What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

Originally posted by donwhite
there are now 100 Americans worth more than $1 Billoin. Thank you God.

The readings at mass this past Sunday were about how it's easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

hmmm .... just thinking about that ...

posted by FlyersFan

The readings at mass this past Sunday were about how it's easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. hmmm .... just thinking about that ...

I attended mass Tuesday, near Williston, FL, near to Gainesville, near to Jacksonville. The subject was "better to be clean inside than to be clean outside." The priest is from Mexico and has lived here 9 years. I assume he has a Green Card? I said to my fellow attendee, “he could be pope in 20 years with a bit of luck.”

posted by centurion1211

OMT, if you find someone disagreeing with you, how about skipping the derogatory labels and name calling. Isn't that what you claim to be fighting against?

Bad Names? Hmm. I admit I have called Bush43 and the Gang of Four bad names, but they have done bad things. I threatened to call Semper Whimper that was only a threat, and certainly has not alarmed him or her enough to reply. But frankly, if you are not a Republican, a millionaire or employed by Halliburon, I deny I have called you a bad name!

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by donwhite

I’m certainly short on sympathy for Semper. I think it is a good thing for white people to get some bad treatment once in a while if and I say if, they are aware that is the kind of treatment blacks still get from time to time but worse, had to live with forever.

Wow I hadn't noticed that.
Do you think I deserved all my racial attacks Don? Where would you draw the line? Namecalling? Assault? Pack rape? At what point does it go from being 'educational' to being callous? Do you really believe that blacks have lived with it forever? Please read up on Irish history.. actually world history. 'Blacks' haven't had in any worse than any other race.. American segregation, lynching and slavery is just very recent in comparison.. yet WWII is even more recent. As someone so ademently pointed out.. the Jews are a white race. If you are going to believe in the 'eye for an eye' thing.. shouldn't a couple of million whites being gassed even things out for you?

As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."

Aren't the people you would want to reach the ones that are not already aware of the situation?

I appreciate what you are saying.. but the 'racial resentment' after a couple of hundred posts on this subject is still very strong. There will always be people who cannot get beyond categorising people by things like skin colour. I think many actually like there being an "Us and them".. perhaps it's primal trait leftover from clan days which helps people identify enemies.

Originally posted by riley
As Ghandi said "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."

This is perfect. I hadn't heard it before, but I will use it to fight hyprocrisy from now on. Thanks!

... perhaps it's primal trait leftover from clan days which helps people identify enemies.

Yes, I commented on this exact common sense 'theory' a little earlier in this thread.

[edit on 10/19/2006 by centurion1211]

posted by riley

Wow. Do you think I deserved all my racial attacks Don? Where would you draw the line? Name calling? Assault? At what point does it go from being 'educational' to being callous? Do you really believe that blacks have lived with it forever? Please read up on Irish history . . actually world history. 'Blacks' haven't had it any worse than any other race . . [Edited by Don W]

Having been born and raised in the South (Kentucky) I am not familiar with the prejudices towards people of Irish descent in America. There were few Irish in Kentucky. I actually thought that had passed into history by the late 1940s. I have some knowledge of the English treatment of the Irish. I am of English descent and still feel a favorable affinity towards England and the English. The first Queen Elizabeth is high on my list of demigods. Which is not to say I don't hold her namesake in high regard, too. The Irish were victims of the Wars of Religion. Sorry about that. You may celebrate St. Patrick’s Day, but I remember Guy Fawkes Day.

I disagree that American blacks have suffered no more than others. Even the Irish were “free” to leave the Emerald Isle. Some runaway slaves had the fore-part of their right foot chopped off to discourage another flight. As I mentioned above, I know of no discrimination towards persons of Irish descent in 2006, but I wouldn’t have to drive 5 minutes (in any direction) to find plain evidence of discrimination based on race in Jacksonville. And almost anywhere in America. And I’ve heard retired Gen. Powell say he has been insulted even as Secretary of State. Every black knows every day he or she is likely to suffer humiliation. And gratuitous insults.

As someone so adamantly pointed out the Jews are a white race. If you are going to believe in the 'eye for an eye' thing shouldn't a couple of million whites being gassed to even things out for you?

I never said I believed in the “eye for an eye” although I might remind you that is prescribed in the Holy Bible. As for gassing, there were 3 million other-than-Jews gassed under the Nazis. But I don’t want to see anyone gassed any more than I want to see 100 children die every day in Darfur. There are 1000s of people at high risk of death every day in Africa. I do hope we don’t spend too much time debating what to do.

Aren't the people you would want to reach the ones that are not already aware of the situation?

Wow! There are a lot of negatives in that sentence. But I do think I know your question. YES! But I’m of the opinion that the rest of us - including me - need to be refreshed from time to time to loosely paraphrase T Jefferson. It’s easy for a sheltered white person who deals mainly with other white persons to forget how insidious, invidious and pervasive discrimination by color really is.

Thank you for the good question.



[edit on 10/19/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
I think it is a good thing for white people to get some bad treatment once in a while if and I say if, they are aware that is the kind of treatment blacks still get from time to time but worse, had to live with forever.

For the life of me I cannot find logic in this reasoning. It's a good thing for white people to get bad treatment... What possible good does that do? It sounds like you are assuming that white people, by virtue of their skin color, are blissfully unaware of racism's existence.

It sounds like you think white people never get treated badly. It sounds like you think white people, by virtue of their skin color, hold some priviledged place as to never undergo bad treatment. Is your life so wonderful, donwhite? Because mine sure isn't! I get treated like crap. And it's not from time to time. Nearly every time I go in public, someone is an ass to me. I'm not saying it's the same as racism, because it's not because of my race most of the time, but to wish racism on anyone is just beyond my power of comprehension. I doubt you'd wish it on black people. No, you just wish it on white people. :shk:

And it never hurts to leave a nice unexpected tip.

What makes you think he doesn't?

[edit on 19-10-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I threatened to call Semper Whimper that was only a threat, and certainly has not alarmed him or her enough to reply.

Now why would that alarm me? I thought it was actually pretty good humor and we all need to learn to laugh at ourselves first and foremost. Makes the world a much more enjoyable place to be in.

I'm a Him by the way.....

Semper

posted by semperfortis

Now why would that alarm me? I thought it was actually pretty good humor and we all need to learn to laugh at ourselves first and foremost. Makes the world a much more enjoyable place to be in. I'm a Him by the way.....
Semper

Thank you. Light humor at another's expense is probably ok but not more.

posted by Benevolent Heretic

For the life of me I cannot find logic in this reasoning. It's a good thing for white people to get bad treatment . . What possible good does that do? It sounds like you are assuming white people, by virtue of their skin color, are blissfully unaware of racism's existence . . but to wish racism on anyone is just beyond my power of comprehension. I doubt you'd wish it on black people. No, you just wish it on white people. [Edited by Don W]

I’m not a religious person; I expect someone has already said this, “suffering must be shared to be efficacious.” As I wrote above, the power of empathy must be “refreshed from time to time,” from T Jefferson. Logical or illogical? I did not mean to be so abstract. Next time I’ll toss a brick.

Originally posted by donwhite
“suffering must be shared to be efficacious.”

I suppose someone at one time or another has said it. You just did. And I guess I just disagree. That's what empathy is about to me. Feeling the loss or the pain that another feels even though I haven't actually experienced it. Even though I don't share the suffering, my ability to feel or imagine the pain is my ability to empathize.

I don't believe I have to suffer the death of a spouse, for example, to feel and feel for someone who has lost theirs. And I do not believe it would be good for all of us to have our spouses die just so we'd really know what it feels like.

I can (and do, whether you believe it or not) feel empathy for people who are wronged without having felt the exact same 'wrong' myself.

That's all I was trying to say.

Next time I’ll toss a brick.

Nice...

Unless as I explained elsewhere, you are a Republican, a millionaire or work for Halliburton.

posted by Benevolent Heretic

I guess I just disagree. Even though I don't share the suffering, my ability to feel or imagine the pain is my ability to empathize. I can (and do whether you believe it or not) feel empathy for people who are wronged without having felt the exact same 'wrong' myself. That's all I was trying to say. Nice... [Edited by Don W]

Nicely put, B/H. I meant to make a general statement and was not meaning to be person specific. Based on your other posts, I would never challenge you on empathy. I have the opinion you are urging self reliance rather than mutual support. More individual less group. I have never read anything you posted that showed even a hint of disrespect for a person, and certainly none based on race, religion or national origin.

I am the #23,894 person to visit this thread.
Further, this topic has generated 1,431 postings.




[edit on 10/20/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
I have never read anything you posted that showed even a hint of disrespect for a person, and certainly none based on race, religion or national origin.

If I may jump on the 'give BH a warm fuzzy hug' bandwagon ... I also have found her posts to be truthful, respectful, empathetic and/or sympathetic. Add to that a cupful of common sense and dash of warmth; and top it off with honest humility .. that's a BH post.

Seriously .. BH bends over backwards and is probably one of the most patient people I have 'met' here. It's no wonder her black bar is broken!!

edited to match Don White's edit.

Sorry about the one line thing .. but if I left the post in .. it wouldn't have made sense.



[edit on 10/20/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan


DW .. she's banned and I dont' think we are allowed to discuss any banned people or why they were banned.

Gee. I have been gone 10 days and now I start with a faux pas. I feel like Bush43 must feel. Unread my post.

Originally posted by donwhite
I feel like Bush43 must feel....

Hmmm .. you feel like a pseudo-fundamentalist-christian who knew that liberating Iraq was the right thing to do for America, Iraq, and the world; yet you mishandled it and now are on mood medications to get you through the next two years?

Sorry .. wrong topic. (But I just HAD TO!!)

spelling edit ...

[edit on 10/20/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I dont' think we are allowed to discuss any banned people or why they were banned.

Is this true?

Are there any mods reading this? Could someone enlighten us in this thread, or do I have to start a whole new thread?

I hate starting new threads, because no one ever posts, so... here would be best. Thanks.

I don't know that it is against the rules, but it is definitely bad form..

I have observed what happened when they opened up a conversation on why another member was banned and it was a real drama fest.

I can't see how anything would be accomplished in discussing anyone that was banned personally.


Semper

Semper is correct. While not specifically against the rules, it tends to create a drama fest and the Mods will normally close and trash any threads asking why a member was banned. Asking such questions in public is normally not a good idea.

If you were looking for further information on what happened, you might try a u2u to your favourite Mod or use the complain button and ask if one of them could fill you in. While I know this almost goes without saying, if you do ask, do it in the nicest possible manner.

There is no guarantee you will receive a response to your question, but the chances of an answer are greatly improved if it is asked in private.



Edited to elaborate:

I believe the idea is that it is unfair to discuss the banning of a member, the reasons behind it or the member themselves when the member in question is not able to participate in the discussion. That and the board drama it creates.




[edit on 20-10-2006 by Duzey]