The "Phoenix Lights" and real aliens?

if they were on parachute's i would imagine to see some sort
of swaying...

Originally posted by Schaden
When they triangulated the positions from the multiple video sources, it appeared the lights were over the city. Not behind South Mountain or anywhere else.
Wouldn't the parachutes have been found ?

They were absolutely not over the city, as shown on several TV shows, when overlaid footage from daylight at same positioning, and stabilization of the footage, they are clearly seen dissapearing by being blocked out by the mountain. Not over the city.

Originally posted by Schaden
Additionally, a laboratory performed a spectroscoptic analysis on the lights and they were not of the same color as the type of flares used by the AF.

I believe youre talking about Village Labs and Dilettoso. The same man who authenticated the Meier photos and film. That aside, such analysis isnt physically possible. It's like trying to test a portrait of yourself for your DNA. The image captured on any cam is regulated by the cam's chip trying to relate data onto tape to convey what it's seeing. Every cam will relate it differently, and that data isnt what spectral analysis is...it's only what the cam captures, and it's not consistent, nor does it accurately convey spectrum data. The idea that spectral analysis can be done on video tape is not only absurd but physically impossible. What Dilettoso does is draw a line thru a histogram, and extracting a brightness profile, and thats all. It has nothing to do with spatial frequency.

Originally posted by Schaden
What about Doctor Kitei's eyewitness account of multiple light "orbs" hovering less than 100 feet off her back patio ? Is she just lying ?

I have no idea what she saw. There is no visual record of such an event by her of lights at that proximity.

Originally posted by tribaltrip
if they were on parachute's i would imagine to see some sort
of swaying...

In the dark from miles away? I doubt it.

Originally posted by tayzer
Flares? U got to be kinding me...I saw this on the news a few years back and the lights where at stand still in the air. There were hundreds of witnesses that claim the lights were inert in the sky for a really long time. I don't know what they were, but to say they were flares you must be smoking crack!

Video taped evidence says they were never at a stand still. They were always in a slow state of decline into the horizon. Take a grab from the beginning and one from the end. Line up references and see for yourself. Make sure the video is not 30 seconds...but of decent length of the event.

In the DVD,"Out of the Blue", several witnesses described seeing this craft fly at a very low altitude, directly over their heads and neighborhoods. Most said it was a giant structure that blocked out the stars. Another witness, a trucker, claimed to have seen two seperate smaller crafts hovering above Luke Airforce base. He said he watched as Luke dispatched two fighter jets with full afterburners on to try and intercept them. He said the smaller craft shot off in the blink of an eye and left our jets looking like they were literally standing still.

[edit on 20-8-2006 by DimensionalDetective]

Originally posted by Access Denied

Originally posted by jritzmann
Of course our end result is a bad video, and people claimign to have seen structured craft.

You mean this video?

UFO Phoenix Lights CNN - Google Video

I can see how people might think that was a huge triangular shaped craft over the city.

We really dont have any effective way to say the two events arent connected...so their plan essentially worked for a captured data point of view.

I'm confused, so do you support the theory (?) that were actually two separate events? If so, what exactly are you basing that on?

Thanks.

Yeah thats the video of the flares. Yes I do so far support the idea of 2 events. I'm basing that on reports of structured objects seen earlier that night, by more then a few witnesses, and there is as I said one video tape of that object. That particular one bears no resemblance of the flares seen later, other then it's percieved V shape..

I think there are three separate incidents labeled "Phoenix Lights"
1) The Phoenix Lights as disputed flare drops March 13 1997
2) Dr. Kitei's orbs
3) The triangular craft that flew over Arizona, roughly north to south, and maybe was seen in Las Vegas, too, that night, March 13 1997

I think the Kitei orbs were first seen in 1995.

The incidents in 1997 on the same night were the row of lights over the mountains and the craft. The lights are usually what's now called the Phoenix Lights, and there may be no mention of the craft that night. By calling the row of lights the Phoenix Lights and saying they were flares and therefore case is closed does nothing but detract from the other event that night.

Personally, I'll buy the "lights as flares" for an explanation of the row of lights. But the other event, the craft, has not been "explained" so easily, having been said to be airplanes flying in formation, a stealth blimp, hallucinations, etc

I remember when this 1997 event broke in the news, but it was not the lights I remember breaking first. It was the accounts of a black triangular craft being spotted by people starting in northern Arizona, heading southward, eventually being seen over Phoenix! The row of lights was interesting, but it was NOT the main event that night.

Here's a news article from that time. Scroll down to bottom of page and find "Arizonans say the truth about UFO is out there"
USA Today
by Ricard Price
www.freedomofinfo.org...

Originally posted by porsche2006


How many of you actually believe that these Phoenix Lights were actual aliencrafts? I do.

Well, living in Phoenix, and actually having seen the "Phoenix Lights" that night, I can tell you that it looked like nothing other than planes flying in formation. Luke Airforce Base is right here, you know.

The only thing different from these lights and similar lights that are common place in the Phoenix night sky is that the USAF denied it was their activity, probably because it was "classified" for who knows why.

Dr. Bruce Maccabee also put the events of March 13, 1997 into two categories

(NOTE: the following analysis of March 13, 1997 sightings over Phoenix refers to the sightings by a few people of lights at about 10 PM. An earlier sighting by hundreds of people around 8:30 PM of a dark triangular object that blocked the stars was a UFO. It is not the subject of this analysis.)

brumac.8k.com...

In the above report, he lends credence to the row of lights in video as flares. The famous Phoenix Lights video referred to in the original post by Porsche is NOT the craft seen over northern Arizona (and possibly Las Vegas area) and Phoenix.

The debunking of the row of lights video does not debunk the craft event.

Here's something i found pretty interesting about this. Has anyone heard of Steven Greers meditation in which he kind of calls to extraterrestrials?

The reason I ask is because he was in Pheonix when this all happened. really close to it actually. I heard him talk about it on coast to coast. i just thought that was quite the coincidence.

Thanks for the link. After reading that article I think I understand the confusion a little better. It sounds to me like there was most likely only one event that night and the reports of a black triangular craft (all apparently with lights) were based on mistaken/exaggerated extrapolation of what the light formation (most likely flares) represented and the different vantage point/distances the various witnesses observed it from. Generally speaking, 10 people will describe the exact same event 10 different ways. Ask any cop or detective.

I imagine the first reports you heard were made before the amateur video surfaced and was broadcast and that is the “source” of the “two different” events. Seeing the video on TV likely affected subsequent eyewitness reports/interpretations. Anyway, that’s just my opinion based on everything I’ve seen so far

This has actually been my opinion on it for some time, especially after seeing the specials illustrating the flares explanation and the video tape. However, I'm holding off forming a conclusion on the case, as I'm still investigating the angles, and the data of the TWO sightings. Were there two events, or are people just confusing the times? Can't say yet.

Assuming the event in the video was flares though (and this seems likely, i.e. illumination flares), then why wouldn't the military come right out and admit this up front? Why the subterfuge.... That too, is interesting.

Jritzman, you said there was video of the earlier sighting? I must have missed this so far, at least at this stage of the investigation. Do you have a link? I haven't read the entire thread yet. Thanks.

[edit on 25-8-2006 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok
Jritzman, you said there was video of the earlier sighting? I must have missed this so far, at least at this stage of the investigation. Do you have a link? I haven't read the entire thread yet. Thanks.
[edit on 25-8-2006 by Gazrok]

According to the Travel Channel's Phoenix UFO show a couple weeks ago there is. I have found no link for it anywhwere on the net. It was a fairly grainy, but it also clearly wasnt the flare incident seen for another angle.

the 'phoenix lights' happened on the 13th of the month

the Marian Apparitions at Lourdes happened on the 13th of of the month
for several months.
...long enough for the famous '3 secrets' to be told to the kids

maybe some people engineered this sighting sequence to get mixed in with
the number '13' &/or another famous episode....

keep in mind that '13' is associated with the letter 'M' (as in Marijuana)
bad luck, and other distracting superstitions...

March 13th may have been an advantageous date selected by disinfo psyops
because there is a built in bias...which may lead to unbelieveabilty of the events
that were witnessed by the public (which may be an intragel part of the experiment ! )

~~

appreciate the copy & the links Access Denied provided...

on the surface the info & analysis seems logical, linear, plausable

but in the end, i regard the info as "back-fill",
you know...all that junk & debis filled material which has enough volume
to fill the holes/gaps of a story which had engaged the public, i.e. Phoenix Lights

i personally do not have the passionate desire to disprove these plausable explainations. But I bring to your (& everyone) attention that;

if one views the pretty famous phoenix lights video, it seems apparent that the video was taken at Papago Park, or some place very close by,
taking the Papago Park vantage point & then deducing the buildings which are
in the video & below the (line?- or formation?) of lights...

it appears to my cursery analysis, that the 'object' was about 45 degrees further north than what flares from the Barry M Goldwater Air Force Range explaination tries to suggest.

-> if some one will investigate, the object (phoenix lights) is more accurately
in that line-of-sight direction that passes thru Avondale->Buckeye->Palo Verde !
(get a Map Quest.com map of Arizona & see for yourselves)

with the video's observation point being in Papago Park,
the phoenix lights appear at about 8:45 on a clock's face

with the video's observation point being Papago Park,
the direction of the BMGoldwater Bombing Range is close to 7:00 on a clock's face

which is about 51 degrees away from making the flares over a bombing range, dropped under 6,000 ft altitude and many miles away, behind a mountain ...
a credible or plausable explaination.

~~~~~~~~~

as far as following I-17 from Prescott, [your second link & external source]

there were updated sightings of a 'triangle' from NV & into AZ in the AM hours,
sightings from Kingman, Verde Valley, Prescott, even Wickenburg...

about late afternoon/evening, reports that the triangle passed over Camelback Mountain, then followed IndianSchoolRoad, & Encanto Park, until moving southward over Chandler, CasaGrande & even Tuscon in the early night sky

-> then suddenly reappearing in the form of a sequence of stable lights in the night sky, very near Phoenix, but in the general direction of PaloVerde nuclear plant not the Barry M Goldwater AirForce bombing Range

the above is: 'imho'

??later dropping of flares, to try & reenact the 13 March event, was most likely not in the regular ordinance drop zones of the bombing range...
the recreation was also most likely staged to get a max effect by dropping flares higher & closer to Phoenix...
my gut feeling, i have no supporting evidence, or any desire to present the geometry, vectors, and all that work to prove that the gov't explainations are just so much 'back-fill'

see ya

Here's another angle on the triangle

"What I believe happened was a very large experimental aircraft took off from either White Sands or the SWC on a test flight, got into trouble and hadto make an emergency landing. "The closest Air Force Base the pilot could turn to that could accommodate a craft of it's size was Davis-Monthan AFB,south of Tucson,so he took the same route the pilots from there routinely used,hoping he wouldn't draw attention to himself. "Unfortunately,he drew alto of attention to himself and now thousands of people think he's ET."

www.ufodigest.com...