checks and balances.

You have being feigning ignorance for the past hour!

Feign means pretent. I haven't pretended to be ignorant at all. I am telling you that ignorance is allowed to rot here and I am being attacked for trying to do something about it.

To deny Ignorance is NOT to attack people whom in your own eyes might seem ignorant.

If I tell you a fact and you deny that it's true, then you are ignorant. That is not an attack. It is another fact. Facts can hurt people.

The Ideas are attacked, with evidence.

No, they are not. The bible is not evidence. It is decisively hearsay.

Columbus

I am here to provide information, in spite of poor disinformation artists such as yourself. Your commandment to leave means nothing to me. You are the one supporting and protecting ignorance. You leave.

i suggest that you leave columbus, i think you are really starting to irritate everyone on this post, if you want to trash christianity why dont you create your own thread instead of creating foolish threads about greys.

[edit on 4-11-2006 by thehumbleone]

ROFL!!! GREYS are OFFTOPIC for sure more than anything I've said!

What have I said that irritates you? Did I lie? Did I insult you personally?

Columbus

Jesus was just a man like any other prophet.

God does not exist.

In Hebrew, if I understood it correctly, God means Justice. The Kingdom of God means a Kingdom of Justice, right here, right now.

Jesus was trying to bring radical egalitarianism.

The Gospels are mere narratives trying to heighten the glory of a Jewish peasant who was so important to many people..


Not trying to take away faith, but trying to enlighten people as to the historical Jesus.

Two things: 1. God cannot exist, 2. He doesnt care about us.

If he wanted us to believe in him so much. He wud show his face or provide some proof. Like maybe he could split the moon in half for a day. But nothing, except books filled with miracles and stories, but nothing ever happens in real life.

He would not have let Jesus die for our sins. Thats like punishing someone else for murder, rather than the murderer himself. Doesnt make sense.

He would not have let the Devil lose on us (assuming the devil exists).

So many proofs against God, but none in his favour. Not so almighty afterall.

Originally posted by half_minded
God does not exist.

Fortunately for God, his existance doesn't require your belief in him.

Besides that, even if you don't believe in God, Jesus did say that he was God, and that he had the power to forgive sins.