John Lear's theory regarding the "Soul Collector"

Originally posted by Prote
John has credibility because of who he is. Sleeper has credibility because John believes him.

That absolutely sums up what seems to be the jidst of this hole deal.

Two credible people sharing their knowledge.

And now that we have a group of believers, all we need is to hear the word.

I only wonder what that word could be...

Hm... "vote republican"..?

Originally posted by andy1033
sleeper or john

1) you say suicide is bad, and you should not do it. what happens to a soul of a suicide and what penalties do those souls have placed upon them?

2) if true, does the vatican know of this knowledge of the soul collector?

3) is there from what you've learned only one earth reality as we know it, and not multiple parallel realties where the earth has similar outcomes. is there just one reality for the earth?

4) is there such a thing as area 51 in england?

thx for any answers

[edit on 13-7-2006 by andy1033]

I'll answer your question. I'll be paitient and in a nice manner. John lear maybe a well respected man, and sleeper "claims" to know tis stuff wihtout any recollection that he actually does know... I'm not aiming fire, I want aswers.

I mean Sucicide theory of their's is bang out of order. people couldn't cope for whatever reason and it's one of the bravest thing to do by anyone. but the fact
is they did, and life goes on, not penal points style, sleeper is saying, because well

he is not on another level to explain, Ironic he's doing what jesus done,,

Got a whole world to believe in what jesus believed in. yet there's no proof of
in his beliefs, just the whole world believing everthing he ever, I mean ever said.

Sleeper is on this path....

They both brush it aside without any full knowing or responsibiility of an action they carried out, without NO evidence. WACKY TO EVEN MENTION A TOUCHY TOUC
HY SUBJECT. Yet when they get a negative response it's name calling, I see exactly what's going on here That is not respectful in my opinion, no harm in getting another side to it. It's coming across like we are belittled and should not have an opinion to go against the grain...


About soul (which again is a theory)
we are now told another wacky trivial detail to brainwash thousands of people, for the "agenda"

as if they are penalised well that is sick, because they do not know this, this is what the sick is..... I'm quite taking this personal for one reason,(and another that it would insult families of that had sucicides) THey have not gone to the afterlife to come back say " OH WELL SUCICIDES ARE PENALISED for kiliing themselves........... absalutley shameful fantasie thoughts.... funny they wont explain anymore, just more elaboratiing...


Now I ask the question Sleeper: Nobody else.
I want you to tell me how you know this, and I do not want to hear far off words, theorys, nonsense and ET talk.. just the fact. Your brave enough to display ignorance to me, not respond even when I had respect to read your entire thread "ET on the nose on your face" since you will not answer any of my questions, I'm being really fair, since you've answer none, bar, "s
howing a know it all attitude on one occaison to me, what was that again, oh Darwins theory is nonsence, hmm to out of line their but when someone's says this about your theory's, it's abuse. Oh I see.


I'm sorry for being stubborn and forward,, but that sucicide penal system,

something they DO NOT know, whether they believe it or whether they are preaching it is irrelevant. but it has got to an outragous point.
But brainwashing us to it. is not the answer btw. Like this comment of Sleeper's they moitor " our brain waves"..... what is this getting to..... they have baby monitors for thier babies.


this in my opinon is outragous, and everyone is of course is entitled to their opinion. where is NASA evidence of the life" on the moon, please I'm interested.


People are monitored. that's is the biggest insult, and the insult is filled with amunission for people to believe it. It makes me sick. Now ET wouldn't want that would he.... Funny again this will be all question to be answered by sleeper, but it will never ever go further than this, I mean nothing is going any further, just keep moving the goalpost...


[edit on 16-7-2006 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by Prote
Nearly. John made the connection because the remote viewer was being warned away because it was not his time. The photo doesn't come from the moon, it is of the moon.

Did he say that? I did not hear him say that. It sounded to me that the remote viewer was warned away from the moon, not the object on the moon. Obviously the photo is of the moon. About this matter of remote viewing. That's another con job all together. That in and of itself discredits the theory from the start. There is no proof that it works. Just listen to Coast to Coast and Ed Danes. If you believe that stuff there may be no hope for you, imo.




John has credibility because of who he is.

Being somebody doesn't make you credible in your thinking or in your logic. To me it is illogical to make statements to the effect the alternative to the soul collector is that the aliens eat us. This is not good logic and I have read this from John Lear elswhere. Even in the absence of evidence I will look at the logic. No good logic, probably wrong, imo.




Sleeper has credibility because John believes him.

Sleeper has no credibility to me, imo. He has an answer for everything. He is a know it all. This is my opinion




None of this is fact, a leap of faith is required.

Sorry, I'm not into faith. I think more like a scientist these days. In days long ago I was willing to test and take the leap. Not anymore.



The size of the leap depends on your own belief.


[edit on 16/7/06 by Prote]

Strange post. You seem to be making assumptions on my behalf, please refrain from doing so.

I merely responded to your question. The statements you pick up on are subjective. The point of your posts seem to merely state that you aren't interested in what they have to say.

It's all a bit moot, there is no value to thread with this. Either follow it if you are interested or step out of the loop.

Originally posted by mind is the universe
I mean Sucicide theory of their's is bang out of order. people couldn't cope for whatever reason and it's one of the bravest thing to do by anyone.

Suicide is bad in every religion on earth. Its certainly not "one of the bravest thing to do by anyone". A lot of what sleeper says, minus the ET connection is very similar to buddhist teachings.

If you don't personally believe in a soul, then naturally any ideas about the soul would seem crazy...

But to compare sleeper to Jesus is a little bit of a stretch, don't you think? I mean I know he presents himself as a teacher.. and quite well, but I don't see any recruitment posters up here anywhere... any he already said you don't have to drink the kool-aid...

so if you compare him to Jesus... you might have people believing in the second coming... wouldn't that through a monkey wrench into evolution?

Originally posted by zorgon
A lot of what sleeper says, minus the ET connection is very similar to buddhist teachings.

Comparing sleeper to Jesus or Buddha is about as much of a stretch as you can make.

A healthy amount of scrutiny would certainly apply here.

Originally posted by Durden
Hm... "vote republican"..?

Im wondering what voting habbits have to do with anything? If he was a 'leftie' would it be ok? Does Sleeper still post in PTS about politics or did that stop when he started posting in the ufo board? Ive had a bit of a think about this, perhaps sleeper came to ATS to share but took him a while to work up the courage, found PTS and posted his right wing bananas there, until such time he was ready to do the thing. My point is... so he believes in a soul collector and capitalisim, he believes that the moon has an atmosphere and in owning fours cars. My further point is this, Billy Mier is a hippy in Switzerland, sleeper is a buisness man who lives in the US. I have a feeling that these things dont matter or at least shouldnt matter.

Of course he may be having a very very long laugh at us each time he logs onto ATS...

Sleeper: Look hun! See how I get the fools in ATS to believe ANYTHING!?
Sleepers wifey: Yes dear but George phoned before, he wants to know are you golfing this weekend.
Sleeper: Dammit! I have to go to that blasted tree hugging conference, damn liberals, why cant they leave us alone!

I suppose in the end of the day, it doesnt really matter, what matters is that we keep learning and asking questions

Originally posted by Dae
Im wondering what voting habbits have to do with anything?

His/her voting habits have little to do with anything. However in this case, his/her manner of reasoning certainly shines a light on the person behind the claims.

And how else do you judge whether an anonymous poster could be considered credible, but through the content of their posts - no matter if they were written in PTS, ATS or BTS?

But hey. Don't take my word for it.

Edit to clarify.

[edit on 17-7-2006 by Durden]

Originally posted by Durden
And how else do you judge whether an anonymous poster could be considered credible, but through the content of their posts - no matter if they were written in PTS, ATS or BTS?

Yes, that is what you are saying - sleeper isnt credible because he has right wing veiws, or is there more to it? Are you saying he isnt credible because he is a capitalist?

But hey. Don't take my word for it.

Im not attacking you Durden, just wanting some clarifaction.

Originally posted by Dae

Originally posted by Durden
And how else do you judge whether an anonymous poster could be considered credible, but through the content of their posts - no matter if they were written in PTS, ATS or BTS?

Yes, that is what you are saying - sleeper isnt credible because he has right wing veiws, or is there more to it? Are you saying he isnt credible because he is a capitalist?

Interesting how you completely missed what I said in my first quote. I'll post it again. And to be extra clear, I'll put the key bits in italic - just for you.

Originally posted by Durden
His/her voting habits have little to do with anything. However in this case, his/her manner of reasoning certainly shines a light on the person behind the claims.

He could vote for Donald Duck for all I care.

Originally posted by Dae
Im not attacking you Durden, just wanting some clarifaction.

Not feeling at all attacked. If you need anything else clarified by my person. By all means ask again and I'll see what I can do.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by mind is the universe
I mean Sucicide theory of their's is bang out of order. people couldn't cope for whatever reason and it's one of the bravest thing to do by anyone.

Suicide is bad in every religion on earth. Its certainly not "one of the bravest thing to do by anyone". A lot of what sleeper says, minus the ET connection is very similar to buddhist teachings.

If you don't personally believe in a soul, then naturally any ideas about the soul would seem crazy...

But to compare sleeper to Jesus is a little bit of a stretch, don't you think? I mean I know he presents himself as a teacher.. and quite well, but I don't see any recruitment posters up here anywhere... any he already said you don't have to drink the kool-aid...

so if you compare him to Jesus... you might have people believing in the second coming... wouldn't that through a monkey wrench into evolution?

Well they both thrive on attention... Most people believe every single word they say?..................... He has simular beliefs to Buddha... ............oh dear, how respectful. I know the does and he know he get's ideas and other teachings to make the ultimate, Jesus was a jew, so what... and I know Sleeper Like's to mingle beliefs and cults and his OWN ideas into a perfect (((((All in one)))))

Like putting chocolate and chips and ice cream there all lovely to eat but better together. You get chocolate chip ice cream.... taking it to a whole new level.


Bottom line is these question will go on till our generations passes, and NOTHING About E.T will come alive from his teachings. He IS still on the same boat as he was on the other thread... just needs people to believe, It never goes any futher. sam with Jesus, It's today that we realise that we are following a belief from jesus mouth thats just a belief not fact.... Jesus was a teacher and knew how to draw the crowd this is what sleeper is in comparison. 2,000 years late Roman Catholicism is a dying religion, It's now corrupt and dictated by power.

E.T of Sleepers imaginations do NOTHING. only feed more questions and more brainqashing, can't anyone see this.....


Zorgon wheher I believe in the soul or not is not the point, and if i don't it does not matter. I don't think people are mad otherwise. But sleeper crosses the line between what is and what's is to be belived. You DON'T go around saying we are monitored bt ET without giving us evidence otherwise it's ignorance. Secondly HE does not know for certain that we are penalised if we commit sucicide. It's something that will never leave humanity. It's Nature, and it will not be defined. Especially since, We don't know what happens to the soul, only what other's want us to believe.... if the soul is real we will find out eventually. iIts like me saying I know EVERYTHING about Canada, (which I dont, but know a bit but i can ELABORATE will believe me) and i have the respect for people to ask me questions about CANADA. What happen's then?? nothing.... I just have to keep coming up with more ideas etc, to keep it going. For two years now we ARE still in asking the same questions to Sleeper, but you know what, we are still waiting paitently for what? comfort...




Sleeper won't answer my question because he knows I'm not fooled by it.

[edit on 17-7-2006 by mind is the universe]

[edit on 17-7-2006 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by Dae

Originally posted by Durden
And how else do you judge whether an anonymous poster could be considered credible, but through the content of their posts - no matter if they were written in PTS, ATS or BTS?

Yes, that is what you are saying - sleeper isnt credible because he has right wing veiws, or is there more to it? Are you saying he isnt credible because he is a capitalist?

But hey. Don't take my word for it.

Im not attacking you Durden, just wanting some clarifaction.

Clarrification... it's neither just sleeper's own thinking, define that whatever way you want. You know IMO this is more extreme than the average, left or right. Let's stick to what the topic that Sleeper loves to talk about, what he loves telling us without a SHRED of evidence, with arrogance, (because he know's better than skeptics)... that no credibility..

Originally posted by Dae

I suppose in the end of the day, it doesnt really matter, what matters is that we keep learning and asking questions

Needed a good laugh this morning. But he must have something. We keep coming back for more... that other thread made it to over 100 pages

I won't speak to any political undertone that may or may not be present in sleeper's stuff. But to highlight just one of the similarities between Buddhism and Sleeper's stuff:

How does the mind go from one body to another?

Think of it being like radio waves. The radio waves, which are not made up of words and music but energy at different frequencies, are transmitted, travel through space, and attracted to and picked up by the receiver from where they are broadcast as words and music. It is the same with the mind. At death, mental energy travels through space, is attracted to and picked up by the fertilised egg. As the embryo grows, it centres itself in the brain from where it later broadcasts itself as the new personality.

Taken from Buddha Net one of many places where I've been studying Buddhism for quite a while.


Worth noting that Buddhism doesn't believe in a Soul in the traditional sense most of us view it as. But it does believe that the core of your being carries over. I can probably find a way to explain that better. I'll post back on that later.



X

Originally posted by mind is the universe

E.T of Sleepers imaginations do NOTHING. only feed more questions and more brainqashing, can't anyone see this.....

Not gonna touch that Catholic line... don't want to derail this track...I think a lot of DO see this, yet both sides of the question are still here, and as you say have been for two years. Makes me ask WHY? Just what is the draw?

I think brainwashing is a little harsh in this case... I suppose if someone wanted to start a new religion, or cult, or just a following of an idea... this is the place. Seems a ready made and pliable audience world wide... and it keeps you in here debating for two years so you don't go out and see what's really going on [still think that IS the real conspiracy]

Those that believe will do so, and call those that don't blind or ignorant; those that don't believe have a need to convince those that do that they are wrong... hasn't changed for thousands of years. We toss in politics, we toss in religion... really they don't have much to do with ET, but mention the soul, you automatically stir up religion...and then the battle heats up... eventually closing a thread.

Zorgon wheher I believe in the soul or not is not the point,

Well I think it is, though I mean the "you" in general not just you... Hard to consider what anyone says regarding the soul to be true or false if one doesn't believe in it in the first place..

We don't know what happens to the soul, only what other's want us to believe.... if the soul is real we will find out eventually. iIts like me saying I know EVERYTHING about Canada,

But therein lies the whole argument. Religions have been telling us for centuries the "truth" about the soul,but even they don't understand that it is an individual thing. Once you, the self, comes to realise the truth, it has to work for you, not the masses.
Please don't use the "We" in the sence meaning all of us. Some do know... I KNOW their is a soul, but nothing I can say or do will ever convince another, so I don't try. But humans have an inherent need for others to believe them, so we discuss with, debate with and in some cases browbeat others to come around to our way of thinking. Lets see how many wars have been fought ? How many have died? All in the never ending battle over who is right.

It would be interesting if the belief present here IS true... wouldn't THAT be the joke on humanity? Maybe thats what draws us here?

You are absolutely right... it doesn't really matter whether or not the soul is real, we will know when we die. I have said that to many, I believe both John and Sleeper have said this... just go out and live a good life and don't worry about it...

BUT consider this IF there is a soul, would it not be wise to live life to the fullest and strive to "do the right thing" so that in case... just in case... there is something more... at least you have a clean book? Whether its God, Karma or ET, or ven just your own soul that sits in judgemnet so to speak it doesn't matter. Just a thought.
IF there is no soul, well at least you won't go down in history as Al Capone or a Hitler.

people to ask me questions about CANADA. What happen's then?? nothing.... I just have to keep coming up with more ideas etc, to keep it going. For two years now we ARE still in asking the same questions to Sleeper, but you know what, we are still waiting paitently for what? comfort...

For two thousand years people are still asking the same questions about God. ET is now on the minds of the human race because we are close to stepping off this rock... we need to know whats out there. IMO we are leaning away from God and more to ET because it is easier to grasp that others like us are out there and we need to know we are not alone. This is not about proving whether or not God is real, yet we mix and confuse those beliefs. We need to know about ET to be prepared .

No we will never get proof in here. Its not possible. Even if I showed you a polaroid picture of one, [and polarois are very hard to manipulate] you would still say its a fake somehow. I bet if one came and shook your hand [again "your" in general] many would say they were drugged or brainwashed...

So IS there any truth to the rumor that all Canadian live in Igloos? I hear they are very warm and cozy inside. You know I been seeing that car commercial, were the guy gives a lift to that dog sled.... They still use those, eh?

Ok Zorgon, I going to agree to dissagree.. Here it IS possible to get proof here. Hense they know the answer so what the SECRET. oh but wait we have to wait for this little little secret. bull.... But no John lear and Sleeper choose to be THAT way if you know what i mean. cus it's not real and if there's something WHY can't they make Logic out of it.. You NASA could come on here swipe this, but like me there not fooled by this....


Secondly you said it's a question we have being asking for thousands of years, Well if We have less "Sleeper types" maybe we can learn to be aware rather than getting preached from someone who refuses to give any REAL evidence..... Simple as that. As I said Sleeper will continue for another few years claiming he's being on spaceships...................................................................... NOTHING real is coming from his words, just more headlines, bit more detail and that's it.

NOw hold on, your even feeding Sleeper's EGO. So we come here to ask Sleeper EVERYTHING there is to Humanity sorry to burst his brains, but he aint mr. Know it all. He is just a rather human being. No that's sorted, who has not got uniqu extraordinary experiences than the rest of, now that's not to say you, I or him can.


What next we are monitored us E.t in .... It's disgusting if you ask me.


After this, it's moon bases and other E.T amongst our solar system, we die on mars but our soul will still arrive where it's meant quote from Sleeper should i post the wackier?, what nonsense are we willing to put up with and no just even believing it. which i WOULD not give any credit to. sure we;ll relate Buddha to it. My god. this is the level we are at.. I'm trying my best to keep it well mannered but..... At least Buddha does not claim they go around with E.T on vacation... please don't feed this.




[edit on 17-7-2006 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by Prote
Strange post. You seem to be making assumptions on my behalf, please refrain from doing so.
Let me put it to you this way. Could you please quote if you are going to make such statements. I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't make assumptions on anybody's behalf. I can't correct your misperceptions if you don't quote.




I merely responded to your question. The statements you pick up on are subjective.
Yes I know you were responding to my question. I have no clue to what you are talking about when you say I pick up on subjective statements.




The point of your posts seem to merely state that you aren't interested in what they have to say.
Now you are clearly confused. You mean if I disagree then I am not interested?




It's all a bit moot, there is no value to thread with this. Either follow it if you are interested or step out of the loop.
Excuse me? If I was being uninvited from your thread that would be one thing. Who do you think you are?

Originally posted by Xatnys


Worth noting that Buddhism doesn't believe in a Soul in the traditional sense most of us view it as. But it does believe that the core of your being carries over. I can probably find a way to explain that better. I'll post back on that later.

X

As I understand it, in buddhism, because nothing is constant, and everything changes, there cannot be a "soul." That is, an energy that is you. What does carry through is the core of your being, your very person. But, since you are only what your life experiences have made you, those personality traits usually dont carry through.

I.e. You dont know your you, after death, because what made you you is no longer there, therefore your not you.

Originally posted by mind is the universe Well if We have less "Sleeper types" maybe we can learn to be aware rather than getting preached from someone who refuses to give any REAL evidence.....

True... and I agree with you more than you think. Just been playing the devils advocate. But something is drawing people to this thread... and the last one was 107 pages on the same stuff. WWIII seems eminent, but we are in here.

I don't get it, what is the draw? [yes I know I'm still here too]

Well I know why I'm here. They still haven't answered me as to why now? IF this is true as they claim, why reveal it now? and in this manner? Sleeper did say he was going out of town a few days... so I be patient..


But you never answered my question about the Igloos. Is that something Canadians are trying to hide? hmmmm I wonder...

I mean sooo many places shooting its not true.. make you smell cover up

One

just google THIS CANADIANS LIVE IN IGLOOS

What? don't see this question any less valid than others asked here

Originally posted by WolfofWar


As I understand it, in buddhism, because nothing is constant, and everything changes, there cannot be a "soul." That is, an energy that is you. What does carry through is the core of your being, your very person. But, since you are only what your life experiences have made you, those personality traits usually dont carry through.

I.e. You dont know your you, after death, because what made you you is no longer there, therefore your not you.

That's kinda what I get too.

Like basically, external influences that are found in this physical reality throughout our existing here. Those influences help to form and change our perspective on a day to day basis. A core of us starts out with a clean slate, but many things come together around us to make your self into "you".

It's one thing that I agree with and disagree with at the same time. I think though, the more I meditate on it; that my disagreement comes from my internal ego, wishing to not believe that it shall perish after this cycle.


And I'm cool with that I can overcome ego to the extent of controlling it. It's a goal.


Maybe all our choices from all our sentient existences are stored for review, and I could dig that too!

X