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Can we stop the insanity???

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posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 09:24 AM
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As a relatively new member, I come seeking understanding and knowledge. When I see threads that begin with "earth shattering pictures" or "I'm a hybrid", my natural curiousity leads to that fateful click and ends with me shaking my head. Eventually, these threads end up in a free for all, with insults and accusations. They basically add nothing to the enjoyment and enlightenment that ATS is founded on.

It is one thing to share experiences or discuss topics and theories that have "meat", but I have grown tired of the attention seekers who have bogus and insane claims that have no merit.

How do we stop the insanity?

Things that make me shake my head:
1. blurry photos that are "proof positive"
2. poster claiming to be aliens or hybrids
3. Anything to do with scientology
4. Pictures of famous people with "lizard" eyes

(Please feel free to add)

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Eyesofbear]




posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 09:42 AM
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In my opinion, the posts currently in the Aliens and UFOs forum, are VERY important for all of us. There's the Disclosure Project, there's the Ralph Ring interview at Project Camelot - the denial of free energy technology affects us ALL on a second-by-second basis. There's an awesome thread on training the mind to meditate and reach a state of awareness that is positive for all of us. There are the John Lear moon pictures and all the indicting stuff that comes from NASA that they continue to deny to their graves. Boy, I'd love to bump that Space Shuttle Atlantis thread back up to the top to really cap it off, this stuff should never be forgotten or thrown to the bottom of the pile.

I'm actually seeing truly good quality from top-to-bottom right now, of issues affecting us all in the UFO field here at ATS. I haven't actually seen any of those "HELP! I AM A SHAPESHIFTING REPTOID FROM PLANET ZONK AND WILL TAKE PICS IN MID-TRANSFORMATION SOON" threads for quite some time now.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 09:53 AM
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Debunkers and Disinformationalists seem to be blending in much better lately... keeping it interesting although skewing real progress on anything.

Thats what ATS is here for right? Entertainment.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 09:56 AM
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Hello


I do understand where you are coming from and have come from that very same place many times (if that sentence is even understandable) but if I may let me just question whether that is actually important. It is not so much a question to you directly but also a doubt I place myself constantly - the threads that I find to be absurd is it really important to stop them or block them?

The way I myself choose to seek knowledge and truth is not so much as finding a chain of thought or ammount of proof to follow but instead to take everything in and try to use in the building of my knowledge. You mentioned that understanding and knowledge are things you came here to seek but I ask - would you really accept them if they were given to you? Personally I think understanding and knowledge are created in the individual through the information one has access to and the reasoning one makes from it.

In that sense I myself preffer to have a forum with things that I personaly find absurd and others that inspire me. If the forum only had information that inspired me I wouldn't know it all. If all the information was absurd to me I'd still need more. Honestly there are a lot of threads and posts at ATS that do not mean much to me - whether because it just seems absurd to me or because I simply don't understand what in hell is being discussed (pretty much in line with the examples you gave). But I am happy with the fact that I have the choice to buy into it or not.

The whole spectrum (or at least a big spectrum) - that's what I see here and keeps me here. The very fact that you have religion vs science, left vs right and much much more is what in my opinion makes for a huge ammount of information. In my view the more information that is available to me the better. More choices. More hypothesis to consider. More things to think about. And then one makes up their own mind based on the information one has access to.

Why would you wish to stop someone from saying something you do not believe? You are seeking knowledge right? You don't believe them right? How does it affect you, then?

Using one of your examples I myself preffer to listen to someone claiming to be a hybrid and choose not to believe them than not being given that choice at all.

As for the discussion that usually heats up around threads like this yes
I am with you but that is just the way things develop sometimes - we're always free to get out of the topic and investigate another (so many news and theories go through ATS every day).

If I may suggest (though I know just as much as you) - don't seek knowledge and understanding, seek information and then build knowledge and understanding yourself.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 09:56 AM
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Perhaps you didn't read the latest "they are here to teach us" thread. I do agree there are great threads that offer a tremendous amount of information, but I wouldn't say it is commonplace.

Maybe some of what John Lear has to offer sounds outrageous, but he makes no claim to being something he isn't. To be honest, Mr. Lear has provided me with a considerable amount of information as well as lead me in the right direction. Again, I cannot always grasp all of what he is saying, but he has been very helpful.

There are many threads on the Disclosure Project, but in general, the hype is more than the information.

I'll pass on the meditation thread.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Nemithesis
Debunkers and Disinformationalists seem to be blending in much better lately... keeping it interesting although skewing real progress on anything.

Thats what ATS is here for right? Entertainment.


The basis of my thread is that when the nutcases and misinformation shows up, the thread breaks down into insults and off topic discussions of etiquette. Therefore, we lose sight of what most are here for.

It also tends to make the skeptic more skeptical and removes the benefit of doubt.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by Nemithesis
Debunkers and Disinformationalists seem to be blending in much better lately...


I didn't really understand what you meant by this and wonder if it would be alright to ask for you to explain this further. Do you mean... "closed-minded" people or members whose opinions don't really follow a certain pattern that you would rather see on ATS or were you implying something more "sinister" in the sense of a professional group whose task is to confuse and soil any piece of information available to the public?



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Eyesofbear
There are many threads on the Disclosure Project, but in general, the hype is more than the information.


As it concerns the disclosure Project I think the important part is to focus on the witnesses that it provided and not so much on the project itself. I have to say that I found a lot of information that I thought was helpful for my own search of truth in there and it wouldn't have happened if there wasn't a thread on ATS referring me to it. Which was kind of my point - don't expect a thread called "TRUTH" that provides instant revelation. Take what you can from what is offered to you and select what is helpful or not to your own research/investigation. There may be even some pieces of information that ou do not need now but that will mean more later on. And vice-versa - there are surely things that were important before and now looking back you don't see them as important but they brought you to this day.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:11 AM
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I've spent the last two days following this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Which has me wondering what, if anything, posted here is real.
Or is this place full of psy-ops working dillegently to confuse the hell out of every conspiracy ever.



[edit on 27-10-2006 by Nemithesis]



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by InTrueFiction
You mentioned that understanding and knowledge are things you came here to seek but I ask - would you really accept them if they were given to you?
Why would you wish to stop someone from saying something you do not believe? You are seeking knowledge right? You don't believe them right? How does it affect you, then?


Actually, I have gained a great deal of information, not necessarily from posts, but from the posters. In one case, I was given information that I followed up on and found it to be very interesting. It has shaped a great deal of my thinking.

I believe the posers and misinformation specialists feed the skeptical side of me. It's one thing to post "this is what I believe" and another to say "I am something that I am not".

It was always my nature to trust what a person is saying until proven wrong. This may be a defect, but it has served me well. In this type of place, I've become the opposite, I believe a person to be dishonest until proven honest.

You ask how this affects me? It has added a filter that retards knowledge. In other words, you are not as open-minded as you used to be.

In short, the fakers have added to the skeptical side and taken away from the open minded side.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Nemithesis
Thats what ATS is here for right? Entertainment.

Mmmm...IMHO, not really. Although it can get entertaining at times, I chalk that up to the fact that ATS has grown so big since it started. When you get this big, this fast, you're bound to attract the crackpots/wannabe illuminatis/"left field" theorists/etc...Plus, if there's anything posted that gets in the direction of truth that someone wants covered up, you'll attract disinformation artists/debunkers that make no sense...You get the idea.

What I'm here for is to walk the path to enlightenment...The first step I took was developing the skill of "critical thinking", something that sadly lacks in the public education system. Critical thinking means you don't take anything at face value; ATS is here to provide a venue for people who can dig at the truth & present their evidence & own thoughts on their topics.

I think ATS is merely a minor form of Edward O. Wilson's (a very reknowned biologist) goal of Consilience...The ultimate blending of all knowledge into a single truth that drives everything. The researchers & news-diggers here (at least, the ones who are serious about it) seem to be doing that job.


I've also heard it said that true genius cannot exist unless it's at least touched with insanity. You just have to be able to develop Critical Thinking & seperate the truly cracked minds from the almost-stable ones...


[edit on 27-10-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
What I'm here for is to walk the path to enlightenment...The first step I took was developing the skill of "critical thinking", something that sadly lacks in the public education system.


Thank you for that post. I am also walking the path to enlightenment.

Critical thinking was part of the MBA program (many years ago). I won't profess to following all aspects of the process, but I have found the most common problem is selfish motives. They tend to cloud the process a great deal and manipulate information and data.

If you are bombarded with false claims and outlandish stories, it shifts your ability to be fair-minded. Hence, the basis for this thread.

Again, thank you for the very worthwhile post. I will consider it a lesson!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fixed quote

[edit on 103131p://upSaturday by masqua]



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Eyesofbear
You ask how this affects me? It has added a filter that retards knowledge. In other words, you are not as open-minded as you used to be.

In short, the fakers have added to the skeptical side and taken away from the open minded side.


I know.
And I was even writing about that yesterday in the thread Aliens showing themselves soon? as it concerns how when someone displays a belief in a manner so radical and personal they risk destroying the same belief they are speaking for and like you said it adds a filter - builds skepticism. However, I'd say that skepticism is a very important tool to develop.

In other words, I'm not trying to say that any thread claiming something ridiculous is helpful because it will make you skeptical but the fact itself that you learned to choose between the information that is given to you, that like you said a filter was added - that is awsome I think. Because filters are always necessary, I mean, with enough pull from the members of ATS and the will of the Admins there could be a form of filter placed on ATS for you in the sense that others would filter the "insanity" that you spoke of before it reached you. From your words though I think you're not only capable of but also would probably preffer to filter it yourself instead of having someone do it for you (could be wrong of course since I don't know you
).

In my case however - I preffer to be my own filter rather than have someone else do it for me. Filtered information is out there in piles. Granted. What is hard to find is the opposite IMO. And also IMO what we want to find here is the opposite. Speaking for myself the reason I personally came to ATS was to have a go at doing the filtering for myself.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Yo Eyesofbear, while the internet is a fabulous form of communication and entertainment it has completely ruined the credability of all the topics discussed on these boards. Along with the advent of image manipulation software we're in a quandry of deciding what, if anything, is for real.

There are legitimate sites with places where you can download or reference complete books and documents. On the otherhand any gomer can register a domain name and build a site with no legitimate background or references. The gomer can fill it with fantasy stuff or stuff that he actually believes but has no proof of. There's no professional editors or fact checkers as there are in the journalism industry except on a few major news sites.

We see photos reproduced on sites like ATS not knowing their pedigree or whether anyone anywhere with scientific backgrounds have ever scrutinized them for validity. Yet people jump headlong into defending the undefendable- dubious images from unknown sources. No where in the real world's infrastructure does such cavalier attitude exist.

People see things in images that may or may not exist. The interpretation is up to the viewer. If you see a monkey on Mars that's OK with me. I respectfully disagree because I believe I see something else. Just don't continue to beat me over the head with your opinion as being the only valid one that there is.

I may believe in the probability that others exist in the vastness of the universe and that the Earth holds many mysteries we don't understand but I don't see the boogeyman behind every tree or believe that every outhouse in Arkansas is part of some conspiracy that our buddy Gomer invented on his wobbly web site weirdcrapola.net.

In the brick and mortar world if some stranger using a made up screen name-like name of Wooki approached you with a document rife with mispelled words and poor grammer and said it was a winning certificate for the Irish Sweepstakes you probably wouldn't believe him. Why should you?

There's a lot of bored folks out there. Some create viruses and unleash them on the world. Some are arsonists and start fires. Why on earth would they you say? That's a deep phsychological topic for here. Some are playing with software to create bogus alien or UFO images while others make up flights of fancy about conspiracies or abductions or flying to Venus in a saucer. All of the above give the instigators a perverted sensation of power and noteriety even if it is in absentia.

The reality is that any images proported to be sensational that came into existence since the internet and imaging software are suspect of being bogus to a far higher degree than anything before. Unfortunately separating the wheat from the chaff is near impossible and any legitimate images or stories are jaundiced to begin with.

Before when a negative was examined and put through batteries of scientific tests by impartial tech guys all that could be proved was that they weren't fake. It was still up to the viewer to decide whether they depicted something extraordinary like a UFO. An non-fake image of a saucer doesn't prove its piloted by grays from Remulek here on a butt probing mission. There is too much assuming of facts that can't possibly hold up to simple logic there.

With the internet an inserted fantastic story and image can travel across the globe in seconds and you have a similar themed story and pic manufactured in no time. The part about the good old days is that it was quite easy to ascertain that people were segregated by geopraphic distances without the ability to communicate so the probability was high that the siting of a UFO over the Falklands which was identical in detail to one 45 minutes later over Madagascar had something going for it.

What is more likely today is some high school kid snickering up his sleeve at the preposterous BS he was responsible for manufacturing that got taken seriously on the web. His status ws elevated and he had bragging rights in his home town to his circle of cronies in Podunk, Iowa.

We know that publications like the Enquirer and its ilk are admittedly full of made up crapola for sensationalism to sell papers. In fact the lizard people personalites BS was invented by writer on that paper! Now every jamoke that fires up a PC can turn Tom Crruise into a lizard with PhotoShop Essentials. With the web EVERYbody can have a byline as a BS writer, with illustrations. Muuuuaaaahahaha!

Eyesofbear do what I do and just read the stuff that in your personal realm of interest and skip the stuff you deem as outragous. If you do wander into something comment respectfully and move on.

There are endless possibilities out there and I wouldn't discount every scenerio of plausible and rational deductive conclusion. Again what's implausible and irational to you and me are seen as solid facts for others.


[edit on 10/27/06 by Cruizer]



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

I think ATS is merely a minor form of Edward O. Wilson's (a very reknowned biologist) goal of Consilience...The ultimate blending of all knowledge into a single truth that drives everything.


I absolutely buy into that philosophy, much more than the opposite of taking consiled knowledge and exploding it into fragments that will be analysed, refined and altered to suit different individuals desires, making it impossible to reconcile.
I have banking in mind when I think of that.


The researchers & news-diggers here (at least, the ones who are serious about it) seem to be doing that job.



There are a lot of very smart, highly dedicated and honest people here, no question.

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Nemithesis]



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by Cruizer
Yo Sofbear, while the internet is a fabulous form of communication and entertainment it has completely ruined the credability of all the topics discussed on these boards. Along with the advent of image manipulation software we're in a quandry of deciding what, if anything, is for real.There are endless possibilities out there and I wouldn't discount every scenerio of plausible and rational deductive conclusion. Again what's implausible and irational to you and me are seen as solid facts for others.


I don't discount every scenario, but I now have a healthy dose of skeptic. Again, I'm an avid reader of John Lear's thoughts, so I can't say that everything completely "out there" makes me shake my head.

It is the obvious ones. Photo manipulation, claiming to be alien or hybrid, declaring "proof positive"...these are the types of threads that discredit and mire the discussion.

As an example, If I came up to you showed you an obviously altered photo and proclaimed this is proof that aliens exist, you would certainly shake your head. It would be shame on me for altering and then lying about it. Now, you have 10 people in a row making the same outrageous claim, with equally altered photos. after some time, you begin to immediately reject the claims and expect it to be a fake.

If you tell you have heard that people live on Saturn and they look like us, but you had no proof. I can still accept it may be possible, because I have no proof to the contrary.

My point is simple, the frauds are creating the problem!



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 11:36 AM
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Not to troll, but doesnt this post fit into the same criteria that you are saying other posts should not fall into?

At least the people who post fuzzy photos, lizard eyes and bob sagat is a hybrid posts are trying to make a contribution beyond complaining about posts. I see your point in that they are little extreme and most often not what they are claiming, but they are no more valid than a post about the absurdness of posts...



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Eyesofbear
My point is simple, the frauds are creating the problem!


Youre 100% correct, not only in terms of the board here, but alot of Ufology, which I usually refer to as UFOOLogy.

What youre actually talking about is accountability, something sorely lacking in this community of UFO research as here as well. Awhile back I tried posting a thread to hold such cases and people accountable for statements and actions..one's the purely show the lack of data to back up claims. It seemed to get a good response, but as of yet, I havent seen it acted upon.

Unfortunately, because I often speak out about such cases and the people involved in them, I've been labeled a "debunker".

So-friggin-be-it then, if thats what I get labeled to hold people accountable and examine the quality of the messengers that bring us the for-profit or for-fame only cases.

The bottom line is this bud, call them out. Make them present the data, and then check it out yourself. Find a hoax? Can you prove it? Expose it. Publicly. No mercy.

However realize that the charlatans will then malign you with false statements and outright lies, personal attacks etc, to explain their own shortcomings.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by Eyesofbear
If you tell you have heard that people live on Saturn and they look like us, but you had no proof. I can still accept it may be possible, because I have no proof to the contrary.


That's a healthy attitude and I agree with it 100%. I think many of the skeptics (me included), get our panties twisted when that scenario is not given as a 'possibility', but as fact. And, that if we don't see 'the obvious' coverups, that somehow we deserve some kind of pity.

And please, simply characterizing it as 'opinion' doesn't somehow alter the meaning of the posts. We can read, and when its not clearly speculative theory, or 'what ifs?', it becomes little more than wishful thinking.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 11:55 AM
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I wasn't aware we were making any outrageous or false claims? So to answer your question, no, this doesn't fit in the same category.



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