God also woman?

Originally posted by spanishcaravan
I get what you're sayig queenannie. I feel better knowing at least 1 person understood what i was gettin across.

Sometimes that is all we need, at least for that time, huh?

Originally posted by Osbert
Esoteric teacher

With the Elohim bit you are repeating what I said about three posts above...

Sorry, missed it.

The rest of your comments are too deep for me, are you saying we should look like monkeys?

No, I'm saying consider the possibilities. I'm saying ask the right questions.

What are you talking about gays for? Did anybody mention gays?

No one mentioned gays. I was just pointing out that it is widely believed that God is a masculine. And if God is a masculine, would it not be odd he would create a perfect man first, and then a flawed female second who decided to eat the fruit?

Hello, is there anybody there?

Yep. Anybody is there.

It was you on the weed, not Spanishcaravan.

I hope not, could effect my job as Fire Alarm Operator/911 Dispatcher at Nellis AFB, and my 8+ year career.

Truly I cannot fathom what you are saying, is there some other way perhaps to tell it without mentioning 18.000.000.000. or 1/9000, please make allowances for my ignorance.

Sure. I am saying the mathematical probability that other worldly life has visited Earth is over 99%, where as the mathematical probability that other worldly life has not visited Earth is less than 1%.

If I was God, I'd probably create the perfect man first. I mean, it's a hell of a lot easier to spend a day with a guy than with a girl. No whining, no ranting, no "do you love me?" or any of the crap. Just tons of fun. Its not like God was going to bang Eve.

Anyway, your analogy is suggesting God has a human personality, and so your arguement is flawed.

That crap about the 99% chance of us being visited by intelligent lifeforms not from Earth is also flawed. The chances of intelligent life existing in this Universe is higher than the chances of there being just us. However, the universe is so damn large that its impossible using conventional science. If you're just going out on a limb and creating bs statistics, then yes, you are right.

99% chance that God really is a 200' tall old guy with a white beard and a white robe.
1% chance that God really is a Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[edit on 13-8-2006 by Akraites]

Again, God is Spirit, therefore He is neither male nor female in gender. He takes on a "male" role within Scripture but this is again more figurative....as in it helps us discern or better, describe God.

Adam and Eve were both created, the male first BUT this does not mean that the male is to be above or lord over the female. Notice God created Eve or woman, from the SIDE of Adam or the male. This indicates that the male and female are to be side by side in life. The male is to take his wife unto his side, "and the two shall become one flesh".

Now as for the difference in names for God, "Elohim", "Yahweh" and "Lord"....well each name signifies how God is interacting with His people....how He is being portrayed within Scripture.

Elohim is found when Scripture speaks of God interacting on the material level, as in creation itself.

Yahweh is used to describe the more personal, one on one, relationship that God has with His creation. To see this we can read from Psalm 19 where it uses the singular form, if memory serves me correctly, "Elohim" (plural is used when describing false gods) in the first part as it describes Gods creation and His interaction within it. Then in verse 7 or 8 the subject switches to the "Law of the Lord" and because it is now on a personal level the name "Yahweh" is used.

To further stress this we can turn to Exodus 6:3 where God Himself pretty much explains this.

Ex 6:3
3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.
NASU

So to the early fathers God was known to them as "Elohim" (El Shadday), even though they also knew the name "Yahweh", it wasn't until Moses time that God revealed Himself (more fully in nature) as "Yahweh".

You do know the early war god was an alien with lasers right?

Pew pew!

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Sure. I am saying the mathematical probability that other worldly life has visited Earth is over 99%, where as the mathematical probability that other worldly life has not visited Earth is less than 1%.

I will reflect on what you are saying, although I have an instinctive distrust of statistics: If I eat a nice, succulent chicken and you stand there watching me, according to statistics we have had half each..

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Again, God is Spirit, therefore He is neither male nor female in gender. He takes on a "male" role within Scripture but this is again more figurative....as in it helps us discern or better, describe God.

Adam and Eve were both created, the male first BUT this does not mean that the male is to be above or lord over the female. Notice God created Eve or woman, from the SIDE of Adam or the male. This indicates that the male and female are to be side by side in life. The male is to take his wife unto his side, "and the two shall become one flesh".

Now as for the difference in names for God, "Elohim", "Yahweh" and "Lord"....well each name signifies how God is interacting with His people....how He is being portrayed within Scripture.

Elohim is found when Scripture speaks of God interacting on the material level, as in creation itself.

Yahweh is used to describe the more personal, one on one, relationship that God has with His creation. To see this we can read from Psalm 19 where it uses the singular form, if memory serves me correctly, "Elohim" (plural is used when describing false gods) in the first part as it describes Gods creation and His interaction within it. Then in verse 7 or 8 the subject switches to the "Law of the Lord" and because it is now on a personal level the name "Yahweh" is used.

To further stress this we can turn to Exodus 6:3 where God Himself pretty much explains this.

Ex 6:3
3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.
NASU

So to the early fathers God was known to them as "Elohim" (El Shadday), even though they also knew the name "Yahweh", it wasn't until Moses time that God revealed Himself (more fully in nature) as "Yahweh".

Bible quoting is counter productive because the Bible often contradicts itself, sure proof that it was written by a number of Rabbis rather one single source.

Take this quote for instance:

"I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16)

In Isaiah 14:12, St. Jerome, translated the Hebrew "morning star" into the Latin term "Lucifer" (light bearer), a name commonly ascribed to Satan by Christians, and represents the fallen star, an ancient symbol for the fallen or evil one. The mourning star actually appears as the planet Venus, the brightest "star" in the sky (but the ancients did not know about planets). Venus always appears low on the horizon, thus it looked like a fallen star (fallen angel) to the believers.

I can quote many more but I am already boring myself....

The Children of the Book are the only ones that cling to the unbalanced beliefs
of a Male only deity. Every other that I have any knowledge of ( and most of the Book beliefs at one time or another) Have long traditions of male and Female Deities.

Wonder why the world is so FUBAR? could it be the 2,000 years+ of the male God
rule ( that would be the - negative charge, chaos).

Hypostasis of the Arcons,

[ because of his] power and his ignorance [and his arrogance]
he said..., " It is I who am God; there is none [other apart from
me]." When he said this he sinned against [the Entirety]. And
a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power,
saying, " You are mistaken, Samael," which means " god of the blind"


On the Origin of the World
... he boasted continually, saying to (the angels)... I am God, no other
one exists except me." But When he said these things, he sinned
against all of the immortal ones... when Faithsaw the impiety of the chief ruler,
she was angry.... she said, "You err, Samael (blind god)." An enlightened,
immortal humanity exists before you.


Secret Book of John

in his madness ... he said, "I am God and there is no other God beside me,"
for he is ignorant of ... the place from which he had come.... And when he saw
the creation which surrounds him and the multitudes of angels around him
which had come forth from him, he said to them, " I am a jelous God, and there
is no other God beside me." But by announcing this he indicatedto the angels that
another God does exist; for if there were no other one, of whom would he be
jealous?

I was sent forth from the Power.
I am the honoured one and the scorned one.
I am the holy one and the whore.
I am the mother and the daughter.
I am called Sophia by the Greeks and Gnosis by the foreigners.
Iam the one whose image is great in Egypt,
and the one who has no image among the foreigners.

The Goddess, Perfect Consciousness

I mean, it's a hell of a lot easier to spend a day with a guy than with a girl. No whining, no ranting, no "do you love me?" or any of the crap.

perhaps when you get older and begin to meet WOMEN ( this does of course assume
that you have reached the same level of maturity and emotional understanding) you will
meet as I did the Woman to share your life with. We have been known to spend
days just enjoying the peace and quiet of Sky Father and Earth Mother.

(but the ancients did not know about planets).

at least according to modern authorities. It is amazing that with each discovery we make we discover how much more they knew than we thought they did. Kinda like
" the older I get the smarter my Parents get."

Originally posted by Akraites

That crap about the 99% chance of us being visited by intelligent lifeforms not from Earth is also flawed. The chances of intelligent life existing in this Universe is higher than the chances of there being just us. However, the universe is so damn large that its impossible using conventional science. If you're just going out on a limb and creating bs statistics, then yes, you are right.

bs statistics, huh?

The universe was 12 billion years old before the sun we rotate around even existed.

In 67 years man went from horse-drawn carriages to the moon.

Not only will i stand by my bs statistics, i'll go even further to say that there is a 100% chance that Earth has been visited prior to your existance.

Have a nice day.



[edit on 14-8-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Again, God is Spirit, therefore He is neither male nor female in gender. He takes on a "male" role within Scripture but this is again more figurative....as in it helps us discern or better, describe God.

So to the early fathers God was known to them as "Elohim" (El Shadday), even though they also knew the name "Yahweh", it wasn't until Moses time that God revealed Himself (more fully in nature) as "Yahweh".

You say that God is a spirit, than you say he reveals Himself, here's the very passages relating to Moses:

"And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend..." (Exodus 33:11)

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: and I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts; but my face shall not be seen." (Exodus 33:20-23)


Surely if Moses had seen God's back parts and face to face he would have made a description, God always appears to be male, do you not find that a bit strange, a bit chauvinistic?

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by Akraites

That crap about the 99% chance of us being visited by intelligent lifeforms not from Earth is also flawed. The chances of intelligent life existing in this Universe is higher than the chances of there being just us. However, the universe is so damn large that its impossible using conventional science. If you're just going out on a limb and creating bs statistics, then yes, you are right.

bs statistics, huh?

The universe was 12 billion years old before the sun we rotate around even existed.

In 67 years man went from horse-drawn carriages to the moon.

Not only will i stand by my bs statistics, i'll go even further to say that there is a 100% chance that Earth has been visited prior to your existance.

Have a nice day.



[edit on 14-8-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Obviously since you said it, it's true. Since you chose to use mathematics as your foundation, you're still wrong. The Universe is said to be 13-14 billion years old. That said, our sun is like 6 billion years old. Even if beings had evolved millions or billions (for you people who like to think of humans as inferior), they would not have survived long enough to get here.

Now, I believe we've been visited and all that good stuff, but I don't believe anyone who visits us HAS to be a civilization thats lasted for millions of years. All it takes is one brilliant mind to make science take a giant leap forward. Even then, it doesn't mean it's guaranteed that every civilization other than humans can bend the laws of physics and travel through the universe to specifically find Earth. Space if far too large to be able to say "Hmm. I have an idea. Let's randomly point at a spot and hope we find a planet capable of sustaining sentient life."

So again, if you're using mathematics or astronomy to support your bs statistics, you're wrong.

Have a nice day, sunshine.


[edit on 14-8-2006 by Akraites]

I think trouble arises when we try to force "God" into a form that humans try to physically identify. The creator/deconstructor roles can be classified as female/male, and in other traditions they have, but look at it in a modernistic way. The female is the one which gives birth; the creator. When there is destruction to be done, for example by soldiers, it is mostly the male that is predominant; this is the deconstructor. You must have both. A beginning and an end. Light and dark (yin and yang). So there are masculine and feminine dynamics of what we call God, but they are essential in their unity to make up the whole.

Wonderful topic, Osbert!

Think of it this way. Can you visualize eternity in your mind? I know i cant. But most of us can visualize being somewhere for 5,10,30 years. But if you really try to visualize being somewhere for eternity your mind has a sort of wall that you cant see past. If this is you,then trying to transform god into something we humans can understand is just as futile as the above text. Our minds in the state they are in now just cant handle something on that level yet.

--OSBERT,no offense taken.My post wasnt referring to you,and i laughed at your post btw.thought it was funny.

I broke the wall. God is 200 feet tall, wears a white robe and has a long flowing white beard a.k.a. Gandalf the White.

god is all. god is woman, and god is man. he is caring ,eternally loving, he forgives, just like a woman.
god is also , destructive, powerful( not that a woman isnt, but you know what i mean) and likes for us to worship only him. like a man.

i think the reason that they didnt write the correct translation of "elohim" is: think about the people who did the translation. think about who finalized it. people who wanted to give women No Power, at all.

they didnt want us to think that women were made in his image too. women are below men, women have no power.

if women would have been thought of as equals that could have messed up alot of stuff for the men in those days.

women are needed just as much as men. and god knows that, that why we are here.
im not a feminist or anything, but men and women go together,. why not beleive that god is both woman and man. the two opposites that create the most beautiful and wonderful energy on earth. LOVE ... and thats what god is.. energy and love


im out
-mindtrip02

oh, and esoteric teacher... i totally agree with what you are saying,


im out
-mindtrip02

There's no point in talking about elohim unless you're Jewish. The Jewish God and Jesus's God are completely different.

and how are they different. they are both the god of abraham, correct?

please tell me how they differ.

im out
-mindtrip02

Originally posted by mindtrip02

i think the reason that they didnt write the correct translation of "elohim" is: think about the people who did the translation. think about who finalized it. people who wanted to give women No Power, at all.

they didnt want us to think that women were made in his image too. women are below men, women have no power.

if women would have been thought of as equals that could have messed up alot of stuff for the men in those days.

I appreciate what you are saying, Mindtrip but there is no reason to keep the incorrect translation going. We are grown up now and can make our own mind up.

It is this kind of lie from priests that, for example, fires the Islamic fanaticism; we must be given the truth from people who are in responsible positions and have our trust.

i agree. i think the bible should be re-translated into the real translations. no changing the way it was originally written just so it sounds better to certain people. i wish i had the actual hebrew bible ( and that i spoke hebrew to understand it)
thats the only thing that i hate about reading the bible. i never know if that is exactly the way that things are supposed to be said , or done.
also there was alot left out. so who really knows if we are missing some really important stuff that we are supposed to be doing.?

im out
-mindtrip02

[edit on 15-8-2006 by mindtrip02]