Originally posted by Valhall
No, I'm not a liar, you littling waffling pisser.

more name calling? what is this 4 or 5 posts where you have called me names?

You said

Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

What law did she break 11Bravo?

a SAUDI LAW, or didnt you read the article?

She sat the backseat of a car with a man she wasn't married to.

So...what did you say?

Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

You said, had she not broken the law she wouldn't have been raped.

YOU said it.

Yes, I did say that.

You said if she hadn't been sitting in that backseat she wouldn't have been raped.

What? No, I said."Had she not broken the law she wouldnt have been raped' Youre the one that mentioned the backseat. I dont know where you got a backseat from. I think the article mentions a farm. You pulled that backseat comment out of your oversized butt.

Embrace your ignorance. If you're going to flaunt it in front of the world wide web, at least embrace it while you're doing it.

Amazing
You must need a whole box of twinkies, you seem really mad tonight.
I think you must have some personall issues surrounding all this, and Im sorry for that Val, but dont you dare attempt to take it out on me by calling me names and attempting to put words in my mouth.




[edit on 2-11-2006 by 11Bravo]

Originally posted by Valhall
The lashing don't bother me. If she wants to live in a society that gives lashes for having male friends, she has the right to. More power to her. She broke the law she has chosen to live under. That's separate from the rape issue.

At least in the 80s, Women weren't allowed to buy Long Distance Bus or Plane tickets and they could only take a Taxi if they were with their Children or Husband. Walking to another country isn't really an option. Finding someone to help them is extremely risky as the religious police are everywhere, they outnumber the normal police force 3 to 1. They also have a Secret police that apparently works closely with the Morality Police as they are called over there.

I just noticed, this thread title is highly misleading, the woman was lashed for being with an unrelated man, not for being raped. Why do people insist on sensationalizing and outright lying about the situation?

The situation itself is bad enough without having to distract from it by lying that she was punished for being raped....

It has to do with morals... Morals for a living breatheing human being. Did she want to get raped by these men? Instead of punishing the victim, the criminals who perpitrated this crime should be the ONLY ones recieveing severe punishment!
Forget about well the west does this and the middle east does that... Its wrong no matter how you look at it! That is a backwards society!

Originally posted by sardion2000

It's not an Islamic thing, it's a regional thing. There are still quite a few backward Christian sects out there in the Arab World as well as in Africa. Some of them are quite extreme and almost indistinguishable from the Jihadis except for the fact that they are wearing crosses around their necks instead of the traditional garb and beard.

[edit on 2-11-2006 by sardion2000]

Good point. I never thought about that. it still doesnt make it right for either side!

Originally posted by semperfoo
It has to do with morals... Morals for a living breatheing human being. Did she want to get raped by these men? Instead of punishing the victim, the criminals who perpitrated this crime should be the ONLY ones recieveing severe punishment!

The 4 men were given lashings and prison sentences, the most being 1000 lashes for one of them.

Also, she wasn't punished for being raped, she was punished for being with an unrelated man prior to the rape occuring. It may still be backwards, but I at least want to make the facts straight.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I just noticed, this thread title is highly misleading, the woman was lashed for being with an unrelated man, not for being raped. Why do people insist on sensationalizing and outright lying about the situation?

The situation itself is bad enough without having to distract from it by lying that she was punished for being raped....

You know what, I didn't read the article and if that was the case, then that makes me a little bit more disgusted.

Now that I know that, the sentence was extremely light.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Abandonment of morality!!!!!!

Bit man have you lost your mind dude??? WE PUNISH the guilty, and PROTECT the victim... we do not punish a women who was raped - we never have and never will... Its just not right...

We like to think we do, but we blind ourselves to our own failures as a culture.

In our North American sociaty, the all-mighty dollar is the undisputed king. Most of us spend our entire lives trying to make more and more money. We don't help each other. Community is dead. The poor are troden upon, take advantage of, then dissmissed as "scum". We leave the mentally ill to suffer on the streets when they should be in treatment. We treat addicts like criminals while we leave the major drug dealers alone because they're an important part of our hidden ecconomy.

Meanwhile, even justice is at the mercy of the dollar. O.J. didn't walk because he's a nice guy (or because people believed he really didn't do it). He walked because he's wealthy. Martha Stewart got a light wrist slap for a very serious corporate crime. Every day we allow the rich and the powerful to transgress, simply because they are rich and powerful.

So yeah, I'll stand by my comment.
We have some very serious moral issues in our sociaty.
(I could go on, but I'll save it for another thread)

But I do get your point. I just don't agree with it. A women world wide deserves protection from rapists, what ever religion, what ever creed, what ever colour.

I agree with your sentement.
I'd be willing to transgress the law if I was to confront a rapist. The crime sickens me completely.

However, it's simply not my place to enforce my values on a people who have different cultural values. If the People of Arabia were to call out to the west for support for social change, I'd support it.

As yet, they have not.

Rape is not just a crime, it is an assault on the soul and mind of the victim. It is about power over the victim.. about defileing the victim...

It can also be a crime of base instincts and impulse. In a sexually repressed culture, I can understand how weak willed males could lose control when faced with an opportunity to get their rocks off. Now again, I'm not saying I condone it... I can just understand it.

As I said before, I believe that if a guy can't keep it in his pants then the best solution is to take it away. Physically, permanantly, and painfully.

Sheesh, guess ill leave this thread alone now....its making me feel ill the very thought these people think like this........

Trying to wrap your head around the way that other people think is a valuable skill and one that is lacking in our modern culture. Yes, you might find their ideals and values repugnant, but if you can understand you are better equiped to deal.

Besides, it's things like this that remind me of how good we have it despite our own failures. We really are a lucky people here in the west. We should remember that and do our best to live up to our blessings.

11Bravo,

It's probably not going to go away that easily. Did you or did you not state

I agree if you are saying it shouldnt be against the law to ride in a car with a man other than your husband, but its not our law, its theirs, and I would think that one of the very reasons for this law was to keep women from being raped.
Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

Are those your words?

Originally posted by sardion2000

Nope, i think islam and the west are not compatible whilst they still are in the stone age both mentally and emotionally.

It's not an Islamic thing, it's a regional thing. There are still quite a few backward Christian sects out there in the Arab World as well as in Africa. Some of them are quite extreme and almost indistinguishable from the Jihadis except for the fact that they are wearing crosses around their necks instead of the traditional garb and beard.

[edit on 2-11-2006 by sardion2000]

sorry, but these types of people exist everywhere, not just in these parts of the world. so long as religion is an excuse (no matter what religion it is), they will always exist..

Really? Do we still conduct public executions? Witch Burnings? Crusades....erm forget that one...

Originally posted by sardion2000
Really? Do we still conduct public executions?

My understanding is that these happen a lot in the US with people getting the death penalty, just on a much smaller scale.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I just noticed, this thread title is highly misleading, the woman was lashed for being with an unrelated man, not for being raped. Why do people insist on sensationalizing and outright lying about the situation?

The situation itself is bad enough without having to distract from it by lying that she was punished for being raped....

Very, very true.

Misrepresentation of the facts on these forums is getting out of hand.

There were two crimes involved here.
Under Saudi law, she shouldn't have been riding around with some guy who wasn't her husband.

Also under Saudi law, those guys should have kept it in their damned pants.

She was not punished for being raped. She was punished for breaking Saudi law. The rapists were also punished for breaking Saudi law.

1000 lashes. I mean... yikes! That dude will be lucky to live through that and will definatly bare some horrible scars.

I hope the one who delivers the administrative punishment focuses mostly on the groin area.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by sardion2000
Really? Do we still conduct public executions?

My understanding is that these happen a lot in the US with people getting the death penalty, just on a much smaller scale.

Don't get me started about America....

Oh I did state that.
I would quote you but I have been warned and fined now for excessive quoting.
Five posts now you have bashed me, called me names, and told direct lies about me, but I got the warning and the fine.

So yes Mighty val the untouchable, I did say that she wouldnt have been raped had she only obeyed the law.
What lie are you going to twist that into?
Its all right here for the world to see what YOU said and what I said.
You are the liar.
You are the name caller.
I spoke simple fact, had she obeyed the law she wouldnt have been raped.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Really? Do we still conduct public executions? Witch Burnings? Crusades....erm forget that one...

How did her breaking the law get her raped?

Originally posted by sardion2000
Really? Do we still conduct public executions?

Oh not the holy US! After all, what kind of barbarians would we be if we allowed things such as electrocutions, hangings, lethal injections, firing squads, and gas chambers to be used as capital punishment? It's a good thing US is more civilized than barbaric countries that have to resort to this type of punishment.

[edit on 2-11-2006 by DJMessiah]

Listen, listen... It's terrible, it truly is... But you have to understand this. YOUR moral standards DO NOT apply to anyone BUT YOUSELF. In a country, people are forced to adhere to certain standards, this is done to protect society and people rights. For example, in the United States, it is immoral and illegal to murder or steal. But some people believe murder and stealing is okay, and its their right to live somewhere (if they can find unclaimed land, which isn't exactly easy) and practice this. They can form a nation with their own morals, free of arrogant people telling them their beliefs are wrong.

Now that's a terribly harsh example, and I don't believe in that (too much anarchy), but it makes a point. Polygamy would be a better example, gay marriage, things like that. The truth is, other countries don't have the same morals as you, your culture, or your nation. So while we can be quick to judge others, respect their autonomy and right to be who they are, not who YOU want them to be.

Valhall,

Saudi Law prohibits Women riding in a car with Men thay are not married to or related to.

Whether you agree with it or not, in Saudi Arabia that is the law.

In essence, 11bravo is right.

[edit on 12/06/2005 by kojac]

[edit on 12/06/2005 by kojac]