Is Satan God, partly God, or not God?

Originally posted by curiousity

Originally posted by StreetCorner PhilosopherIve read JOB. Satan is his conscience talking to him. The madness in our minds...maybe mine might become overcome by satan after reading so many posts and realizing how brainwashed people can get.

Satan is your half. Half of your consciousness ! The cause of evil deeds. You resist it, the temptation. Thats all satan is...the temptations of nature...our nature. Half. It is why we have free will they say..we choose to follow from a list of 2 paths. We go down the path to heaven...or do we make a decision that will lead us to hell?

You said you'd read "JOB". Do you see any quotes around that statement in your own post? Whether now or 'awhile ago' is immaterial, as is most of what I've read of your sun-baked philosophy.

JOB kept bickering about his life. He had it all. He was not content. I know this because I read the bible even though I live like an alchemist. I think JOB was complaining because he had everything to lose. When he lost it all, he had everything to gain. Scientologists preach that its possible to be a man of God and still be wealthy. Jesus said that one cannot be a man of God and be wealthy at the same time. When you have everything to lose, you change.

JOB complaining was a result of the devil's influence. Spoiled children do the same. If a soul does not suffer or encounter the grip of satan in any form or method, then the soul can never find heaven. Only through suffering and times of despair can a person be circumcised. Saved. Value your anguish.

[edit on 6/30/2006 by StreetCorner Philosopher]

Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
JOB kept bickering about his life. He had it all. He was not content. I know this because I read the bible even though I live like an alchemist. I think JOB was complaining because he had everything to lose. When he lost it all, he had everything to gain. Scientologists preach that its possible to be a man of God and still be wealthy. Jesus said that one cannot be a man of God and be wealthy at the same time. When you have everything to lose, you change.

The name of the thread is "Is Satan God, partly God or not God" and to keep to the theme let me bring you back to the beginning of Job. Here is a few verses from Chapter 1:6-8:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil..."

Now bear with me for awhile and let's leave your philosophy on the corner for a moment. Who said to satan, "Where have you come from?" And Who said to satan "Have you considered my servant Job?".....now, show me from your reading of the Bible even though you live like an alchemist, where is it that it is Job's "conscience" or his "consciousness", both terms you've used in your posts, that are "talking to Job", as you've posted?

Job was not bickering or complaining about his life. Had he been the Lord would not have said he was "perfect and upright" since murmuring and complaining is not what God wants to hear from people He has blessed, especially as He blessed Job. [See what happened to the Hebrews who murmured while trekking through the wilderness in Numbers 21, especially verses 5 & 6]

He began complaining AFTER he'd been stripped of everything including his 10 children. And his complaints were not about his life but rather about "why is God picking on me when I'm perfect?"

Finally, in Job 32:1 the truth is out, as it says "So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes."

Now we know why God had to point him out to satan, and why the hedge God had indeed placed about Job had to be let down, and why Job had to suffer the loss of all things. Very simply, there was no other way for God to make him to understand that "God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. 3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one! (Ps 53:2,3)

Even the "cleanest" lives are tainted with lack of desire for the things of God who created man. And many are righteous in their own eyes, yet for Job's sake, God brought him to his knees and so he says in 40:4 ""Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth."

Now he can be forgiven and proceed with his renewed blessings untouchable by satan, whom God used to correct a saint He loved.

You also erroneously ascribed this to Jesus, "Jesus said that one cannot be a man of God and be wealthy at the same time".

There is no such saying in all of the Bible, reader of the Bible, though you live like an alchemist.

Jesus said, and this is the closest to what you are "misquoting", "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Hence it is not impossible to be rich and godly, but it is impossible to make the Bible say what it does not.

This saying or its equivalent is found in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, three of the four Gospels. It would be difficult, it would seem, to have "read the Bible" without at least browsing through one of these 3 books, important as they are to Bible readers.

Now will you stop posting misinformation?

Originally posted by curiousity
The name of the thread is "Is Satan God, partly God or not God"

Although your discourse on Job is very good--you've surely hit a big nail on the head with this statement:

Finally, in Job 32:1 the truth is out, as it says "So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes."

And this one:

And many are righteous in their own eyes, yet for Job's sake, God brought him to his knees and so he says in 40:4 ""Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth."

You still didn't address the key point....what is your conclusion, curiousity?

Is Satan

1. God
   
2. partly (or part of) God
   
3. Not God
   

Originally posted by StreetCornerPhilosopher
When you have everything to lose, you change.

JOB complaining was a result of the devil's influence. Spoiled children do the same. If a soul does not suffer or encounter the grip of satan in any form or method, then the soul can never find heaven. Only through suffering and times of despair can a person be circumcised. Saved. Value your anguish.

Also excellent!

'When you have everything to lose' and you don't change--you will lose that which you value, sometimes over and over until you are refined and strengthened.

Because in the end, rich or poor, ugly or pretty, fat or thin..you are who you are, and who you are is who God sees. He doesn't see us as we see ourselves, or even as we see one another. He sees who He made and named. He sees our soul.

This is the purpose of affliction:

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
(1 Peter 4:1-2)

God sends us our satans because HE LOVES US. Not because He's mad or wants us to fail. We cannot fail--but we must first learn that we can never win, on our own...

curious, you must first realize that the exact quotes in the bible still meant what I meant. Jesus said " a man cannot be wealthy and have faith" . He sure said it differently, but same meaning. Also my friend, Jesus never wrote a gospel published in the bible. So who's to say im misinforming anyone. Just the interpretation is different. Just like the authors of the bible, the bible has Jesus' words in red, most of it is not his exact words.

[edit on 6/30/2006 by StreetCorner Philosopher]

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by StreetCornerPhilosopher
When you have everything to lose, you change.

JOB complaining was a result of the devil's influence. Spoiled children do the same. If a soul does not suffer or encounter the grip of satan in any form or method, then the soul can never find heaven. Only through suffering and times of despair can a person be circumcised. Saved. Value your anguish.

Also excellent!

'When you have everything to lose' and you don't change--you will lose that which you value, sometimes over and over until you are refined and strengthened.

Because in the end, rich or poor, ugly or pretty, fat or thin..you are who you are, and who you are is who God sees. He doesn't see us as we see ourselves, or even as we see one another. He sees who He made and named. He sees our soul.

This is the purpose of affliction:

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
(1 Peter 4:1-2)

God sends us our satans because HE LOVES US. Not because He's mad or wants us to fail. We cannot fail--but we must first learn that we can never win, on our own...

Jesus is the inner conscience of all who are circumcised. If a person is connected....then he is a son of God, in the flesh. If a person is disconnected, then everything from bad discipline to bad diet, to bad decision will eventually lead a hard life caused by the other half of our inner conscience...satan. Satan tempts us, and weak people without the inner christ conscience will succumb to satan's grasp.

For example...a jealous person...This person will one day suffer from God's wrath. The suffering is internal. Conscious suffering. If the person feels no remorse, and does not repent...then satan has won your soul. If a person feels guilty for his mistake, then the connected person will make sure he will not insult God again.

[edit on 6/30/2006 by StreetCorner Philosopher]

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by curiousity
The name of the thread is "Is Satan God, partly God or not God"

Although your discourse on Job is very good--you've surely hit a big nail on the head with this statement:

Finally, in Job 32:1 the truth is out, as it says "So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes."

And this one:

And many are righteous in their own eyes, yet for Job's sake, God brought him to his knees and so he says in 40:4 ""Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth."

You still didn't address the key point....what is your conclusion, curiousity?

Is Satan

1. God
   
2. partly (or part of) God
   
3. Not God
   

I would have thought the verses in Job would have answered the question, both to show that it was not Job who was "talking to himself", as SCP has posted, but God and satan in the discourse, and to show that satan is NOT God.

Since they spoke to one another, they are separate beings. Therefore he is NOT God, the Job verses in Chapter 1 sound as if he is among the sons of God, ie a created being, the Creator being God, as possibly one of them, and before you go there, and I ask you not to, NOT the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son either. The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son was born of a virgin woman, and was/is called Son of man and Son of God; satan has no such name and never did, never will.

And we know that God created all things, (including angels, one would have to surmise) and that is clearly who satan is, a created being who tempted God with pride; the arrogance of saying he would be like the Most High, and consequently lost his assigned place forever.

I would have thought you'd know all that, queenie.

Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
curious, you must first realize that the exact quotes in the bible still meant what I meant. Jesus said " a man cannot be wealthy and have faith" . He sure said it differently, but same meaning. Also my friend, Jesus never wrote a gospel published in the bible. So who's to say im misinforming anyone. Just the interpretation is different. Just like the authors of the bible, the bible has Jesus' words in red, most of it is not his exact words.

[edit on 6/30/2006 by StreetCorner Philosopher]

It's curiousity to you, SCP, and there is no way on this earth I am your friend, because you are a misinformer bent on posting your own weak philosophy out of your own reasoning, and a lie is a lie is a lie, whether it is spoken from lack of knowledge or through a desire to expose one's own foolishness, and there is NO other interpretation for THAT. The Bible, which is the only book that has as its claim to sanctified information that it is God-breathed, deserves more respect than you will give it.

However, since you know what Jesus said and what He didn't say, post on, only be aware that you will be called to account sooner or later for every "idle word", JUST like everyone else.

Originally posted by curiousity

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by curiousity
The name of the thread is "Is Satan God, partly God or not God"

Although your discourse on Job is very good--you've surely hit a big nail on the head with this statement:

.... The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son was born of a virgin woman, and was/is called Son of man and Son of God; satan has no such name and never did, never will.

...

I would just like to say that he most definitely was not *JUST* born then of the virgin, the original father sent him.. the father-god..

Originally posted by curiousity
I would have thought the verses in Job would have answered the question, both to show that it was not Job who was "talking to himself", as SCP has posted, but God and satan in the discourse, and to show that satan is NOT God.

If considering only Job, then perhaps you would have a valid point. But what about
2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1-2? How do you explain that?

The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son was born of a virgin woman, and was/is called Son of man and Son of God; satan has no such name and never did, never will.

How do you know? You don't know 'satan's' name, obviously, from the way you speak of these things...what makes you think you know the Son's name? And I don't mean the name of His visitiation, since we can read in Revelation that He will return with a different name...

I would have thought you'd know all that, queenie.

I don't know why....I don't know the things that you know, curiosity. Really I can't say that I know anything in the same sense that you know these things.

I put no stock in religion. Mose are easily mislead by the inability to see through the bible's morals and points. People take things literally when they should think of it symbolically. Jesus was a great philosopher. He was murdered by narrow minded dogmatic ignorants who could not see past Christ's moral implications. He used metaphors and basic logic. But people took him too literal. So he was labled a liar and was killed. Shame...ignorance killed a great man.

By all means religeon wasn't meant for itself.. none of its words are to solidify itself.. it is only meant to make sense to those listening.. a drug experience will quickly tell you those explicit feelings are almost impossible to convey.. (Phramacratic Inquisition ??)

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by curiousity
I would have thought the verses in Job would have answered the question, both to show that it was not Job who was "talking to himself", as SCP has posted, but God and satan in the discourse, and to show that satan is NOT God.

If considering only Job, then perhaps you would have a valid point. But what about
2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1-2? How do you explain that?

The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son was born of a virgin woman, and was/is called Son of man and Son of God; satan has no such name and never did, never will.

How do you know? You don't know 'satan's' name, obviously, from the way you speak of these things...what makes you think you know the Son's name? And I don't mean the name of His visitiation, since we can read in Revelation that He will return with a different name...

I don't know why....I don't know the things that you know, curiosity. Really I can't say that I know anything in the same sense that you know these things.

Okay, let me see if I'm "up" for your challenge, queenie:
2 Samuel 24:1 reads "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."

1 Chronicles 21:1-2 read: "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it."

In 2 Sam 24:1, the word for God is Jehovah, in 1 Chron 21:1 the word for satan is adversary (Lexicon says "adversary whether personal or national", or "superhuman adversary, ie satan").

Two different names, and two very different beings. As with Job, apparently, Jehovah pointed the Israelites out to satan, and satan did what he does best: tempt, and incite to sin.

At least, I suppose you meant that these two occurences happened at the one and the same time. I was unable to determine that quickly. However, in the one case Israel and Judah was to be numbered, and in the second, only Israel was mentioned, so that it appears it may have been two different occurences, but that is just an observation at this point.

And, now, how about Isaiah 45:7?

By the way, if I did "know satan's name" which you imply I don't, I wouldn't speak it, queenannie, even saying satan, which to me is all the name I need to use, its just "enemy" so far as I'm concerned, and distasteful.

And it certainly is not equivalent to the name of Jesus, or have you not read Acts 4:10 "let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

You care about the "deep things of satan as they are called", apparently. I care far more for the deep things of God, those that are revealed and those that will be.

As for what I "KNOW", queenie, I know by faith, and that from hearing the Word of God. Since you say you do not, then you are not hearing or you are not activating the faith that comes in that manner.



[edit on 1-7-2006 by curiousity]

I always say, never look up to the sky when you pray.....people should look in the mirror.

Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
I always say, never look up to the sky when you pray.....people should look in the mirror.

AMEN!

It's also the best place to face up to things requiring 'confession,' too--and if there is the 'devil-made-me-do-it' urge--once more that mirror is the direct line to the source.

Originally posted by curiousity
In 2 Sam 24:1, the word for God is Jehovah, in 1 Chron 21:1 the word for satan is adversary (Lexicon says "adversary whether personal or national", or "superhuman adversary, ie satan").

Actually, the subject of the sentence in 2 Samuel is not the LORD but anger—'of the LORD' functions as an adjective.

Two different names, and two very different beings. As with Job, apparently, Jehovah pointed the Israelites out to satan, and satan did what he does best: tempt, and incite to sin.

Actually, no—these two things—the ‘anger of the LORD’ and ‘satan’ are one in the same. In 2 Samuel, it says that this anger ‘moved’ David to number the people. According to Strong’s, it is:

H5496
סוּת
sûth
sooth
Perhaps denominative from H7898; properly to prick, that is, (figuratively) stimulate; by implication to seduce: - entice, move, persuade, provoke, remove, set on, stir up, take away.

Which seems even more persuasive and influential than ‘temptation’ would be. The anger of the LORD seduced David to do something that would anger the LORD!

It would appear that the subject of these two sentences are both acting in basically the same fashion….not ‘two very different beings,’ either—since the anger of the LORD is not a being, in the first place.

At least, I suppose you meant that these two occurences happened at the one and the same time. I was unable to determine that quickly. However, in the one case Israel and Judah was to be numbered, and in the second, only Israel was mentioned, so that it appears it may have been two different occurences, but that is just an observation at this point.

It would have taken you all of about 2 minutes to ascertain, for yourself, that these two passages are talking about the same exact incident:

David called Joab to give him instructions regarding his desire to number the people of his kingdom—’from Dan to Beersheeba’. Joab attempted to reason with David, to the effect that regardless of how many people there were, they were all citizens of David’s kingdom and were loyal to same. David didn’t heed Joab’s warning—Joab indeed went out and did as he was told, and coming back had a count of both Israel and Judah in both passages.

And, now, how about Isaiah 45:7?

What about it? It’s pretty plain, isn’t it? What about this verse which it follows?

And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
(Isaiah 45:3)

And it certainly is not equivalent to the name of Jesus, or have you not read Acts 4:10

This thread is about who satan is—in relation to God. It has nothing to do with hierarchy or salvation—or Yehoshua.

I care far more for the deep things of God, those that are revealed and those that will be.

Which is ALL in ALL, right? All will be revealed, not just the shiny, happy things. Isaiah 45 covers the subject quite thoroughly, IMO.

As for what I "KNOW", queenie, I know by faith, and that from hearing the Word of God.

What I meant was: I don’t just take only the good and comfortable ideas and claim them worth knowing, and disregard what’s not so pleasant as being something outside of God and therefore not anything I'm subject to. I don’t take things at the word of other people or for the sake of my own comforts, preferring to be as Berean in all my efforts, and trusting nothing except what God gives me--whether it be 'good' or 'evil.'

God is the one who gives us evil, evil spirits, and even lying spirits! If there is evil going on, we are to understand it comes from one place only—God Himself:

Lying spirits given by God:
1Kings 22:22-23; 2Chronicles 18:21-22
Evil spirits given by God:
Judges 9:23; 1Samuel 16:15-16 , 16:23, 18:10

Here are some other verses:

Joshua 23:15-16
Judges 9:23
1 Samuel 16:23, 18:10-14
2 Samuel 12:11
1 Kings 5:4, 9:9, 14:10
2 Kings 6:33, 21:12, 22:16
2 Chronicles 7:21-22, 34:24, 34:28
Nehemiah 13:18
Job 42:11
Psalms 140:11
Jeremiah 6:19, 11:11, 11:23, 16:10,18:11, 19:3, 21:10, 23:12, 25:29, 35:17, 39:16, 40:2-3, 42:17, 44:2, 44:11, 44:27, 44:29, 45:5, 49:37, 51:64
Ezekiel 5:16-17, 14:22
Daniel 9:13
Micah 2:3
1 Kings 22:18-23
2 Chronicles 18:19-22

I don’t find satan mentioned as evil, or as a fallen angel—what is written of as being ‘fallen’ is usually men or their cities. I don’t find anything evil except that which comes from God and that which comes from man. Even in Job, satan may be walking to and fro in the earth, but he is certainly still allowed to approach the throne—and is called a son of God, not a fallen or rebellious son of God. All rebellion, likewise, in the bible is declared as that of men, not angels. Some angels have been written of as leaving their ‘first estate’ which is their habitation—but they weren’t cast out—they left because they didn’t keep watch---or else they didn’t keep their watch on account of leaving. But that’s all that can be assumed from the verse in Jude that I am referring to…the rest is not supported.

Also—the following verses clearly state who it is who does both good and evil and from whom we should expect the same to issue forth from:

(Amos 3:6) Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
(Lamentations 3:38) Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

Even more significantly—we are to worry about one thing, which is obeying God—whether what He commands is good or evil:

(Jeremiah 42:6) Whether it be good, or whether it be evil, we will obey the voice of the LORD our God, to whom we send thee; that it may be well with us, when we obey the voice of the LORD our God.

Agreed queen. Your last sentence. We must only worry about one thing...and that is maintaining 360 and making sure the dark side of God is shunned away while we maintain pure goodness with no interference.

Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
...while we maintain pure goodness with no interference.

Oh, that was a good one, philosopher, here I am just coasting through the postings and there you are in your "pure goodness" oh oh oh, I think I'm gonna, no, I know I'm gonna

:bnghd::bnghd:

Originally posted by curiousity
Oh, that was a good one, philosopher, here I am just coasting through the postings and there you are in your "pure goodness" oh oh oh, I think I'm gonna, no, I know I'm gonna

:bnghd::bnghd:

Why, curiousity??!?! What is so repulsive to you in that statement?

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
(Matthew 5:8)

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:19-20)

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
(Matthew 5:44-48)

Sounds to me like the philosopher has a good handle on what Yehoshua instructed we are to do...what is sickening to you about such a thing? You should be rejoicing to see such a thing--in anyone--especially since you seem so secure in your own future position in the kingdom.

It's ok Queen, I forgive him, he does not know better. He seems filled with anger and hatred for some reason, he needs to flush it out and lighten up.

Curious...Read ACTS again....read it twice... and realize that my way of life and yours are the same.

[edit on 7/3/2006 by StreetCorner Philosopher]