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Saudi gets sentance of 90 lashes for breaking the law

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posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:47 PM
That's because there really is not mind-set to properly file this away, Val.

Her "breaking the law", as ridiculous as I think this law is, did not cause or warrant her rape. You would think being gang-raped would be in lieu of punishment for breaking said law, but this is their method.

My views on the treatment of women are the polar opposite of this situation...but again, this is not our culture.

I suppose we can take some consolation from the fact that the rapists got the # beat out of them.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:47 PM
We don't HAVE to respect such a custom.

I suppose we can acknowledge the existence of said custom.

As far as the whole cultural aspect.
Some parts of some cultures do not deserve to be preserved, and THIS cruelty to women
stuff is one that fits the category of "remember when they used to?"

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:48 PM
Oh yes! Its the woman's fault that she was raped, not the fault of the men who cant keep their genitals in their pants.

Seriously, you cannot get more barbaric than this. It is NOT the womans fault for being raped!

Think about it guys and dont let the fact that your men make you think "oh, that can never happen to me" because you can be raped as well. What if these four men had made their way into your car and the laws in your country stated that you deserved 90 lashes for "allowing" it to happen.

It's wrong, Its barabaric, and it oppresses 50% of the population. would any of you support a law that opresses someone?

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Valhall

So you're saying that because she was with a male friend four strangers stalked them, kidnapped them, carried them off to the country and gang-raped her? That's the cause and effect?

That could well be the case.
If it was known to the assalent that the guy she was with wasn't her husband, they may have inturpeted it to mean that she was of loose moral values and wouldn't report them if they took sexual advantage of her.

I know, warped concept.
Just because it seems warped to us, doesn't mean it isn't true in their social context.
I remember when I was living in Souel. My Korean girlfriend came to visit me in the office with a nice packed lunch. I was pleased so I have her a hug and moved to give her a kiss. She jerked back and told me "No!". I was more than a bit abashed.
Later she explained to me that that sort of public display in the work place would basicly be equivalent to me labeling her a whore.

Social context means a lot.


It could be as simple as; If she hadden't been out and about with her male friend, the chances of the rape occuring would have dropped dramaticly.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:51 PM
Don't get my post wrong, I was gritting my teeth as I said it. In my nature, a woman is beholden, especially one who has your love.

I don't respect this custom; as spacedoubt said, I acknowledge it. Unhappily.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:51 PM
Listen for all we know without knowing the people or the facts, and knowing that Saudi Arabia or any of these Islamic states are particularly fond of their women and sex acts, this could have been a case of consentual sex and she got caught and rather then say its was consentual and end up being dead from hanging or stoning she said she was raped instead. Who the hell really knows?

That same newspaper also reported back in the summer that a dozen or so IDF soldiers were having sex with a 12 year old girl repeatedly in a hotel room and asserted that the 12yo was ok with it and the soldiers got suspended serntences. They also reported that the girl lied about her I guess this made it OK. Please..for The JP to post this biased drivel and make it appear so morally wrong as long as its not one of their own its ok. I won't fall in for this propaganda its bogus.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 10:56 PM
Oh screw it.

Let me make a statment that I think we can all agree on:

Rape = BAD
Breaking laws = BAD
Misrepresenting information (such as titleing a thread to make it appear that a woman was punished for being raped when it is clearly NOT the case) on ATS = BAD!!

Now we're going to have to put up with a whole bunch of people that won't bother to read the story and will come rushing in to this thread to comment on how horrible it is to punish a rape victem for being a rape victem.

Mods, can you please alter this thread's title?
This is mis-information generation.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 11:01 PM
Agreed, BitRaiser.
Regardless of how inane it seems to beat a woman for something as trivial as being out with a man, the title of this thread is very misleading and causes people to respond emotionally before actually reading through to see what happened.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 11:31 PM
I've read here that "If she hadn't broken the law, she wouldn't have been raped."
That seems very much to be a "well if she didn't wear such revealing clothes..." type of argument.

Rodney King broke a law, but he didn't deserve such a brutal beating by police. A child breaking a parents rules doesn't deserve to be locked in a basement cage without food for days on end.

There have been insults and heated debate on this thread and everyone needs to step back and take a breath.

Blaming the victim is the bigger moral injustice here.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 11:38 PM
Thanks for making the change Zedd!

I don't think anyone here believes for an instant that the woman deserved to be raped because she broke the law. I don't think anyone here would even believe that a woman would deserve to be raped his she was drunk and naked.

The statment that was made was that she wouldn't have been raped if she hadden't broken the law... which may be true.

Mostly, the argument was fueled by the mis-information of the thread's original title.

So thanks for denying that lill bit o ignorance.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 11:47 PM

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Mostly, the argument was fueled by the mis-information of the thread's original title.

So thanks for denying that lill bit o ignorance.

You're welcome. It WAS misleading.
Carry on.

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 11:58 PM

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I've read here that "If she hadn't broken the law, she wouldn't have been raped."
That seems very much to be a "well if she didn't wear such revealing clothes..." type of argument.

Rodney King broke a law, but he didn't deserve such a brutal beating by police. A child breaking a parents rules doesn't deserve to be locked in a basement cage without food for days on end.

Well we are talking about 2 different civilizations with totally different laws. Its kind of hard to compare the 2 in such a way. Over there Rodney King would probably be beaten and thrown in a jail to rot and no one would have noticed.

I don't think any westerner will agree with rape=victims fault but going by another thread where a Muslim Cleric in Sydney recently appologized for making a statement about "an uncovered woman being a piece of meat" being offensive to western cultures, perhaps over there an unaccompanied woman is a direct invitation for something bad like that to to happen to them. Perhaps this is why there are laws like that over there in the first place.

I would probably bet my bottom dollar right now, rather then take pity on that woman, there are dozens of mothers there right now telling their daughters "You see what happens when you go out without a chaperone!"

posted on Nov, 2 2006 @ 11:59 PM
Its true, i was slightly misleading, but not entirely in my humble opinion, i should of entitled this thread ....

"Saudi Gang Rape Victim Receives 90 Lashes"

But think about it for a minute, she did receive 90 lashes for being Gang Raped, she reported the crime because she was raped, she wouldnt have reported the "other"crime if these spawns of satan hadnt gang raped her.

So its still my personal opinion that this " Saudi received 90 lashes for being Gang Raped"

posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 12:31 AM
The only problem with that same kind of logic is that you end with statements like...

"Man sentenced to jail for reporting robbery" when in reality he was reporting the robbery of his marijuana.

Obviously that crime is not as serious as rape and the Saudi law is absurd, but, as I stated earlier, I don't think that being the victim of a crime nullifies any crimes committed. The law doesn't technically work like that anywhere that I'm aware of, but rather it is up to the sympathies of the prosecutor whether to pursue the case as well as the judge as to the seriousness of the sentence.

posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 12:38 AM

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Blaming the victim is the bigger moral injustice here.

Please sir use your new powers of administration and point out where anyone in this thread has attempted to place any blame on the victim.

Somehow a thread that could have been used to discuss how many Americans seem to think it is their right and their duty impose western 'values' on people of other cultures has turned into a Bravo bashing assault.

This isnt about blaming a victim, but you were right, Rodney King wouldnt have gotten the beating he got HAD HE NOT BROKE THE LAW that night.
Did he deserve that beating? Absolutely not!

NOWHERE did I say she deserved the rape OR the punishment.
NOWHERE did I condone any behavior by any parties involved. Not once.

I also dont condone the abuse I have recieved this evening, and at the risk of flying the red flag or worse, I will tell you that the fact that it took till page 5 for you to tell everyone to calm down, while it only to to page 3 for you to slap me on the wrist via u2u and take 20% of my hard earned points away for 'excess quoting' seems odd to me.
I am sure there is something in the T+C that forbids the abuse I received at the hands of Valhal, I was victimized tonight, and the fact that you sat, and watched, and fined me.....well, it seems kinda like ..... and I hate to say it......
but it seems like you are blaming the victim.

posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 12:48 AM
as a matter of fact... an internal source has got the first photos of the punishment stage of the trial... see for yourself..

posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 01:05 AM

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

Um, had the rapists obeyed the law, she wouldn't've gotten raped. They are the criminals, not this women who's only crime was not being surpervised by a man.

The saudi law, simply, is abhorent and wrong. It doesn't matter that its 'their custom'. This is a custom from ancient tribal pre-civilized days. Its WRONG. It doesn't matter that they're been doing WRONG for a long time.

[edit on 3-11-2006 by Nygdan]

posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 02:46 AM

Originally posted by Valhall

How did her breaking the law warrant her being raped?


It's unfortunate that today's people will not connect the dots, isn't it ?

So, let me add my questions of the day:

1) How did the gangbangers know for sure that it wasn't her brother or husband?

2) would it have made any difference ?

3) is rape an official punishment ?

I mean imagine the siutation, predatory rapists chasing their prey down the roads, what does that say about a society ? (both, western and ME this time...)

now, magine this was a concerted 'effort' by people who knew she was going with a stranger beforeheand (a planned attack), why did they do it? because they disagreed with her actions or because they believed she was fair game - cannot report a crime when you were violating the law (driving with strangers), can you ?

what does that say about the perpetrators and their society? is rape a common sport in these regions? from what i've heard this might very well be the case and all these 'laws' (
) are there to prevent victims from complaining.

now, what kind of society is this?

posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 02:54 AM
The saudi position is similar to old jewish conditions on rape, if a girl was raped out in the countryside, it was rape, but if she was raped in the town or city, she's a whore and should be punsihed, the rationale was, out in the wilderness, no one would hear her fighting back or screaming, but in the cities, people would, so she must've not called out and must've wanted it.

The saudi position seems to be that this woman is a whore, she was acting imporperly, by not being supervised by a member of her family, and this attack, it was provoked by her, so these guys are guilty, but she is guilty too, and is then punished.

Its stone age thinking, perhaps literally, but then again, saudi arabia is a country that won't even let people practice their own religion freely, even muslim Shiites aren't allowed to worhsip openly. Its run by a Monarch, a family that came to power by supporting a group of wild tribesmen called the Ikhwan, and then, once gaining the throne, killing all of them.
In a sense, what does anyone expect? This is a country that was going through the motions of entering something like the dark ages of europe only a few decades ago. I'm surprised they didn't bury her up to her neck and throw rocks at her head until it cracked open, thats what other backwards countries do with rape victims. Heck, sometimes they even allow one tribe to rape a woman from another tribe, if someone from it had perfectly consensual, but out of marriage-arrangment sex, with one of their women. And eye for an eye, they figure, in some places.

This action is barbaric, stupid, and ignorant, but its par for the course for saudi arabia.

posted on Nov, 3 2006 @ 03:39 AM
C,mon guys. Forgetting about the incident for a second..

You seem to be hypocritically attacking a Country for having the same basis of laws that other countries do.. Including the US and UK..

If a 10 yr old 6 stone unarmed pacificistic burglar breaks into a house... he broke the law..
If the 30 yr old 25 stone martial art expert homeowner then attacks the kid and breaks everybone in his body.. he broke the law..

What you have to do at some point is seperate your own personal feeling from the incident and respect... THE FACTS of the case..

Do you let the kid off because he got beaten withing an inch of his life trying to make some money for his sick granny... NO??.. he burgled someones house?.

Do you let the psychopathic ex UFC maniac off because he was burgled??
I wonder exactly where you would stand on that.

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