Is Satan God, partly God, or not God?

I side with partly God as I believe in omniscience, omnipotence, and omniprescence. Free will is worse than hogwash; it does not exist. We were preplanned, planned, fated, and destined. We have as much control over our own lives as a possible goal of creating a star or planet.

Lord have mercy.

Well if you belive in duality then Satan is the Jelly to God's Peanut Butter... so to speak. But if you belive in One Source from which everything, including existance itself, came into existance; then "God" is the source of everything and theres no heaven or hell since you just go back to the source.

According to the story Lucifer is a beautiful angel and evil. This probably come from Venus being called Lucifer (which means morning-star), also called light-bearer or lesser-light to God (which would be the sun here, with 12 deciples/zodiac signs). (also Venus/Lucifer makes a 5-point star during its orbit as seen from earth at certain intervals). Since Venus(/Lucifer) is also a symbol of the virgin or goddess, then Venus/Female/Lucifer worship was frowned upon because it made people think of several gods instead of one.

But I think that all this coulda been avoided if the Church said the male-female duality wasnt polytheisim, but rather duality stemming from the once source - God.

Or not, whatever.

I want to believe that God is only Good. Out of Spiritual weakness, sometimes I have doubts. I know there is a Biblical passage indicating that God is only Good and can only be Good. The particular book-chapter-verse is escaping me.

To me, the only way to justify that evil sometimes occurs in the world is that it gives greater Glory to God when Great things occur.

I believe we are created by something far more intelligent than anything most of us will ever see or know. Whether it be Aliens God, Satan whatever. I pretty much don't buy completely into any religion or dogma. I have been raised somewhat religous but have decided that its for people who need a crutch and can't seem to make it in the world without support from a group. I really don't believe the Gods that be get involved down here below too much. I guess that makes me sort of a deist.

Satan is the excuse human beings make to cover up their own evil. They do something terrible. Then they become such in denial that they can't stand the fact that it was they who did something wrong so they make up something like the devil to cover up for their own misdeeds.

Satan is a human creation, as is God. Based on what the people who created christianity believe, Satan is a fallen angel, no?

If Satan is a fallen angel, does he have more power and intelligence than humans? Angels have been typically defined as having more power and intelligence than humans.

Originally posted by Dances With Angels
Satan is the excuse human beings make to cover up their own evil. They do something terrible. Then they become such in denial that they can't stand the fact that it was they who did something wrong so they make up something like the devil to cover up for their own misdeeds.

Yeah, I agree with you totally, if there was any God who give a @#$% there wouldn't be so many suffering poor people in the world. Near as I can tell any group with any given religion at some point in time has been whipped the tar out of with zero intervention from a God.

Originally posted by GreatTech
If Satan is a fallen angel, does he have more power and intelligence than humans? Angels have been typically defined as having more power and intelligence than humans.

I think the Christian belief is they are more powerful. Regardless, there are no angels or fallen angels, so no worries.

I would offer this for your personal consumption and ponderance:

I think Satan and/or Lucifer are part of the origin truth, and are somehow connected to the original, first observer. I don't think anything or more specifically any consciousness can exist seperate from the first.

Originally posted by GreatTech
I know there is a Biblical passage indicating that God is only Good and can only be Good. The particular book-chapter-verse is escaping me.

There are probably others but this jumps out at me right away.
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Originally posted by Dances With Angels
Satan is the excuse human beings make to cover up their own evil.

I agree with you on this.

I don't believe that a Satan actually exists. I do believe in a higher power, although not the Christian Bible type.

I strongly believe that God is in each of us. People can't admit that though, otherwise they would have to take responsibility for their actions. The fact is that we can be extraodinarily good and heroic souls if we want to be. People distance themselves from God and say that God is located elsewhere so they don't have to be good all the time.

Some people blame Satan for their actions. How about just admitting that when we do something wrong, it's usually because we wanted to do it? No one made us, we just decided to do the wrong thing.

Satan as a excuse stands for nothing. Look only at fate, destiny... Until we create brain cells, subatomic particles, atoms, molecules, 100's of billions of galaxies, and Infinite Universes, we are subject completely to fate, destiny...

Originally posted by GreatTech
Satan as a excuse stands for nothing. Look only at fate, destiny... Until we create brain cells, subatomic particles, atoms, molecules, 100's of billions of galaxies, and Infinite Universes, we are subject completely to fate, destiny...

Interesting post. Yes..I sometimes wonder about free will. Im starting to think it does not exist.

Everything is written. Signs will let you know that. Search for them. Oh and every force as an exact opposite.

#1 mathematical rule of the cosmos.

Originally posted by GreatTech
I side with partly God as I believe in omniscience, omnipotence, and omniprescence.

By necessity, then, what you believe in determines it to be that satan is part of God.
If God is everywhere, knowing all, and seeing all, then the only way to understand it is that God is all. And, indeed, the bible support that.

Free will is worse than hogwash; it does not exist.

Some of us went a few rounds of ideas on this a couple of months back---I think it is an idea we each wrestle with and see differently at different levels of our growth.

Free will is the opportunity to choose. But in the end, when truth becomes glaringly apparent, no one will remain standing before the throne. What God actually makes known, about His essence is so powerful and overwhelmingly GOOD that I have conviction every knee will bow. Willingly.

We were preplanned, planned, fated, and destined.

What is fate? Yes, preplanned, determined, predestined. But fate, I don't know if my idea of fate and yours are the same thing so I'll hold off on that one.

But know this: If God is GOOD and preplans our ends even before our beginnings, then He has certainly got a good ending planned for all.

We have as much control over our own lives as a possible goal of creating a star or planet.

Potential--but not yet. Possible is after potential. Potential is the hope of young plants and possible is the promise of fruit from a mature plant.

I think that the idea that we have no free will just leaves us with more excuses. "I couldn't help it, it was fate, I was predestined to do it. I can't change anything, it was meant to happen."

I think that a belief in free will is one of the foundations of accountability. In my opinion, it is always better when people take responsibility for their own actions.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
I think that the idea that we have no free will just leaves us with more excuses.

Yep! and more reason, it would seem to 'blame' God (or satan).

But accountability and responsibility are both key issues here, and they are two different things.

The way it is designed to be is:
God is responsible. Man is accountable.

Instead man forces his ideas upon his path, which are:
Man is responsible and God is accountable.

And so it is all screwed up for many and somewhat for the world, in general. But even though we make it backwards like that--God is still responsible--for he is a faithful creator. True responsibility and trustworthiness doesn't depend on outside situtations to affect its necessity or cause... when one is responsible, then they are taking care of it, without needing even for it to be known.

The only real stinger is that so many might deny accountability until they are having to give answers to God that they thought God would give them an answer for.

Turning it back to how it sits as it was meant to sit -- we find there is no more 'eternal damnation' or question of 'free-will' vs 'predestination.'

I personally lack a concept of judgement on the part of a God. I further believe that the concept of 'judgement day' provides the wrong type of motivation for some.

Which would you say is the best example of the purest heart:

I worshipped God because I was afraid of hell.

OR

I worshipped God in order to get to heaven.

OR

I worshipped God because, although there was nothing in it for me, I just happened to love God so much that I was inspired to do acts of worship.


I think that not only am I accountable and responsible for my actions, but I must also undertake an action with the right intent.

If I take the wrong action or do the right action with the wrong intent, it certainly was not the fault of some Satan, it was my choice.


[edit on 6/18/06 by wellwhatnow]

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
I personally lack a concept of judgement on the part of a God.

Perhaps we are expected to judge ourselves (which is more along the ideas of a mature self-governed adult)?

Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
(Luke 12:57 KJV)

I further believe that the concept of 'judgement day' provides the wrong type of motivation for some.

That kind of motivation is for little kids--who must be a bit scared only for the sake of safety--as they grow, they learn and the rules by threats eventually dissolve.

Which would you say is the best example of the purest heart:

I worshipped God because, although there was nothing in it for me, I just happened to love God so much that I was inspired to do acts of worship.

I like your third choice best.

I loved God without seeking reward, and I loved Him by loving those He loves. (read: the world, not the ways of the world but the souls in the world)

If I take the wrong action or do the right action with the wrong intent, it certainly was not the fault of some Satan, it was my choice.

Nor is God going to bail you out and leave others in on death row just because you made the 'right' choice and believed in what the preacher says....

Placing blame is giving excuse, and giving excuse is not being honest with one's self.
No learning comes from such a mechanism.

Originally posted by GreatTech
I side with partly God

But then God is impure and contains elements of evil within him.

Free will is worse than hogwash;

Why does Satan need free will in order to exist?

the only way to justify that evil sometimes occurs in the world is that it gives greater Glory to God when Great things occur.

What does that have to do with Satan though?

Others have suggested that evil is merely the lack or abscence of God's goodness, similar to how darkness doesn't actually exist on its own, but it merely the abscence of light.

Others have suggested that evil is a necessary corallary too goodness, that, if there is no evil, then there is no such thing as 'good', without evil to set the bounds on good, then there'd be no such thing as good, there'd only be, perhaps, existence.

Others have suggested that evil doesn't really exist, but is rather merely doing things in accordance with your own interests and will, rather than doing them in accordance with god's will, which, however, requires that there is free will (which I'd think can still exist with an all-knowing god, since he's also all powerful. he knows what will happen, but he permits it to happen as a result of the choice of will).

But, notice, these don't require a Satan, or a Prince of Darkness, etc.

does he have more power and intelligence than humans?

Angels have abilities that man does not, and angels, even fallen ones, relay divine information to humans at time. BUT, angels also, having no substance, don't have some human abilities. Also of note, in some instances, its interpretated that Angels took on material attributes, descended to earth, and in doing so, became corrupted (ie, sinned, as in lusted after women, etc). It was sometimes said that the angels bemoaned that man was so wicked, but were told 'bah, if you were down there, you'd do no better'.

Satan is the excuse human beings make to cover up their own evil.

Perhaps, but what is the origin of the evil in the universe? Why is there even a possibility to 'do evil', why is anything even considered evil? What are its origins? Satan? God? Out of the machinations of the Universe itself?

Glooper23
Based on what the people who created christianity believe, Satan is a fallen angel, no?

TIn general, the thought was that Satan was a creation of god that rebelled against his will. For a time, it was thought that the loss of fallen angels was to be compensated by the gain of human souls.



[edit on 19-6-2006 by Nygdan]