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OP/ED: Drudge Rape Poll: Disgusting

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posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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This issue is really opening a whole can of moral whoopass.


#1 Lesson to the Raging Hormone Set: You don't go renting a stripper and expecting a prostitute after/just because she's got you all hot and bothered. There are distinctions boys, learn them.

If that's what happened, these gals need to bring along thier own 'escort', i.e. bodyguard (that ends up being a pimp?).


All of this is a very personal shocker to me. My son plays college lacrosse and has been enarmoured of the sport when he first discovered it in his freshman year. No such animal in this rural school district--I'd never heard of it before.

He's a 'walk-on' not one of their scholarship recruits, but since this college was in it's startup season, the coach welcomed him to the team. Incidentally, the coach that year was a black guy but he left that year and it's a new coach now (white guy). I thought it'd be a great college experience, guess I better put away the bragging rights, at least till they win a game.

The school itself is 75% women, a liberal arts catholic college--actually run by nuns, so I'm hoping that's a strong enough influence to keep this team respectful of women. That and the fact that I've been telling him since he was four that because of AIDS/HIV and the various std's he's not allowed to have sex till he's married. More like a steady stream of reminders of the consequences of those actions (and the actions of the girls he sees).

Thing is, these kids are underage, drinking and hiring dancers that they can't get into bars to see. But they can pool some cash and call up the 'service', and girls come to them. The idea that they have that they are somehow privileged, elite atheletes acting without a shred of dignity bothers me immensely. Is my kid thinking this way too? He dang sure isn't rich, but is this the crowd he's attached himself to?

The other problem is that this team too has a lacrosse house in town, the closest thing to a frat there. He'd been tossing around the idea of living there next year. Now six of them are moving into a dorm suite instead, so maybe the coach is having some talks with the guys and letting them know they'll not be getting him canned and that this kind of behaviour isn't acceptable in a nice catholic girl's school--the nuns'll kick their butts all the way to the monestary.


Lesson #2: Gangbanging is NOT an occupation of a gentleman--in any way, shape, or form.




posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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If you want to have sex just goto a college party with a clipboard and a concent form, ohh, and some condoms.

Still, a better idea is to control your animalistic urges and drives by channeling that energy into some other activity.



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 07:19 PM
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Well, let me just list a few things that have already ruined the life of not just the two men accused of this crime, but also the lives of the entire Duke Lacrosse team. One life ruined is that of the Duke’s men's Lacrosse team coach who amid pressure from the university resigned on April 5 shortly after this story emerged. The lives of the entire Duke Lacrosse team have also been ruined because their entire season has been cancelled and they must now bare the crisis for something that not all of them were even involved in.

Wait, the insanity gets better, and remember all this from an unproven allegation. The leading scorer for the Duke lacrosse team who had nothing to do with this alleged incident applied for a transfer to Syracuse University after Duke cancelled the season, and guess what, he was rejected. Not because he failed to meet any academic or athletic criteria, but because he just so happened to be on the Duke lacrosse team! So there you have it folks, those are just some of the burdens that these player and the people associated with them have to face without even a simple trial having occurred yet. Great society we live in eh? Pitiful. :shk:

One more thing, I was browsing the internet and I found a website (that I wont post) which was so vehemently against this apparent, although unproven crime committed by these two players. They were so against it that they proceeded to list the names and positions of every player on the Duke lacrosse team. What a stupid thing to do.



Duke lacrosse coach resigns, rest of season canceled

Shortly after the e-mail's release, lacrosse coach Mike Pressler resigned, ending a 16-year tenure marked by three Atlantic Coast Conference championships and a trip to last year's national final.

Brodhead called Pressler's resignation "highly appropriate" but declined to say whether it had been requested.

Brodhead said the investigation will include a probe of at the lacrosse team's culture and the school's response to the scandal to uncover any "special history of bad behavior with this team."

Link

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.




Duke transfers unwelcome here

At least one Duke University lacrosse player has indicated an interest in transferring from the troubled program. But Syracuse University athletic director Daryl Gross said Tuesday he will not sanction the transfer of any former Blue Devil to Syracuse.

"I think it would be inappropriate," Gross said.

The Orange recruited Greer, a 6-foot-2 sophomore attackman who led the nation with 57 goals last season, out of All Saints

Link

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


[edit on 21-4-2006 by WestPoint23]


df1

posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 07:49 PM
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This article is not about a lacrosse team and it is not about racism. It is about whether the names of women that claim rape should be shielded at the expense of the accused. Using this case to justify shielding the identity of the accuser is nothing but a strawman. The accused in this case are generally not very likeable people, which makes it very easy to agree with shielding the identity of the woman accusing them of rape in this case. The operation of the judicial system should not be dictated by the emotions of one case.

The laws and procedures of the judicial system need to be consistent for all crimes for the system to be fair to all concerned and this necessity should trump all arguements for anyone that is intellectually honest. This was the intent of the US Constitutions "equal protection clause" and imho it is applicable to rape shield laws.

Answer me this:
Does the shield law apply to men that are raped or are men not afforded this protection because the manner in which a man would be raped is not considered sex thus making it technically not rape?

[edit on 21-4-2006 by df1]



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by df1

...Does the shield law apply to men that are raped or are men not afforded this protection because the manner in which a man would be raped is not considered sex thus making it technically not rape?...


The law applies equally to men and women.



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by psyopswatcher

#1 Lesson to the Raging Hormone Set: You don't go renting a stripper and expecting a prostitute after/just because she's got you all hot and bothered. There are distinctions boys, learn them.

Lesson #2: Gangbanging is NOT an occupation of a gentleman--in any way, shape, or form.


Bravo(a).


df1

posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Bibliophile
The law applies equally to men and women.

Can you provide some links to cases where this law was applied to a male victim from any state that has such laws?

Surely this would have hit the news stands.



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by df1


Originally posted by Bibliophile

The law applies equally to men and women.


Can you provide some links to cases where this law was applied to a male victim from any state that has such laws?

Surely this would have hit the news stands.


While I do not have a link to hand, the applicability of this law to both sexes is common knowledge across the United States. This standard has been in force for at least a decade.



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by df1
Can you provide some links to cases where this law was applied to a male victim from any state that has such laws?


I think it's a states law issue, but most states have confidentiality laws. And they apply to any victim. It doesn't matter what sex the victim is, their name is kept confidential.

Male Rape Victims



The victim's name and facts about the assault will be kept confidential.


Mass. Confidentiality Laws



For rape and attempted rape, MA law prohibits public disclosure of a survivor's name. The survivor's name is to be blacked out in all police reports and court records and is not technically part of the public record. The court can fine anyone who discloses the victim's name without her/his consent (MGL 265, §24(c)).


df1

posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think it's a states law issue...

The "equal protection clause" applies to state laws, however your posts addresses the issue to my satisfaction though I still do not agree with identity shield laws. More significant than the wording of the law is whether it is equal in its application, which I suspect it is not.



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by df1
More significant than the wording of the law is whether it is equal in its application, which I suspect it is not.


Why do you suspect it's not? Do you know of or have you heard of any cases where a male rape victim's identity was not protected? If not, then from what do your suspicions stem?



posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by df1

More significant than the wording of the law is whether it is equal in its application, which I suspect it is not.


Perhaps you should excuse yourself from this topic. Your emotionalism is resulting in unsubstantiated speculation, which only fuels the flame, so to speak. Or is that your intention?


df1

posted on Apr, 21 2006 @ 09:51 PM
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BH,
Can you cite just one case where a male has used a rape shield law in any state? With so many here desiring to shoot down my position, I would think that it would have been posted by now. Because of this, I suspect that it has not happened even once.

Babblophile,
Wouldnt it be great if you could just curtly dismiss everyone that disagrees with you.



posted on Apr, 22 2006 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by df1

Babblophile,

Wouldnt it be great if you could just curtly dismiss everyone that disagrees with you.


Personal insults are a sure sign that you are allowing your emotions to rule you.

The fact that no one can cite a specific case of male anonymity on demand is hardly surprising. Male rape is rare and the US is a big country.

Speculating about how effective you think male anonymity has been and is now continues to undermine your position.

Since no one else has been successful in citing a case of male anonymity, and you are making an unsubstantiated statement regarding its effectiveness, perhaps you should take the lead and prove your thesis that it is not effective.



posted on Apr, 22 2006 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by df1
BH,
Can you cite just one case where a male has used a rape shield law in any state?


I probably can take the time to search for one and find it. But not right now. But the law is clear. The victim's identity is kept confidential, regardless of gender. To prove that men are not treated equally, the burden really is on you. You're voicing a 'suspicion' and asking us to prove you wrong. Well, why don't you bring some proof to the table to support your 'suspicions' instead of sitting back and waiting for us to prove that the law is carried out?

Your position is totally in your head so far. Or perhaps more like on your shoulder. But the point is you have no real basis to support your claim (that we know of). It's not my job to look for something to allay your suspicions.

And I wouldn't be terribly suprised if there are cases out there where the victim's identity wasn't kept confidential. Man or woman. The law isn't always perfectly executed.

But for you to claim that confidentiality is a grace afforded only to females, YOU need to come up with something more than a suspicion.



posted on Apr, 22 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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Both accused and accuser deserve privacy. Only when the accused gets conviced should that persons anonymity be forfeited. As for the accuser, they should be anonymous unless they waive that right. However, if the accuser is proven to be just pulling peoples chains for whatever reason, then part of the punishment for wasting peoples time should be a loss of anonymity. While the trial is ongoing it should be held under wraps no matter who is involved.


df1

posted on Apr, 23 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by Bibliophile
you should take the lead and prove your thesis...

My thesis is proven, no one can find even one instance of this law being used to shield the identity of a male, because such an instance does not exist. So while the wording of the law(s) may be not discriminatory against males, these law(s) are in fact discriminatory as the law(s) are never used to protect the identity of a male.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
YOU need to come up with something more than a suspicion.

Admit it, you have both scoured the internet and you can't find just one example.

What a bunch of wind bags.



posted on Apr, 23 2006 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by df1
My thesis is proven


Where's your data? The absence of data proves absolutely nothing!



Originally posted by df1
Admit it, you have both scoured the internet and you can't find just one example.


I admit it, I have scoured the Internet and cannot find a story where it specifically states that a particular male rape victim's identity was protected. In fact, I cannot find a news story about a male rape victim at all. So by your scientific method, that proves males don't get raped.


I also cannot find a story where a male rape victim's identity was released.

Can you?

So it seems there's no proof either way. However, there's all kinds of information on the law and the laws don't differentiate the gender of the victim. I'm afraid your accusations remain in your imagination.



[edit on 23-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Apr, 23 2006 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by df1
My thesis is proven, no one can find even one instance of this law being used to shield the identity of a male, because such an instance does not exist. So while the wording of the law(s) may be not discriminatory against males, these law(s) are in fact discriminatory as the law(s) are never used to protect the identity of a male.


It's not proven at all. People just aren't willing to do research for YOU to either support or deny a claim YOU are making.

I have not looked for an example - you can do that. However, if there is an absence of an example then it's not quite so black and white as you'd like to make it.

We could go into a lot of things that are a cause for a lack of an example - some of them do involved biased laws, but not all of them.

Get off your pedastal already.


df1

posted on Apr, 23 2006 @ 06:47 PM
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BH,
You made my case for me.

Shield laws are a bad idea because of the anonymity provided by shield laws prevents the judicial system from being transparent to the public and this renders the public impotent to provide any oversite of the judiciary. This is a dangerous precident to set, no matter how noble the intentions seem. It is imperative that the public have the ability to scrutinize the workings of the judiciary in all cases. And as you have demonstrated, this is not possible for cases covered by the shield laws.

Babblofile,
Now Im done...



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