Long Range Missle was aimed at Hawaii

My problem with these twits and their super duper dongers, is that they have no consideration to publish their test plans.

Think about it - there is shipping traffic in the water, pleasure boaters and the fishing dudes. There is also air traffic to think about. The major powers declare their flight path and landing zones so people can stay away. Heck, the US has range safety folks that make sure the flight path and landing range is clear and their is no launch if there are things that could be hit. We publish things like NOTAM's and Coast Guard notes that warn of any launch activity.

Anyone can test all they want, but they should at least TRY and be nice about it.

You think NK actually looked at flight path data for planes in the area or shipping routes for traffic..??

If it was aimed at Hawaii that is an act of war and I believe the US should find that lil mad man and nuke the city he is in along with abarrage of other guided missles and bombs directed at destroying all of NK long range abilities. Additonaly, enough fire power should be used to halt and or destroy any NK counter attack on the South.

I do not and did not believe invasion of Iraq was something we should have done but I do believe NK has attacked us and that we should now remove the threat completely.

Sadly some civilians will die but in the long run it will likely save more NK from starvation than would be lost in an all out US destruction of NK military and governement.

Our President attacked the wrong enemey in the "Axis of Evil".

Excellent point UofCinLA. Even in classified launches of CIA spy satelites, the U.S. at least gives launch window times and general trajectories to warn everyone. NK is just launching these things which don't seem to work well at all and they're flying in all directions and could hit anything.

If they did even accidently hit something important, it could start a major war, even a nuclear WWIII situation.

I dont personally think NK would give 2 hoots about informing anyone that they are "testing" missles, if they hit anything, then what you gonna do about, sue???? im sure NK will agree to settle out of court you just have to go over and collect the settlement chq in person. they will even arrange accomdation for you.



[edit on 7-7-2006 by snakebite]

I agree with UofCinLA too. North Korea should have at least let everyone know their intent. Especially as we are still at war with them and aiming missiles towards Japan or Hawaii are definitely hostile posturing.

Originally posted by UofCinLA
My problem with these twits and their super duper dongers, is that they have no consideration to publish their test plans.

Think about it - there is shipping traffic in the water, pleasure boaters and the fishing dudes. There is also air traffic to think about. The major powers declare their flight path and landing zones so people can stay away. Heck, the US has range safety folks that make sure the flight path and landing range is clear and their is no launch if there are things that could be hit. We publish things like NOTAM's and Coast Guard notes that warn of any launch activity.

Anyone can test all they want, but they should at least TRY and be nice about it.

You think NK actually looked at flight path data for planes in the area or shipping routes for traffic..??

I'm not sure about publishing all the details of their tests, but did they not tell the international community that they would be conducting tests? I'm sure they did include many details in that announcement, many that were not released to Joe Schmoe on the street. I do not think that North Morea, or any other nation, would conduct a test without notifying those countries around it that it was doing so. If not, why did South Korea not immediately respond with a military action? They would be the primary target of any North Korean aggression and respond to any threat with equal or greater force. Not a peep from South Korea. What's up with that?



Again, our paranoia and willingness to swallow anything the government or media says in this country is mind boggling.

I have heard from some mil pilots I chat with that the rumor in the mil is that China and Russia are pushing NK to test, in the hopes of gaining data on US BMD system.
[edit on 6-7-2006 by Imperium Americana]

I heard the same thing on this MP3 last night that Steve quayle did on the 4th. It's over an hour long, but if you listen to nothing, listen starting from about 18 -40 minutes, and you should hear the same in that area. Look for this to find the link:
"Due to recent world events, Steve is making the July 4th Q-Files available, along with a special 2nd hour presentation." I don't know if the link will just attach?


www.stevequayle.com...

Interesting theory about the Russian/China thing...but if that were true, don't you think those countries would have given North Korea equipment that actually worked? I don't believe any of the NK missiles came within the range in which the U.S. would try/be able to shoot them down.

[edit on 7/7/2006 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Interesting theory about the Russian/China thing...but if that were true, don't you think those countries would have given North Korea equipment that actually worked? I don't believe any of the NK missiles came within the range in which the U.S. would try/be able to shoot them down.

[edit on 7/7/2006 by djohnsto77]

Two words: Plausible deniability. If NK had shot a Chicom missile we would know something was up. They are very different. We would have seen the difference while they were erecting it and the range per stage would have been off. Add the two together and we would know the Chicoms were arming NK in violation of the NNP treaty.

NK Missiles

Chinese Missiles

No they will just keep shipping cash, food and POL to the NK in exchange for them getting it right. Word is that the NK have another T-2 getting preped for launch. I have a hunch that if the 1st had gone off right there would have not been a 2nd. China needs some data for their money and NK going to get it for them. Both NK, Rus & China know that as long as the missile land in international water there is not a dang thing the US can do about it.

We are all assuming, of course, that the failure of the first Taepodong 2 was unintentional. It is also likely that they simply were testing the US BMD response and target acquisition abilities. They do know that we were able to tell the difference between the Taepodong2 and the others rather quickly.

Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Two words: Plausible deniability.

OK, that may be true...but in this case it was a terrible failure because they were unable to test our systems and at the same time made us more adamant about creating/improving them.

I think people really overestimate the coziness of the relationship between NK and Russia/China, especially China. China's relationship with NK is not exactly carefree, last I heard NK was refusing to return the trains on which the Chinese were sending aid for their starving populace, which as you might guess didn't make the Chinese too happy. And if you'll notice, their missiles came down in the ocean quite a bit closer to Russia than to Japan.

As for why the multiple lanches, IMHO that simply made it a better publicity stunt.

As far as the "missile aimed at Hawaii" story I think it's entirely bogus, spin from the Japanese right that got picked up by the Israeli right - with the missle starting to break up and lose control almost immediately after launch (at least according to the US .mil) and exploding after all of 42 seconds, it seems unlikely that any accurate track could be established.

It's possible they were able to determine that it was headed in the general direction of Hawaii (as opposed to the last one a few years back, which was launched in the general direction of Alaska), but the "OMG NK tried to nuke Hawaii!!" is just BS from the usual scaremongers as far as I can tell.

[edit on 7/7/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
OK, that may be true...but in this case it was a terrible failure because they were unable to test our systems and at the same time made us more adamant about creating/improving them.

Was it a failure? They found out that we can ID and track missiles based on type as well as detirmine est. track and range, all in 42sec, Yonhap is reporting a 7min run time and various sources are say up to 10 missiles were launched. I would say that is pretty good intel ops. In fact all the different reports (i.e. 3 missiles, 5, 10, 42 sec 7min) may be a US attempt to spread disinfo, due to all the leaks.

Originally posted by Xeven
If it was aimed at Hawaii that is an act of war and I believe the US should find that lil mad man and nuke the city he is in along with abarrage of other guided missles and bombs directed at destroying all of NK long range abilities. Additonaly, enough fire power should be used to halt and or destroy any NK counter attack on the South.

I do not and did not believe invasion of Iraq was something we should have done but I do believe NK has attacked us and that we should now remove the threat completely.

Sadly some civilians will die but in the long run it will likely save more NK from starvation than would be lost in an all out US destruction of NK military and governement.

Our President attacked the wrong enemey in the "Axis of Evil".

I believe US missiles landed in other countries while fighting in Iraq, going by your logic, it would be ok for these countries to nuke the US.

It doesnt mean it was going to land there just because it was pointing at a certain place. They were going to ditch them in the see but the trajectory had to point at another country if you take it far enough.

I think Kim Jong just enjoys poking at a rotweiler with a stick.

He probably burned ants with a magnifier as a child.

Originally posted by Xeven
If it was aimed at Hawaii that is an act of war and I believe the US should find that lil mad man and nuke the city he is in along with abarrage of other guided missles and bombs directed at destroying all of NK long range abilities. Additonaly, enough fire power should be used to halt and or destroy any NK counter attack on the South.

I do not and did not believe invasion of Iraq was something we should have done but I do believe NK has attacked us and that we should now remove the threat completely.

Sadly some civilians will die but in the long run it will likely save more NK from starvation than would be lost in an all out US destruction of NK military and governement.

Our President attacked the wrong enemey in the "Axis of Evil".

Good job for an awful lot of people that China didn't see it the same way when that Tomahawk smashed into their embassy in the old Yugoslavia isn't it?

Also nice to see the loving compassionate side of some of the posters on here.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by neformore]

One thing I have noticed on this thread is that the posters split into two categories.

There are those who think about it and question the events, and maybe even use a bit of science.

And there are those who just write things akin to "glassify North Korea"

Seems like theres still an awful lot of ignorance that needs to be denied for the latter class of posters.

Originally posted by neformore
One thing I have noticed on this thread is that the posters split into two categories.

There are those who think about it and question the events, and maybe even use a bit of science.

And there are those who just write things akin to "glassify North Korea"

Seems like theres still an awful lot of ignorance that needs to be denied for the latter class of posters.

And which class of poster are you?

Come on people can we TRY and keep the thread focused...Please?

It's one thing if you want to test missiles unannounced. Go for it, just don't be surprised at the uproar, and results of it. It's an entirely DIFFERENT form of idiocy to perform a long range missile test, with the missile aimed at a country you're still technically in a state of war with. As far as the trajectory, almost immediately after launch it would have started tipping over onto the course it would need to head to the target. That would be enough to give them a rough idea where it was going to land. It could be Hawaii, or it could be they were going for the West Coast region. It has enough range to hit both.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
I don't understand how "waters NEAR Hawaii" translates in your mind to "aimed AT Hawaii." So now I suppose I should post another thread called "Missiles aimed at Japan? They were 600 km near Japan. In other words, missed it by a long shot. YES. A test.

Waters near HI would be a very, very foolish move. VERY foolish. And define "near". 12 NM near?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Excellent point UofCinLA. Even in classified launches of CIA spy satelites, the U.S. at least gives launch window times and general trajectories to warn everyone. NK is just launching these things which don't seem to work well at all and they're flying in all directions and could hit anything.

If they did even accidently hit something important, it could start a major war, even a nuclear WWIII situation.

We often play by rules that others choose not to implement.

It's a foolish move, no two ways about it.