Saudi gets sentance of 90 lashes for breaking the law

The Woman broke the law by riding in a car with a stranger. She got punished for BREAKING THE LAW not for getting raped.

The men got punished for raping her.

So the government basically followed the law that have been there for a long time.

Both parties broke the law. Both got punished.

How many times I have seen the in the news that a burglar tried to break into a store. He slips or somehting and breaks his bone. He then sues the store owner for a lot of money and wins. Many similar cases to these in which the victim lost the case and ended paying the criminal. This is just in the US alone.

So why do people always criticize other countries and their laws when they have such stupid laws in their own. Fix your own backyard. Saudi is an independent country and has its own rules and laws which it expects people to follow.

I agree some of the laws are unfair to women and thats why I choose not to live there.

I dont condone rape. But the woman did not get punished for getting raped but for breaking the law. The laws are harsh in Saudi but still people break them.

In any case, no outsider has any right to judge their laws. I can predict the reaction of western people if a Saudi man tried to challenge theior laws. No one likes to be dictated or be interfered with.

When the time comes, if Saudis do get tired of these laws, they will end up changing it.

You have voted half_minded for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Exactly what I was going to say, but you've phrased it better. They're not living in the 'stone age' as people are saying, they're just living by their own rules and laws. Just because they're not the same as ours it doesn't make them primitive. Maybe the law that she wasn't supposed to be in the car with him was to protect her from something like this happening?

Thanks Malganis.

Hopefully people will understand that the whole world cannot run on same laws. Countries have totally different cultures and people grow up in different surroundings. The laws are in context with their culture. That is why people are free to live in whatever country they like.

Some of the laws are really not in agreement with my beliefs, esp. Saudi laws. But then, those laws do not matter to me because I do not live there. I would not like to interfere in their laws and try to change them because I do not want them doing the same to mine. Live and let live.

Half Minded is certainly a good name for you I think.

So tell me why we shouldnt have a law to say YOU can't go outside without an "bodyguard" because, hey, someone might try to rob you or worse.

What's good for the goose and all that I say.......

Originally posted by Dragon12
Half Minded is certainly a good name for you I think.

So tell me why we shouldnt have a law to say YOU can't go outside without an "bodyguard"

Well personal insults aside the day that there IS and he breaks it is when we,ll discuss that paricular problem.

Discussing the topic in question is probably your best move

Agent T, I am trying to make a point about the topic. The day that a law is passed that says you have broken the law because it was "possible" for someone to rape you, a law that makes the victim responsible rather rapist, is the day that I say the law has gone too far.

Tell me, do they give male victims of assault or robbery lashes because they were alone and so "made it possible" for them to be assulted or robbed, I dont think so. It is just a way of trying to control women.

I'm not an expert on Saudi law but do I take it that if the woman had not come to any harm she still would of been punished because she was in the company of men and not her husband.

She wasn't in the company of "men" that weren't her husband. She was in the company of one man that was not her husband. He was kidnapped with her by the same four men who followed them. The reason she got the lashings is because while reporting the kidnapping and gang-rape she also had to confess to breaking the law (being with her male friend who was not her husband). That's their laws, so whatever on that part.

The sick part is that it's a high probability that if she hadn't been breaking the law and had a witness and fellow victim who was a man with her, when she reported the gang-rape, she probably wouldn't even have been believed. So you can view her own personally lashings for breaking the law as her payment for being lucky enough to have some one who could back up her story.

Originally posted by Dragon12 Tell me, do they give male victims of assault or robbery lashes because they were alone and so "made it possible" for them to be assulted or robbed, I dont think so. It is just a way of trying to control women.

No they don,t. It is not against their law for men to be alone with men is why.

Whether you think it is twisted or unfair is un-related is probably good discussion for another thread I agree.

But the facts of this case is she broke their law and the same would have happened raped or not.

Her punishment was being alone with a guy.
Their punishment was for raping her.

I noticed changes in cultural attitude in only 5 yrs in Dubai. Saudi is a totally different culture again but Some of my associates work there frequently and they are beginning to see a change also... For the better in regards to western culture.

The news article did not say that she was gang raped because she was alone in a car with a male friend. It says that the assailants kidnapped them & took them to a remote area.
Who's to say that they would not have done the same thing if she was with her husband instead of a friend. To put any blame on the victim and make excuses for this barbaric & backward culture is reprehensible. These men deserve the death penalty for what they did. IMO

So the way you guys see it, is that's just the way they do things over there?
I guess slavery in the southern USA, back in the day is cool too? That was the way they done things then.
Child slavery today is OK too I guess, That's the way they do things.
There's a whole list of things, that's vile to most people in the world. It's OK though because, thats the way that they do things.
Nobody deserves to be raped!
Rape is wrong to the whole world, well except the Muslim world.

Originally posted by lorentrook
Rape is wrong to the whole world, well except the Muslim world.

Sorry, but this is not true.

Men beheaded for raping Saudi woman
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia - Two men were beheaded in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, on Wednesday for kidnapping and raping a woman, the Interior Ministry said.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Here is ANOTHER fact for you, had she only obey the law she wouldnt be getting 90 lashes.
Why are you people wigging when somebody states a fact?

The article said that she was Kidnapped by her assailants!! It does not say that they somehow knew that she was not married to the man she was with!! Do you think these animals would have really cared? You need to do a reality check my friend.
She could have followed the law to the letter and the rape could have still happened. If she had been with her husband when this attack occurred she would not be getting the lash its true, but you might want to to do some research to see how rape victime over there are treated even when they were obeying the law.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by Sparky63]
self edited to remove excessive quotes.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by Sparky63 Who's to say that they would not have done the same thing if she was with her husband instead of a friend...

My guess is they were aware of her not being married to the guy and risked exploiting the law,hoping she would not report it for fear of prosecution.

They would have probably received the same punishment. she would not have been punished.

You describe their culture as barbaric.Maybe..

Maybe they view Hedonism or ''swinging'' or even just the sexual promiscuity of the western world ''Barbaric'' too

Maybe they will actually have the last laugh when the western civillisation has died out because of ''AIDS'' or the next sexually transmitted disease to pop up.(tad off topic i know)

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

Correction:


'Had she only obeyed the law she wouldn't have recieved 90 lashes.'


Had that man been her farther, she still would have been raped.



If you admit you were wrong people would proberbly take you more seriously.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Really? Do we still conduct public executions? Witch Burnings? Crusades....erm forget that one...

sorry, but it was late, and i went to bed.

go here:
www.meta-religion.com...
www.beth-young.com...
www.icsahome.com...

these so-called "christians" have no trouble doing the things that they do, just as those so-called "muslims" have no trouble doing the things that they do.

on a side bit:

i separate this link from the others because the situation here is a bit different:
news.bbc.co.uk...

Excuse me while I stop laughing.

My comments are not about the woman who was raped. I pretty much agree with the majority here about that. My comments are not about the woman being punished for breaking a law that I find absurd.

What I would like to comment on is the blatent hypocracy here.

I have lost track of the number of posts about Iran and North Korea stating that a country should be free to do what it wants within it's own borders. Granted the majority of these posts have delt with the development of nuclear weapons, but how is this any different?

This whole thing took place inside Saudi Arabia, involved only citizens of Saudi Arabia and was decided by the government and the laws of Saudi Arabia. If a country has the right to do what it wants, then who are we to be concerned about this?

Originally posted by JIMC5499
If a country has the right to do what it wants, then who are we to be concerned about this?

Compasionate fellow Human Beings?

It doesnt cost anything to be concerned

Originally posted by Dragon12
Half Minded is certainly a good name for you I think.

So tell me why we shouldnt have a law to say YOU can't go outside without an "bodyguard" because, hey, someone might try to rob you or worse.

What's good for the goose and all that I say.......

Atleast I have half a mind which I use to the fullest unlike you.

I didnt say what laws to have or not. I was saying that, its their country and their laws. Who are you to criticize it? Change ur own country into a perfect world, then point fingers at others.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Compasionate fellow Human Beings?

It doesnt cost anything to be concerned

Point taken. I'll give you that one. As I said in my earlier post I was trying to leave the individuals out of this. My comment was not about this incident specifically but about the opinions of it.

The point I was trying to make is "Do we have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of a country?". If we do not have the right to pressure Iran and North Korea to give up their nuclear weapons program, then we do not have the right to pressure Saudi Arabia to change it's laws. People seem to think that they can pick and choose here.