ATS: 911 Scholars for Truth Member Murdered

Originally posted by esdad71
Does anyone know what type of weapon was used? This could lead us to what type of crime it was. 22 and 25 slugs leave little forensic evidence and are the generally the chosen caliber of such crimes that do not want ot be traced? Did they pick up the shells?

It's interesting that there's no new news on the Internet about this case, huh?

or did the kid just reach forward to protect his mother, the shooter freaked and shot him twice at close range. He was shot twice in the head and did not die on the scene, which means this was not two to the forehead.

Witnesses state he did NOTHING to provoke it and was shot AFTER the mother handed over the purse. From the original source:

She handed it over but one of the robbers pulled a gun, and without provocation, shot Zebuhr in the head.

www.dailymail.com...
According to police statistics, it was the city's 12th homicide in 2006. Police said robberies have increased by 39 percent in the first three months this year compared to 2005.

Seems that there is also a crime spree that seems to be taking place. It is not uncommon for an investigation to take a few weeks or months. If they had arrested someone the day after you guys would argue he is an "Oswald" or a patsy.

www.twincities.com...
Robbery reports in the Southwest Minneapolis precinct have climbed to 100 from 60 this time last year, police said. Aggravated robberies involving weapons or violence increased more dramatically, rising to 60 from 27.

This article states that they are looking for 2 young black youths 18-21. Would this not add to the gang angle?


This young man was working on polymers to help to repair broken limbs, and it is a shame that his research will go unfinished in a field where he could have helped quite a few people.

Originally posted by esdad71
Does anyone know what type of weapon was used? This could lead us to what type of crime it was. 22 and 25 slugs leave little forensic evidence and are the generally the chosen caliber of such crimes that do not want ot be traced? Did they pick up the shells?

A police report with ballsitic information would go a long way to resolve this in this forum.

Kare.11

Police went back to where the items were tossed from the car windows and found three loaded handguns. And the three they took into custody, two men and a woman, have lengthy criminal records. Now the question is, are they in anyway linked to the murder, in Uptown, of Michael Zebuhr.

"At this point members of our criminal investigation division are saying there's no connection, however we will be exploring that possibility," cautioned Police spokesman Ron Reier.

Investigators will be doing ballistics tests to see if any of the recovered handguns match up to a bullet that may have been recovered from the body Zebuhr.

That is from the original article provided by the author of this thread. I was just wondering why a more recent article I posted said Police hadn't arrested any suspects. Perhaps the reporter hadn't done his/her homework before writing the article, or something.

EDIT: Done is spelt with a D, gone isn't.

[edit on 29-3-2006 by Code_Burger]

Originally posted by Code_Burger
I was just wondering why a more recent article I posted said Police hadn't arrested any suspects. Perhaps the reporter hadn't gone his/her homework before writing the article, or something.

They said there's no reason to connect these 3 people with the murder. That's why no suspects have been arrested. There's no reason to call these 3 people suspects.

? Maybe?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Code_Burger
I was just wondering why a more recent article I posted said Police hadn't arrested any suspects. Perhaps the reporter hadn't gone his/her homework before writing the article, or something.

They said there's no reason to connect these 3 people with the murder. That's why no suspects have been arrested. There's no reason to call these 3 people suspects.

? Maybe?

Well, the initial report said they were doing Ballistics tests on the weapons apparently thrown out of the car. I didn't think they had the results of those tests in yet, and if they have, they certainly haven't issued a statement saying anything of the sort. So if they've ran ballistics tests, or are running ballistics tests on the weapons of three people arrested in suspicion of this crime, then Police have arrested suspects. One of the three is still in custody, also, apparently (although I'm not sure if it's for a related crime).

Originally posted by Code_Burger
........................
So why are you still saying it was gang members, and that you know what happened?

did i say I know what happened?.... I am going with what is known for now, it appears to have been a mugging that went wrong...if any "evidence" comes up that proves it was something more than just a mugging that went wrong, then I'll change my mind.... otherwise the one who is speculating as to what this was is you....

Speculation is not evidence....

Originally posted by Code_Burger
And this is evidence that Michael Zebuhr's murder was a mugging how? Sounds like complete speculation to me (again).

I never said that was proof that he was murdered....did I say that on the statement?.... Stop puting words in my mouth..... I just find it strange that in the same way that most criminals deny the crimes they commit, there are people out there that want to immediately deny what seems to have happened, and want to claim that "the government did it"... nowadays too many people want to immediately put blame on the government for everything....

Originally posted by Code_Burger
Yes, I am well aware, thank you, and so should you ought to be. Could I ask why you are doing the exact opposite of that motto? I thought a rule of ATS was that you are not allowed to post information you know to be false?

And what the hell is the evidence that it could have been anything more than a mugging going wrong?....

Some people are relying on speculation and trying to pin the "oh, it was the government who did it" tag to this....

Where is the evidence of this?.... all i see is speculation and people trying to tag this crime immediately as "the government did it"...

until clear evidence is found that this was more than just a mugging, imo, it was a mugging gone wrong....

Want to sue me for that?....go ahead....

[edit on 29-3-2006 by Muaddib]

i find it rather weird that the police seem to say something different everytime.

all the way from"matching the description of the muggers and the getaway car" and, "do ballistic tests to see if the bullet matches the guns thrown from the car", to, "suspects released", and "no suspects".

is it fairly 'okay' to throw your loaded gun from a moving car while you speed through red lights trying to evade the police in minneapolis?

i also find the lack of mentioning the fact that it was TWO shots to the head, a little 'odd'.

Knowing a lot about people and what happens when it comes to being robbed...usually if you cooperate with the robbers, they leave quickly.

However...we don't know if the guy made a smart-mouthed "I'm gonna get you" comment to the robbers...or if he was watching the robbers faces very carefully...as in memorizing it, and the robber didn't like it or whatever.

I also know...as far as conspiracies go...this does sound way too coincidental since he was a 9/11 Truth Scholar...just remember...the people who do cover-ups...are usually very good and practiced at it.

It was 2 shots to the head, but he lived and died later in the hospital. Pretty crummy aim. Does this sound like a professional hit to you? Would they not walk up behind them, 2 to the 'back' of the head, drop teh gun and walk away...

Originally posted by esdad71
It was 2 shots to the head, but he lived and died later in the hospital. Pretty crummy aim. Does this sound like a professional hit to you? Would they not walk up behind them, 2 to the 'back' of the head, drop teh gun and walk away...

Something that is professionally orchastrated (assination made to be easily written off to look like a routine mugging to the public) doesn't mean it was professionally executed.

I, for one (not that anyone pays attention to my posts here) do think it was a thug...3 of them...but not a routine mugging. They were average people coerced and or paid to do the hit...and take the fall if necessary....without ever knowing who he was or why.

The three who led the police on a chase and tossed their guns may have had nothing to lose. Do we know about their records? Do we know about their affiliations? Could not have someone said if they did this job some loved one on the inside would catch a break and an early release... if they talk not only will that loved one be killed but all of their loved ones as well...mothers and sisters and so sworn to secrecy and frearing their own lives and that of loved ones-they did the job.

Of course a professional hit was not used. That would make him a martyr and validate their cause and help prove the truth about 911.

it is still a 'perfect crime' to me.

I'm reading your posts, twice on this one, it seems. I had deja vu big time reading it, right down to your misspelling orchestrated. I think 2 much too, but I also think you are right on in your speculation about this incident.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I'm reading your posts, twice on this one, it seems. I had deja vu big time reading it, right down to your misspelling orchestrated. I think 2 much too, but I also think you are right on in your speculation about this incident.

The deja vu is probably because I've misspelled it elsewhere on this thread and keep restating my view in various ways because it seems I'm on everyone's ignore list or something!

(I have taken to writing longer posts in an open email and running spell check for spelling and typing errors-maybe I should with my shorter ones too!)

thanks for the feedback-nice to know I'm not talking to myself sometimes.

I had to check twice, but I found where you had used that word before. That could be the source of my deja vu, but it didn't seem like it at the time. Just goes to show anything is possible, I guess.

I was wondering when this nonsense would start.

The beauty of living in a free country where people are fre to rape, kill, main and come up with ridicuous conspiracies.

It is sad that another human has lost his life.
It was a mugging pure and simple. But whatever the reason when someone from the "truth" movement dies this would be a "black op". They could have died of cancer aged 93 and some conspiracy nut would claim the victim was silenced for what they knew.

I thought cuckoo land was Switzerland until I read most of the 9/11 posts.
Jeeze. What a about starting a real truth movement here is my hypothesis.....there was a bunch of terrorists and they flew some planes into some buildings?? Scary huh.

What do you people really achieve sitting there, your wives / girlfriends (if yo indeed have one) becoming computer / conspiracy widows, while you sit there for ages going through hours of video and images trying to get to the truth. You dont need to. Even if there were an alternative rea;ity to those events you will never, ever prove it so why waste time trying? Because the truth needs to be told??

Well it does. You people are dillusional. The USA has never had to deal with such events on its mainland and the trauma / shock has hit you bad.
To other peoples, such events are part of their living memory / history and conspiracy plays little part in their lives.

Just get on with your life, you can enjoy it.

The human mind is powerful, if you look long enough you can find anything
but whether what you find exists beyond your mind who knows? You never will, your dillusion will mask rationality.

Originally posted by Il Papa
You people are dillusional. The USA has never had to deal with such events on its mainland and the trauma / shock has hit you bad.

Not to stop you from assuming things about people, but I wasn't traumatized by the events at all. I went home that night and slept just fine. And I thought it was a terrorist attack back then.

You might want to check some polls. There've been two CNN polls, some other independent poll, and there's a poll in the 9/11 forum on this website. The vast majority of people believe there is a cover up.

If there's any minority of people that can't face up to the facts, it would be those who believe the official story. Can't come to terms with their own government being just like any other world power in history: extremely corrupt.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by bsbray11]

According to the T&C's of the site, we are allowed to discuss eachothers' opinions but not belittle eachother.

Il Papa, what you are doing is called trolling, and it has no place on this site. Not that I haven't done it before, defensively, just that I have learned it is the wrong approach to informed discussion.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by Icarus Rising]

I had been searching Google News for any new developments in the Zebuhr case, and I came across a Blog with an article on the subject, commenting on, and linking back to the ATS thread here. There was no new information contained there except for a little update edited in at the bottom;

UPDATE: Jim Fetzer--philosophy professor at the University of Minnesota-Duluth, author of the Wellstone-was-rubbed-out book, "American Assassination: The Stange Death of Senator Paul Wellstone," and founder of 9/11 Scholars for Truth- - reports that he has talked to a Minneapolis homicide detective and, based on that conservation, believes there is no connection between Zebuhr's killing and his involvement with the 9/11 truth movement.

Jim Fetzer's comments on this situation are neccesary reading for anyone following this story. According to the report he published on the 29th, regarding a conversation held with a Minneapolis Homicide detective working the Zebuhr case, the Police do have suspects in Custody, and that "It's rather a long story, which will be in the public domain soon".

It's looking considerably less like Government Foul-play at this time.

Code_Burger, did you and Muaddib stage that whole pissing-contest you had in this thread just for the drama value?

Are you going to turn around now and eat crow in front of the entire board?

I read that little blurb and it did nothing to allay my suspicions. It seemed more intended to prevent a panic or premature backlash from the other members of the movement, than any kind of statement about what really happened. Just because the police have no reason at this point to connect the killing to S9/11T doesn't mean there won't be anymore discovery in the case, nor that there isn't something fishy about the whole thing. In fact, this is exactly how I would expect the investigation to progress at this point.

I don't mean you any disrespect, and I don't want to come off too harsh, but your last post looks like a red herring.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Code_Burger, did you and Muaddib stage that whole pissing-contest you had in this thread just for the drama value?

I resent that. I have actually decided to just stop replying to Muaddib altogether, for several reasons which I do not think it necessary to list here. I have made myself quite clear in previous replies to that character, I think.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Are you going to turn around now and eat crow in front of the entire board?

What do you mean by this?

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I read that little blurb and it did nothing to allay my suspicions. It seemed more intended to prevent a panic or premature backlash from the other members of the movement, than any kind of statement about what really happened.

I would be lying if I said all of my suspicions are extinguished, Icarus Rising. The Police chief could have told all manner of lies, and, like you have pointed out...

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Just because the police have no reason at this point to connect the killing to S9/11T doesn't mean there won't be anymore discovery in the case, nor that there isn't something fishy about the whole thing.

(They are saying they do have suspects in custody, now, remember, so they may know something we don't)

All that's left after that is to question the true identity and agenda of Fetzer himself, but I would consider that extremely paranoid at this time, at least until we have any reason to believe otherwise.

Icarus Rising, we don't know that this was a hit orchestrated by whatever Government elements or agencies are in place to orchestrate these kinds of things, it might have been, and it sure looks suspicious, but we don't know anything for sure, do we? If the Founder of the 9/11 Truth Movement makes a statement such as this about the murder of one of his own members then should we not wait a little to listen to this "rather long story" from the Police that will "soon be in the public domain"? We need to hear what is said before jumping to premature conclusions, I think.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I don't mean you any disrespect, and I don't want to come off too harsh, but your last post looks like a red herring.

What do you mean by Red Herring, Icarus Rising? I'm just trying to get to the truth here. Maybe I should have worded my last post differently, so as to be more clear that I am not ruling out any possibilities at this time.





[edit on 1-4-2006 by Code_Burger]

I'm sorry. I am not trying to insult you. Your last post was so out of character with the rest of your posts to this thread that I thought someone had hijacked your screen name for a second.

red herring - 2) something used to divert attention from the basic issue.

eating crow is a way of saying you admit you were wrong about something

I'm having a little crow myself for a snack right now.

Again, my apologies.