Saudi gets sentance of 90 lashes for breaking the law

Originally posted by BitRaiser

Originally posted by sardion2000
Really? Do we still conduct public executions? Witch Burnings? Crusades....erm forget that one...

No response just a smiley?

[edit on 2-11-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by kojac
Vallhal,

Saudi Law prohibits Women riding in a car with Men thay are not married to or related to.

Whether you agree with it or not, in Saudi Arabia that is the law.

In essence, 11bravo is right.

[edit on 12/06/2005 by kojac]

You must have missed my post. I don't care if her law calls for her lashing because she broke it.

Did you notice you just agreed to the following statement?

"She wouldn't have been raped had she not broke the law."

So now I'll ask you. How did her breaking the law cause her to get raped?

He's saying she broke the law by sitting in a car with the man who raped her. Had she not been in the car (breaking the law) she would not have been raped.

It, well, sucks. It sounds cruel and heartless, and it pretty much is, but that's how the law of the land is in her world. We don't decide Saudi law, so what can we do but respect their customs?

SHE WASN'T RAPED BY THE MAN SHE WAS WITH IN THE CAR!

That was her friend. They were followed to the car by four strangers (ALL MARRIED MEN BY THE WAY) who gang-banged her.

SHE WASN'T RAPED BY THE MAN IN THE BACKSEAT. HE HAD NO PART IN IT.

So I'll ask again....how did her breaking the law get her name at the top of the

"I NEED TO BE GANG-BANGED" list?

According to Saudi Law, she put herself into an illegal situation. Whilst in that illegal situation, she was raped. Therfore if she had not put herself into that illegal situation, she would not have been raped.

I am drinking alcohol in the middle of the street. A drunk driver runs me over whilst i am drinking alcohol in the middle of the street. According to the law, whose fault is it?

Please note, I find rape, and this law abhorant. I am simply playing devils advocate.

Saudi culture to us is backward.

Hey this still doesn't stop Papa Bush from doin Biz with the Saudis now does it. I doubt Bravo is out having dinner with these people who not only make these laws but enforce them as well. Instead of attacking Bravo why not tell Bush Jr. to tell daddy to stop business dealings with these people ? If not, he is only stating facts that this is how its done in their country, its not America and its not Great Britain. Archaic laws, yes, but nevertheless their laws. Instead of shmoozing with them it would seem that our politicians should be the ones showing outrage on our behalf and not helping to make them richer. People act surprised about this meanwhile its almost well known a woman can't even drive a car in that country, so why should it surprise or offend you if a woman will get whipped for being alone with a man if that is the law over there. If you are an adulterer they hang both!

She wasn't raped by the man in the car.

How did her breaking the law warrant her being raped?

Originally posted by Valhall
11Bravo,

It's probably not going to go away that easily. Did you or did you not state

I agree if you are saying it shouldnt be against the law to ride in a car with a man other than your husband, but its not our law, its theirs, and I would think that one of the very reasons for this law was to keep women from being raped.
Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

Are those your words?

Come on now Val... lay off a bit.

You understand what he ment as clearly as I do.
It was NOT her fault that she got raped. If she HAD followed the law, it probably wouldn't have happened. If it HAD happened, she wouldn't have been punished. If she did not break the law, she would not have been punished.

Bravo stated his comment badly, but we don't need to beat him up for it.
His point is valid.

Can anyone provide another more credible news source that is reporting this? I just looked through the site the article is posted on, and found it's an Israeli news paper, highly biased against other Middle Eastern countries.

How did her breaking the law get her raped?

Tell me. No one has yet.

Originally posted by sardion2000

Originally posted by BitRaiser

Originally posted by sardion2000
Really? Do we still conduct public executions? Witch Burnings? Crusades....erm forget that one...

No response just a smiley?

[edit on 2-11-2006 by sardion2000]

Sorry, just an honest reaction.

Yup, Crusades definatly still seem to happen.
Thanks for underlining my earlier point that we sinners don't really have the right to be casting stones.

double

[edit on 2-11-2006 by Johnmike]

Okay, so if she had walked to this car by herself the four strangers who gang raped her wouldn't have followed her to the car and done this, right?

The court heard that the victim and her friend were followed by the assailants to their car, kidnapped and taken to a remote farm, where the raping occurred.

Case of the wrong place and the wrong case, as far as I can tell, and that place was going into a car and breaking the law.


But she isn't being whipped for being raped, she's being whipped for getting into a car.

No John, I know that.

But I think I'm counting four or five members on this thread now who are contending she "wouldn't have gotten raped if she hadn't broken the law"...and I just don't see where we can get there in a civilized mind-set.

I think it's just a matter of cause and effect that concerns the statement "If she wasn't in the car with that man, she wouldn't be raped." The statement shouldn't imply the morality of her actions. If the woman was raped in a grocery store, you could say "If she wasn't in the grocery store, she wouldn't have been raped."

These sentiments are similar to how a lot of people feel after something bad happens. They say to themselves, "If only I had been a minute later..."

I don't know if Bravo's statements meant to imply the morality of her actions in being with the man when she got raped, but to me it appears like a "If she just hadn't been there at the time.." type of statement.

But, I could also see it implying that if she didn't break Saudi law, it wouldn't have happened. In that case, Bravo, would you consider the situation the same way if she was in the US where it isn't illegal to be with an unrelated male?

Originally posted by Valhall
How did her breaking the law get her raped?

Tell me. No one has yet.

In theory, if she hadn't been out and about with her friend, she wouldn't have been in the situation.

You are splitting hairs, tho.

I think Bravo's intent was to say that if she hadden't broken the law, she wouldn't have been punished.

As I said, he stated that point badly, but you don't need to be dragging this out.
I noticed you never once responded to any of my comments in support of Bravo's ill-stated case.

She might not have gotten raped, as if she wasn't breaking the law she might not have been there. Who knows? It's a case of chance.

I have to advocate respect for other nations' law because so many people (including in this thread) feel that our laws and standards should be forced to replace those of other nations. And this belief is everywhere.

Jamuhn,

So you're saying that because she was with a male friend four strangers stalked them, kidnapped them, carried them off to the country and gang-raped her? That's the cause and effect?

Originally posted by Valhall
Jamuhn,

So you're saying that because she was with a male friend four strangers stalked them, kidnapped them, carried them off to the country and gang-raped her? That's the cause and effect?

She was not raped because of that, I'm saying that you could say the same thing if she were in any set of circumstances. For example, if she had gone to the store, you could say "If only she hadn't gone to the store at the time..." Kind of like wishing that you weren't in that wrong place at that wrong time.

But, then again, I'm not entirely convinced that others are saying the same thing.