For all the Athiests.........

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Thanks for that grimreaper. How do you know when the dream is a precog one and not just a dream?

well thus far its usually such an enhanced form of dreaming which I am not usually capable of. Dreaming, can and does often take physical sense when enhanced. You can taste and feel things, as though they were actually happening. Usually I dont have this, and usually they are just normal dreams. The super enhanced ones seem to be the ones that come true. I can feel everything, taste, smell, and even control. Its like being physically there in EVERY sense of it.

I don't ever know till it starts to happen for real.
I haven't ever changed what would happen, but it is good that you did so.
One time I had one that came true about ten years later. It was very odd, and I told lots of people about it. The reality was very slightly different than the dream, but the key points, which were very odd, were the same. I always wondered what the dream meant, and now feel like I know.

Yea I usually tend to just not mention them right away or introduce them by explaining how dreams can actually utilizes physical senses. It does make you very aware that all emotional responses are by no means conscious responses. They effect your consciousness, but they are no responses of your consciousness at all. Happiness and pain are not conscious responses, they are emotional, and you realize this quickly.

In three of my precog dreams, there has been a celebrity, though they are not any particularly favoured ones. That is the only thing I've noticed that they have had in common, and even then, that has been less than half of them.
I also have a dream that I wonder about.... from about 25 years ago. I don't know what it meant, and my gut feeling is that it did mean something, though I could be wrong.

Always good to just analyse them when possible. even if they dont make sense.

I have never had dreams with taste or smell, but I have had tactile sensations. I have had one lucid dream. Have you had any?

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I have never had dreams with taste or smell, but I have had tactile sensations. I have had one lucid dream. Have you had any?

I would say 1 out of 4 of my dreams are lucid dreams usually. and they usually come with occassional smells and tastes. Like Ill taste a cookie, but wont smell it or really feel the warmth of it fresh out of the oven. Or I will feel its very hot outside, but wont feel the humidity. smell the roast beef sub, but not taste it. They have very loose random senses. The ones which I have complete control and complete senses is the real rarity which I have only have 3 of. Usually I get particially lucid dreams.

Sorry to butt in to your dream conversation but I have something for Dominicus (if he even bothers to read it) and any other christian who believes in the power of prayer.

Prayer works, I dont think so!!!!.

What they found was that the patients that knew they were being prayed for, actually got worse not better.

Edited to add - But as usual the last word was "but we've been praying a long time and we've seen prayer work, we know it works" LOL what a crock of B$, any excuse.


G

[edit on 16-11-2006 by shihulud]

Originally posted by shihulud
Sorry to butt in to your dream conversation but I have something for Dominicus (if he even bothers to read it) and any other christian who believes in the power of prayer.

Prayer works, I dont think so!!!!.

What they found was that the patients that knew they were being prayed for, actually got worse not better.

Edited to add - But as usual the last word was "but we've been praying a long time and we've seen prayer work, we know it works" LOL what a crock of B$, any excuse.


G

[edit on 16-11-2006 by shihulud]

if prayer worked i'm pretty sure the holocaust would have been over very quickly
and there would be a lot of snow days for the children

the idea of prayer is naive to say the least

The link I provided earlier shows that when measuring brain activity of those that were speaking tongues, there was nothing to measure. When-ever a person does anything, think, movement, use any of the senses, etc...the region of the brain that corresponds to what is taking place will light up for the researchers and their MRI/Cat scan equipment. Not so when speaking in tongues. NOTHING lights up in the brain when this is taking place, showing that this action is circumventing any brain activity at all. So if the Brain is not being used to speak in tongues (which by the way is something done to the human body directly through the power of God), doesnt this study show that there is more going on than mere flesh? It certainly looks that way to me and I don't know how else unbelievers can cover their behinds with this one


.......
Grimreaper797,
I have no idea what kind of enlightenment your talking about. What you described in your post was a comfort zone, not enlightenment. There are many people in the world that exist in comfort zones (politically, spiritually, physically, emotionally) The Enlightment that is true and that does not come from yourself, but is thrust upon you is one that takes place when following strict spiritual guidelines according to the Bible. This is something that knocks you to the floor and gives you access to unseen things. I can quickly discern from your post that you are confusing your state with the state of true Enlightenment. Those that are trully "there" speak certain words and certain ways so that others that are "there" can pick this up. Believe me, I've recieved quite a number of PM's from people that have discussed these things on deeper levels, but still there are very few who are "there" and I don't mean to sound like an arrogant pompous elect. Believe me, if it were up to me then everyone would be "there." If that was the case there would be no more wars and no more negativity.

Another note. Upon reaching "there" an individual begins to understand the importance by following the rules of the Bible and knowing just how important they are. Not from a scholarly perspective, but from a deeper enlightened wacred and holy perspective.

Let me ask you this grimrepeaer797. Where do you and everyone else on this board get your morals from. Where do morals come from and why do you follow them? Why do you chose the ones that you chose? Do you only chose the ones that work for you?

I know that many of ou are completely misinformed when thinkng about what encompasses the true term of enlightenment. I'm speaking of enlightenment that gives you super powers that a small percentage of people in this world posses or ever have a chance to experience. There are even deeper things I cannot speak on and other things that there are no words for.

Shiluhud,
I have covered prayer studies with you in previous posts. The study you linked in particular has many issues. First of all they had "mixed" results. Second of all they had people pray for patients at a distance using their first name and last name initial. That's terrible because all of the miraculaous recoveries in all the churches that I have seen documented as terminal and then miracualously healed come from perfoming an annointing with oil as is outline in JAMES 5. Third, they told these patients that they were being prayed for which can lead to complications in so many ways. Last and not leats, can you really say that this study was performed by "unbiased" individuals if the reults were "mixed"?????

Originally posted by dominicus
The link I provided earlier shows that when measuring brain activity of those that were speaking tongues, there was nothing to measure. When-ever a person does anything, think, movement, use any of the senses, etc...the region of the brain that corresponds to what is taking place will light up for the researchers and their MRI/Cat scan equipment. Not so when speaking in tongues. NOTHING lights up in the brain when this is taking place, showing that this action is circumventing any brain activity at all. So if the Brain is not being used to speak in tongues (which by the way is something done to the human body directly through the power of God), doesnt this study show that there is more going on than mere flesh? It certainly looks that way to me and I don't know how else unbelievers can cover their behinds with this one

Nah, that wasn't the case and it shows how you misunderstood the experiment. If there was "nothing to measure" they would be dead.

What they found was reduced activity in the left caudate, frontal cortex, and small section of left temporal lobe. The left caudate shows high activity when changing between languages, frontal cortex does lots of stuff, temporal lobe is associated with naming. There were increases in the amygdala and left parietal lobe. Others areas, no significant difference. This is only when comparing the singing condition to the babbling condition. The methodology was SPECT which is a bit crap compared to fMRI but fMRI is noisy.

What does this all mean? That brain activity is different between singing meaningful songs and babbling jibberish. No sign of god manipulating the brain - no experiment will tell you that.

The experiment needed an extra condition, participant non-tongue speaking babbling nonsense.

[edit on 17-11-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by dominicus
Shiluhud,
Last and not leats, can you really say that this study was performed by "unbiased" individuals if the reults were "mixed"?????

Yes. Why not? Scientists can get mixed results.

Originally posted by dominicus
Shiluhud,
I have covered prayer studies with you in previous posts. The study you linked in particular has many issues. First of all they had "mixed" results. Second of all they had people pray for patients at a distance using their first name and last name initial.

Wouldn't your god know who was being prayed for????

That's terrible because all of the miraculaous recoveries in all the churches that I have seen documented as terminal and then miracualously healed come from perfoming an annointing with oil as is outline in JAMES 5. Third, they told these patients that they were being prayed for which can lead to complications in so many ways. Last and not leats, can you really say that this study was performed by "unbiased" individuals if the reults were "mixed"?????

The results weren't that mixed!! Even in other studies there has been NO EVIDENCE that prayer works and BTW the 'unbiased' individuals are actually of christian origin so take the 'un' away. But then again science and religion dont mix eh? but what would have happened if the study had proved something???? christians would be singing the praises.

Did I ask you what denomination you were? (I've asked so many)

G

My denomination is Christian Mystic. I frequent many different churches knowing the truth to be the omni-presence of God and have yet to find one that is "perfect" for my tastes. By Christian Mystic I mean that I work hard to abide by and agree with the teachings of The early Christian desert fathers(google), christian hermits, monks, the earliest Christian mystics who were also the founding fathers of Christian Theology. Miester Eckhart, Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, Pascal, Jakob Boehme, and so forth. My denomination is one of the smallest minorities and there are perhaps only a few thousand that claim this title in the world today. This path is best characterized as purgative, illuminative, and unitive, corresponding to body, soul, and spirit through the precepts of the Bible and strict spiritual disciple, which only comes after the illuminitie stage when God gracously gives you a portion of his strength to overcome vices and habits, which to worldly people would be almost impossible to do, such as masterbation for males or ego death to use an example.

For most of you that have stuck with this thread, it looks like your hearts are hardened for what-ever reason. Your biased opnions of the Bible are poluting your being to access higher spiritual dimensions and other fascinating things. All I can say is that I garauntee you that if you gave it a try and reached the Enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, you would never go back and would leave all outside things alone. The one thing that those that are enlightened have in common is this; Enlightened individuals drop everything, old ways, materialistic ways, unholy relationships, sexual things (outside of marriage), and everything this world has to offer in the constant chase to keep getting those mind bending glimpses and interactions with God. To constantly thrive for higher levels of Enlightenment. Nothing else matters to this person except to thrive in a holy lifestyle, one which the person automatically tries to abide by all the rules in the Bible, even if that person is unaware of most of them. It is automatically done.

My friends, it is but a matter of time before science proves that some sort of Godly intelligence does exist behind everything in existance. That is the day I will laugh last because that will be the day that many of you will begin scampering for which is the right path and the truth is, many are false. There are many paths up a mountain some say. Others say that God is not a mountain.

Originally posted by dominicus
My friends, it is but a matter of time before science proves that some sort of Godly intelligence does exist behind everything in existance. That is the day I will laugh last because that will be the day that many of you will begin scampering for which is the right path and the truth is, many are false.

How is science gonna do that?

I think you may be waiting a very long time...

Originally posted by dominicus
My friends, it is but a matter of time before science proves that some sort of Godly intelligence does exist behind everything in existance. That is the day I will laugh last because that will be the day that many of you will begin scampering for which is the right path and the truth is, many are false.

That's just false hope.

But then again you are one to put your faith in 'anything'.

Originally posted by dominicus
My denomination is Christian Mystic.

So you are an unorthodox christian!!! A heretic to some christian denominations!! Nice

My friends, it is but a matter of time before science proves that some sort of Godly intelligence does exist behind everything in existance. That is the day I will laugh last because that will be the day that many of you will begin scampering for which is the right path and the truth is, many are false. There are many paths up a mountain some say. Others say that God is not a mountain.

You will be waiting a while, in fact you will never see the day that proof of god will out. And I can assure you I would not be scampering anywhere near that thing you call god if by some miracle ( pun intended) god was proven.


G

Yes, I am a heretic to the uninformed Christian when I proclaim my denomination. Then when I explain and show proof that most of the greatest names in Christianity were also Mystics, it tends to queit the person instantly. I also love the Orthodox ways because through those ways you reach mystic union with God, ultimately becomming a mystic.

You know the way God created everything has a scientific explanation, but we are decades, 100's maybe thousands of years away from such a date were science will come to show evidence that God exists, if we don't blow ourselves up by then. Some of the greatest Scientific minds believed in God, EinStein, Newton, Hawking, etc.

If I put my faith in "anything" as stated by shauny, then he obvious never read a single post of mine in this thread. I once specualted and doubted as you all did, until I gave it a genuine shot and put my all into humbly asking God to show show himself to me. He did, and I really feel bad for you guys that you do not know how awsome he his and how much he loves you rather you accept it or not. That's the reason I posted in the first place, was to discuss and let you know that if you seek you shall find.

Of course you can always spend the rest of your lives in the cycle of specualtion, until you find out that there is an afterlife, and then what??? Ooops !!!!

Look around you....... evolutionists huh? Is it hard to ask the question why aren't the "evolutionists" governing and running the world in an athiestic way?????

Originally posted by dominicus
Some of the greatest Scientific minds believed in God, EinStein, Newton, Hawking, etc.

I think you will find that Einstein was an atheist and Stephen Hawking certainly is. Newton was more into Arianism (a heretic just like you) than anything else.

If I put my faith in "anything" as stated by shauny, then he obvious never read a single post of mine in this thread. I once specualted and doubted as you all did, until I gave it a genuine shot and put my all into humbly asking God to show show himself to me. He did, and I really feel bad for you guys that you do not know how awsome he his and how much he loves you rather you accept it or not. That's the reason I posted in the first place, was to discuss and let you know that if you seek you shall find.

But what I keep saying is that you dont need god or religion to reach enlightment or to live a good moral and ethical life.

Of course you can always spend the rest of your lives in the cycle of specualtion, until you find out that there is an afterlife, and then what??? Ooops !!!!

I'll not be speculating at all, I'm living my life the way I want as I dont believe in an afterlife.

Look around you....... evolutionists huh? Is it hard to ask the question why aren't the "evolutionists" governing and running the world in an athiestic way?????

I think you'll find that most countries are run by religious people like that fruitbat George Bush - Tony Blair is a christian as well. Its very hard for atheists to get anything due to religious people with power.



G

Originally posted by dominicus
Grimreaper797,
I have no idea what kind of enlightenment your talking about.

the dictionary definition of it.

-highly educated; having extensive information or understanding; "an enlightened public"; "knowing instructors"; "a knowledgeable critic"; "a knowledgeable audience"
-having knowledge and spiritual insight;
-disillusioned: freed from illusion

What you described in your post was a comfort zone, not enlightenment.

If your uncomfortable with you enlightened self, your definately not enlightened. You can be comfortable and not enlightened, you can be comfortable and enlightened, but you cant be enlightened but not comfortable. Im comfortable because I am enlightened to my own truth.

There are many people in the world that exist in comfort zones (politically, spiritually, physically, emotionally)

yep, but that doesn't mean anything.

The Enlightment that is true and that does not come from yourself, but is thrust upon you is one that takes place when following strict spiritual guidelines according to the Bible.

funny I dont see that anywhere in the definition of the world. But now I understand why you look down upon me, because I claim I am WITHOUT the need of some book.

This is something that knocks you to the floor and gives you access to unseen things.

And you dont need a bible to find that. But you wouldn't understand that because your "enlightened". Ironic.

I can quickly discern from your post that you are confusing your state with the state of true Enlightenment.

and I can quickly discern from your post your some one who looks down on others like they are less then you when they dont strictly follow the bible. Im sorry but you have little clue what your talking about.

When you can understand your own logic your sane, when you can understand others logic, you become comfortable and understanding. When you find out the reason why you need to understand the logic of others, you become enlightened. It has nothing to do with god or the bible, and to think it does is simply close mindedness.

Those that are trully "there" speak certain words and certain ways so that others that are "there" can pick this up. Believe me, I've recieved quite a number of PM's from people that have discussed these things on deeper levels, but still there are very few who are "there" and I don't mean to sound like an arrogant pompous elect.

man listen to yourself. Its hardly worth responding to. Get off your high horse. There is one difference between you and me, you look at people like they are less enlightened then you, I look at every person like there is a specific way they can further enlighten me. Thats the real difference, and you are sounding like an arrogant pompous because quite frankly, thus far, you are one.

Believe me, if it were up to me then everyone would be "there." If that was the case there would be no more wars and no more negativity.

And when there was no more bad things in this world, you would take away the one reason its better then heaven, that bad things happen occassionally. Until you understand WHY bad things and good things TOGETHER are what make life so great, you simply cant understand where Im coming from. What you should do is try to take yourself out of your own shoes, if thats possible.

Another note. Upon reaching "there" an individual begins to understand the importance by following the rules of the Bible and knowing just how important they are. Not from a scholarly perspective, but from a deeper enlightened wacred and holy perspective.

All I can say is the bible isn't the way to enlightenment. If you believe so, go right on believing that, but its just your own little false prophets. None of those were written by jesus, just a bunch of people who claimed they knew the word of the lord.

You dont have the guts to look inside and see the true you, so you emulate what a book tells you to do. Thats not enlightened, thats afraid.

Let me ask you this grimrepeaer797. Where do you and everyone else on this board get your morals from. Where do morals come from and why do you follow them? Why do you chose the ones that you chose? Do you only chose the ones that work for you?

I get my morals from myself, I dont know about everyone else. My morals come from within me, and I follow them because they are the best possible choice I can make given the information I have. I choose the ones I choose because I look at the situation, everything I know about it, then choose what feels like its more logical. Why would I kill a man for no reason? I wouldn't. Would I kill a man with a gun firing on innocent people looking to kill them, yes.

Bible doesn't do that. Bible was man made because it has man made logic. It makes a black and white picture for one that can only be seen with color. We can never make the best choice 100% of the time, but we can always make the right choice when we follow what we believe we should do.

Most people dont realize that maybe you were put here so that some where in your life you would end up killing a certain person. Some ones "wrong and evil" action may benefit the world for generations. That isn't luck or god fighting the evil by interfering, it is just the fact that bad things can lead to good things, so we should never see the bad things as all bad. Even the bad can bring good so long as we are determind to see the better side of the situation at had. So long as we look at things in the right mindset, even the wrong that one man makes can benefit all so long as we work toward it.

I know that many of ou are completely misinformed when thinkng about what encompasses the true term of enlightenment.

you yourself are completely misinformed on what enlightenment means. It means understanding, which you have little of. You dont understand or open your mind to much, so you are not enlightened. You may be a follower of the bible, but you are not enlightened, not by definition at least.

I'm speaking of enlightenment that gives you super powers that a small percentage of people in this world posses or ever have a chance to experience.

thats not enlightenment, thats your own little made up definition to say that you are above us. You have "super powers" that a bunch of other people dont have and wont have. You are too high on your high horse to ever get down.

There are even deeper things I cannot speak on and other things that there are no words for.

All I can say is that you have a long way to go obviously, seeing how little you actually understand in reality.

Also if it were proven tomorrow that everything you said was correct, my actions would change NONE. I believe Im doing exactly what Im suppose to because the bible to me is not MY will or MY path. It was the person who wrote it path.

Reaper,
I look down on nobody. The enlightenment I refer to is a spiritual enlightenment. The only way I see my debaters as, is individuals that do not know true spiritual enlightenment. If you reach spiritual Enlightenment, then you know God exists and have a first hand account of his awsomeness and holiness all within yourself.

Perhaps one can reach this enlightenment without knowing anything about the Bible, but then when this person finds the Bible at a later date, would definately atribute the book to be spiritual truth, and would still give Christ his due title as savior/son of God.

This book has many authors, all of which were spiritually enlightened and directed by God to write the books that make up the Bible. It is not "just some dudes" who wrote.....

I think the athiesm outlook you all conform to is a young aspect of reality that you chose to experience. I'm sure many of you will change your minds about this by the time you reach an old age as I have personally known a few athiests that have since changed their minds.

_____
Again for reaper, I don't look down on you or anybody else on this board. I am bold when speaking of the subject of God because it is my only subject that I can justifiaby be bold in. Every other subject I remain as humble pie. Just because I have experienced "spirirtual enlightenment" does not make me better than you nor anyone else in all of existance. It is merely that I know of something that you and many others know not, and I am bold in praising God and getting this message across that there are realities such as this. You thinking that I think of myself higher than you is your false presumption.

Truth is, I would do anything to get all of you to this spiritual enlightenment reality, since I now know that a time will come in the future where everyone will be in this reality while living on this ball of dirt. A time will come where not a single athiest will be in all of existance. There will be those that shun and want nothing to do with God, but will still know that he is there.

My reality is that I learn from all things and see that God is in all things whether people know this or not. I embrace and Love all people even those that may hate me and make their uneducated presumtions about my bold Godly statements.

Reaper,
Again your long reply post is to me unfounded. If your morals come from within yourself based on the information you have around you, then that means that you have no moral foundations at all. You simply go by what-ever information you have around you. So if you were raised with thieves or killers, that would be your information around you. If you were in Germany in the 40's, a good percentage says you'd be a Natzi.

Again God directed people to write the Bible. Is it impossible for God to do such a thing? Of course not.

This highhorse you speak of that I am presummably on is one that comes with humbleness and humlity, washing other peoples feet, and giving away my lunch to some-one who needs it more than me...going the rest of the day at work starving. Self sacrifice and loving complete strangers even if they don't say "hi" back. Automatically forgiving some-one if they steal from me or spit in my face. This is my reality and it is one that exists for anyone who wishes to seek it out. It is the automatic way of acting/reacting upon reaching spiritual enlightenment.

My motivation to speak of my experiences with spiritual realms and powers that came from following the Bible, is to inform others to work on getting "there." Since this is my motivation, where is the pompousness in that because nobody will find any in that.

I'm saying that life sucks until you taste spiritual enlightenment which is given freely to anyone who asks. If you would have sat down with me in person and given me an hour of your time, you would see how much compassion I have for you and that I forgive you for your reply post in which you proclaim arrogance. If you sat down with me for one hour you would sense that I do infact speak truth and you would be moved to go back and erase your allegations.

Good and Evil exist because this is the realm we live in. We need both to distinguish each other so to know each one separately. But in Godly spiritual realms, there is only good and God within these realms is more addictive than anything in existance.

Reaper my friend, if you were trully spiritually enlightened, you would have never spoken of me what you have indeed spoken. Even though I know your wrong, it is o.k for you to be so and I accept it and move on knowing that I love you and I wish you would try your hardest to taste of these realms that I speak of.

Funny thing is that those that are opposed of the Bible are the only accusers of arrogance towards me, preachers/pastors, or any other mystics. I have never gotten any of these remarks from people who believe in God of any relgious order or even in educational establishments such as duscussing these terms with college professors.

There is a thin line between boldness and arrogance. The boldness I proclam comes with sharing, whereas there is no such thing as sharing with arrogance. One of the differences between you and I, besides spiritual enlightenment, is that you presume and I embrace.