OP/ED: Drudge Rape Poll: Disgusting

Quote : "Again, an ideal that you as a police officer ought to know cannot be realized by all people. This is the real world, not Malcolm in the Middle. Not everyone can be Luke Skywalker (who'd wanna be that pansy, anyway?)"

So just because "not everyone can be decent" we give up? We stop fighting the good fight? We stop insisting that RAPE is wrong? That the woman has the right to live her life regardless of whether you think she should be "somewhere" doing "something"

Again, RAPE IS NOT A SEXUAL CRIME.....It is ALWAYS, ALWAYS a crime of power, control and violence directed at the woman. NOT to satisfy sexual needs because she was wearing something sexual. If that was so, most rapes would happen at the beach.

I will gladly take the role of the "pansy" Luke Skywalker and to quote him:::


" I STAND IN YOUR WAY "

Originally posted by geek grrl

Originally posted by jsobecky
You're missing the point. Nobody is saying that NO means YES. What we are saying is "walking down a dark alley at 3 am wearing skimpy clothing" is not the smartest thing to do.

No Becky, you're missing MY point.

In even creating an issue about what a woman is wearing, where she is, and the time it is you are meaning to lay blame.

The name is not Becky.

I am not laying blame. That's the way you want to interpret it, though.

How often does the victim of a shooting get told, well, why were you in that neighbourhood? You knew there was danger... common sense! Hello!?!

Many times. Cops ask people what they are doing in drug houses all the time. And they make assumptions based upon someone's presence there.

But when a woman is raped, oh, well we better look at what SHE was doing at the time it happened... let's not focus on WHY SO MANY WOMEN ARE RAPED, regardless of when and where it happens.

There you go, trying to make it seem that that is my position.:shk:

The first level of personal safety belongs to the individual. Don't smoke, you may get lung cancer. Don't stick a needle in your arm, you might get AIDS. Etc.

There are times when you can minimize the risk to yourself. Why you refuse to acknowledge this is puzzling.

Now you can blame society, the gov't, and your milkman for allowing cigarettes to be sold, but the fact remains: You smoked for 20 years, despite all the warnings. This is a case where maybe you could have prevented it.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Now you can blame society, the gov't, and your milkman for allowing cigarettes to be sold, but the fact remains: You smoked for 20 years, despite all the warnings. This is a case where maybe you could have prevented it.

Ridiculous. Smoking has supposedly been proven to cause cancer.. wearing skimpy clothing or being in a bad neighbourhood has NOT been proven to cause rape. Rape victims are NOT chosen for their clothing but for percieved vulnerability.. by your reasoning woolen cardigons drive men wild as even little old ladies get raped.

[edit on 27-4-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Savonarola
You were raped as a child -

I don't know where you get that. I was not a child. I was a divorced young woman. Just FYI.

I misinterpreted. You said the rapist was the father of your friend. Then you said the rapist's 7 year-old son walked in. I assumed your friend and this man's young son were one and the same. I apologise.

jsobecky, you're far more eloquent than I.

-S

Originally posted by riley

Ridiculous. Smoking has supposedly been proven to cause cancer.. wearing skimpy clothing or being in a bad neighbourhood has NOT been proven to cause rape. Rape victims are NOT chosen for their clothing but for percieved vulnerability.. by your reasoning woolen cardigons drive men wild as even little old ladies get raped.

Well, riley, when you complete your studies of what causes rape, be sure to fill us in on all the control factors that "cause" rape, OK? That way, it should be a simple matter to eliminate rape; all we have to do is avoid those factors.

I saw a movie once where a girl was hitchhiking with clothes stuffed around her belly. She said, it would keep men from attacking her because she looked like she was pregnant.
The guy that picked her up said, "Sweetheart, there are some men who will rape you because you are pregnant."

I guess there are guys that get turned on because of cardigan sweaters, too.



[edit on 28-4-2006 by jsobecky]

[edit on 28-4-2006 by jsobecky]

[edit on 28-4-2006 by jsobecky]

You seemed to have missed my point completely. The cause of rape is a rapist choosing to rape. It's not due to women 'turning them on'.. it is the rape itself that does that. I read somewhere that some rapists are actually impotent when it comes to mutual sex.. it is the violence and power that gives them their kicks which makes a woman's outfit irrelevent.


[edit on 28-4-2006 by riley]

Jsobecky, you compare a woman who’s been raped to:
a person who chooses to smoke cigarettes getting cancer and
a person who chooses to use IV drugs getting AIDS.
You say that legally a woman can get away with just about anything she wants, as regards scanty clothing and sexual behavior. You emphasize legally several times, as if by some other standard, a woman is at fault.

And then you get upset at geek grrl and I and accuse us of trying to make you look like you blame the rape victim.

Dude, you make yourself look like that. No one is laying this on you. You can’t compare a rape victim to an AIDs IV-drug user and come out looking good.

Nobody’s refusing to acknowledge that people can minimize risk to themselves. We know that. I know that.

Here are a couple myths, however, that you may not be aware of:

MYTH: Many women claim that they have been sexually assaulted because they want revenge upon the man they accuse.

Only 4-6% of sexual assault cases are based on false accusation. This percentage of unsubstantiated cases is the same as with many other reported crimes.
…
MYTH: Persons who dress or act in a "sexy" way are asking to be sexually assaulted.

Many convicted sexual assailants are unable to remember what their victims looked like or were wearing. Nothing a person does or does not do causes a brutal crime like sexual assault.
Source

Now, I know you may not believe these rape facts, but that has little bearing on the truth.

Instead of staunchly holding onto your positions about rape and how it happens and why it happens, I suggest you educate yourself and deny ignorance. Learn about rape. You’re doing very little to help by taking the stance that a rape victim is like a cigarette smoker who gets lung cancer and then complains about it.

Take this Quiz and see what you actually do know.

Read about it.

Educate yourself.

All I can say is that every individual has the primary responsibility of protecting themselves. I gave several examples of how a person could get hurt.

You, and others, want to make that into a "jsobecky blames the woman" thread.

You're wrong.

From your source

Nothing a person does or does not do causes a brutal crime like sexual assault.

How does the author account for brutal gang rapes?

Analogies are useful tools and can be used to support a point. There is very rarely a perfect correlation between the actual incident and the analogy. That is where it takes some logic to see the point being made. I've learned that you rarely fail to make the connection, BH. Maybe my analogies are imperfect. Or maybe it's just you. Whatever; I don't care anymore.

Savonorola, I told you it would be tough to explain that.



[edit on 28-4-2006 by jsobecky]

[edit on 28-4-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by jsobecky
From your source

Nothing a person does or does not do causes a brutal crime like sexual assault.

How does the author account for brutal gang rapes?

I'm not sure I understand your question. In the context of the above quote, a persons who dresses or acts in a "sexy" way does not cause a brutal crime like sexual assault. Nothing they do causes it.

What DOES cause the crime are the men who take part in it.

Originally posted by jsobecky
There are times when you can minimize the risk to yourself. Why you refuse to acknowledge this is puzzling.

Now you can blame society, the gov't, and your milkman for allowing cigarettes to be sold, but the fact remains: You smoked for 20 years, despite all the warnings. This is a case where maybe you could have prevented it.

Let's continue this analogy.

So you liken smoking for 20 years to what? A woman wearing skimpy clothing? Being a prositute? Having to leave work at 3am? Just what is the comparable action by a woman that will cause rape? What can be connected to causing rape in such a way as smoking and lung cancer?

Are you saying that if, and only if, a woman dresses to whatever arbitrary standards you determine to not be sexually provacative, is not a prostitiute, stripper, drug addict, alcoholic, or sexually promiscuous, and is not out late at night alone then, and only then, is she completely free of any responsibilty for being raped?

Similarly, if one has never smoked, they cannot be blamed for being stricken with lung cancer?

Let me tell you this:
I will take no responsibility for my rape. That belongs in the hands of the one who did it to ME and I refuse to feel any guilt over it, I have felt enough pain. I am responsible for where I was and what I was doing, as always, but the who is accountable for the criminal action taken?

Originally posted by jsobecky
All I can say is that every individual has the primary responsibility of protecting themselves.

I just want to make it absolutely clear to you that I agree with you on this. I believe in 100% accountability, in fact. I believe that I attract the events of my life for learning and growing purposes. And it's each persons choice to be accountable or not. It's not for you to hold me accountable. It's something I choose for me.

I do not consider myself a 'victim' of rape. I am a survivor. I am a strong, resilient person.

Having said that, I have experienced several times in my life the complete theft of all my personal power. I have had men overpower me and take complete control of my physical self and take the most personal and private part of me, without my consent, as I struggled in protest. These experiences have impacted my life enormously, negatively and permanently.

So when I hear someone say that women put themselves in a 'bad positions' or use 'poor judgment' or 'dress inappropriately' or 'act sexy' or they're drunk or they don't use 'common sense' or they're strippers or prostitutes or she was out at 3 AM... without ever having ONCE put the blame and accountabiltiy where it belongs, directly on the rapist, sorry, but I get a little touchy.

Especially when it is the males among us who encourage women to do all of those things! Men want women to act and dress sexy and have a drink and release their inhibitions... And without men, there'd be no need for strippers and prostitutes. You encourage women to behave one way to please you - then say "Well, you have to use common sense... or you might just get yourself raped."

Yeah, I don't like that. Where's the logic here?

There are risks in life. We all take them, some more than others.

When a family gets hit by a drunk driver in a car accident, you don't hear anyone say, "Well, I feel sorry for them, but they were driving a car and you know car accidents are common. They really need to take some accountability for being on the road at the same time the drunk was..." How lame is that? The blame goes squarely where it belongs - on the drunk driver. No one even considers that the other person should hold some accountability.

Why is rape different?

Originally posted by dannia
The rape card? What rape card? What the hell does that mean?

It means a woman can say she was raped even if she was not....thus ruining the mans life forever.....Now point of fact even if these boys are found innocent there lives are ruined.By a Drunkin Stripper no less.


I think that if the Accused is going to be put out there for Public View and Scrutinity then so should the Accuser.because untill found GUILTY in a court of law they are as INNOCENT as SHE IS...RIGHT!!!!

Well now thats a fine attitude for the 1800's

I'm sorry but the statistics just do not support you. The VAST, VAST majority of Rape allegations are eventually proven, substantiated, just plain true.

so if one man has to endure some negative publicity so that MANY, MANY woman can be encouraged to come forth, to report this crime, then so be it. And just what does a rape allegation do to the man??? By your own statement, it is apparent that you would blame the "drunken stripper" so really no fault would be assessed to the man anyway. It is sorrry to say, but most of society would simply believe "she deserved it", "what did she expect wearing those clothes", "You can't tease a man like that and not expect something."

There is no excuse, no reason, no justification for RAPE.

No not even a "drunken stripper."

SHEESHHHH

Last I saw there hasn't been a rape proven so in this case can you really say she is a rape victim? She is claiming to be a rape victim. Just like she claimed to be a rape victim when she was 14. At that time she claimed that she was raped by 3 guys. Nothing came of it becaue it was determined back then that she wasn't raped either. This seems to be a woman with a history of telling lies about rape.

Is it ok to try and destroy the reputations of these guys before they are even convicted? It is ok to smear their names and pictures all over the press just because they were accuesd but you have to protect her name and face. So if these guys are found not guilty are you willing to have her charged with a sex crime and make her register as a sex offender because in my opinion making false claims of rape is a sex crime. They should smear her in the press then and lock her in prison for a number of years. Its only fair.

That is your opinion, however most do not agree.

No she would be guilty of filing a false report of crime.

and we all know there has been no conviction....we know it is alleged to this point. We all are aware of innocent until proven guilty.

As far as the drive-by press goes, I think they should shut their doors forever. I hate the press so I agree with you there 100%

I have yet to see any man's reputation DESTROYED by an allegation of rape. I would love to see some evience of that if it is out there. On the other hand, rape victims are likely to commit suicide, subject to severe depression, usually suffer PTSD, on and on.

Originally posted by police_officer339
Well now thats a fine attitude for the 1800's

I'm sorry but the statistics just do not support you. The VAST, VAST majority of Rape allegations are eventually proven, substantiated, just plain true.

so if one man has to endure some negative publicity so that MANY, MANY woman can be encouraged to come forth, to report this crime, then so be it. And just what does a rape allegation do to the man??? By your own statement, it is apparent that you would blame the "drunken stripper" so really no fault would be assessed to the man anyway. It is sorrry to say, but most of society would simply believe "she deserved it", "what did she expect wearing those clothes", "You can't tease a man like that and not expect something."

There is no excuse, no reason, no justification for RAPE.

No not even a "drunken stripper."

SHEESHHHH

Sure, police_officer... and the vast, vast majority of divorce cases end up with the children in the custody of the woman, NO MATTER if she's a drug addict or a stripper or whatever and the guy's the one that divorced her. The vast, vast majority of women get to decide to have an abortion even if the guy wants the kid... and the vast, vast majority of women get to decide if she wants to have the kid even if the guy wants her to have an abortion (paying child support, and most often her sorry ass, for 18 years). The vast, vast majority of "domestic abuse" comes from both sides... men are reported because we're stronger and can cause more physical harm. I've lived in an abusive situation, and my grandmother was just as much an idiot as my grandfather. The laws are simply dominated by feminism and special interest groups.

Women aren't angels just because they have vaginas or because they're weaker physically then men. I've been psychologically demolished by a woman's mouth before (the equivilent of emotional rape). Don't paint them out to be these PC-type "victims" because often they're perpetrators - even if what they do isn't technically illegal.

-S

Sorry for your situation
Yet you are wrong on many levels.

And what does all that have to do with Rape?

Abuse is another topic
abusive women still another
growing up in an abusive envronment, (sad) but another topic

This is very simple and to the point. What a woman wears, what she does, or does not do, how she behaves (whatever that is) and what we may think of her personally, does not justify rape.

And though most abused men choose to not report it, I think you will find it is not a nationwide epidemic.
Neither is women raping men.
However men raping women? yes that approachs near pandemic proportions.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jsobecky
All I can say is that every individual has the primary responsibility of protecting themselves.

I just want to make it absolutely clear to you that I agree with you on this.

That's good to hear, because I agree 100% with your statement that we should

put the blame and accountabiltiy where it belongs, directly on the rapist,

I see someone putting themself in a vulnerable position, I instinctively want to say "Be careful!". That's all.

For those of you that love shield laws and think they know the meaning of "No" here is some additional food for thought:

Jewish World News -- Sex, Lies and Prison
For the past six months, I've been staring at a 30-pound box filled with court documents and what's left of a young man's life following one college night and a 5- to 15-second disputed sex act.

That is, 5 to 15 seconds into the act of sexual intercourse, she said, "Stop."

He stopped immediately.

She claimed rape.

So what we have is a man in prison while this anonymous drug harlot is free to repeat her victimhood crap on others. So now you freaking know the meaning of the phrase "rape card" and you have a specific example of why shield laws are immoral, unethical and biased against men.

Granted.....However I do not see the word Freakin...being needed in an intellectual conversation.

And good illustration of ONE...1...O.N.E. while how mamy women are RAPED, DESTROYED and BRUTALIZED EVERY SINGLE DAY...

And people like you want to put them on parade. It is a very good indicator of the moral degradation of society as a whole that there is even a need for posts such as this. Yet, your posting illustrates how very much they are needed, to educate the ignorant, inform the uninformed and battle the forces of evil where ever they exist.

Again:::: RAPE is a CRIME OF VIOLENCE!!!!! It is NOT sexual in nature..
But here are some statistics in regards to your Rape Card...whatever that is.

www.sbrapecrisiscenter.org...


quote:
1.3 rapes per minute.
78 rapes per hour.
1871 rapes per day.
56,916 per month.
683,000 per year.
16% of rapes are reported to the police. (3)
QUOTE:

wonder how many of the 84% gone UNREPORTED would have reported it were there not such a fervor to expose who she is to the public. Or perhaps they chalked it up on their RAPE CARD.