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ATS: 911 Scholars for Truth Member Murdered

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posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 07:10 PM
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Which ever way you look at this, the whole situation stinks bad and I'd bet all I have that black ops is in on this in some way. The sloppy is a cover - if it was too neat it would be obviously professional. This was a work of art and experience designed to scare the hell out of anyone who might take a lead from the victim.
Do you think that sites like this are not monitored? They know who we are and they know who the threats are.




posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Sorry if this already has been posted - but I just found it. Very interesting. Chavez certainly is antagonizing the Bush administration. First, by shipping free heating oil to poor Americans. Now this.


Venezuelan Government To Launch International 9/11 Investigation: Truth crusaders Walter and Rodriguez to appear on Hugo Chavez's weekly TV broadcast

Billionaire philanthropist Jimmy Walter and WTC survivor William Rodriguez this week embarked on a groundbreaking trip to Caracas Venezuela in which they met with with the President of the Assembly and will soon meet with Venezuelan President himself Hugo Chavez in anticipation of an official Venezuelan government investigation into 9/11.

Rodriguez was the last survivor pulled from the rubble of the north tower of the WTC, and was responsible for all stairwells within the tower. Rodriguez represented family members of 9/11 victims and testified to the 9/11 Commission that bombs were in the north tower but his statements were completely omitted from the official record.

...The US government attempted to sabotage the trip by putting Rodriguez, who has been decorated at the White House itself, and Walter on a no fly list.




posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I'm sorry. I am not trying to insult you. Your last post was so out of character with the rest of your posts to this thread that I thought someone had hijacked your screen name for a second.


Apology accepted. With all due respect though, if you thought the post before last was out of character for me, then you have misjudged my character. I've actually been saying all throughout this thread that it's very possible this was your run of the mill sick, brutal, Mugging. I've said it about 5 times. I have never claimed that this was definatly a black operation of some description on any occasion, at all. I said I was leaning towards that direction with what I thought had happened, but what I think happened, and what I know happened, are two different things. The new information I have found has cast doubt on what I previously speculated. We will have to wait and hear the apparently imminent explanation for this whole thing before we can really say anything else.

I stand by my post, Icarus Rising.



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 09:49 PM
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I have no idea what your character is like. I said the post was out of character with the rest of your posts to this thread. Nothing personal about you at all. It is impossible for me to misjudge your character, as I know nothing about you. I am speaking only in terms of your posts to this thread, and I would call that last one in question a flip-flop if you were John Kerry.

You are free and welcome to stand by whatever you want, Code_Burger.

I meant what I said, too. That post had me wondering what all the shenanigans between you and Muaddib were really all about. Ego, maybe. Whatever. I think you made a good decision not to go into it with him anymore. Let's you and I do the same, ok?

Peace. Out.



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 09:58 PM
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blogs.citypages.com...

You guys might find this interesting.....Plus the fact that one of the founders states that there is no connection.



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Are you saying that people haven't been shot by being quiet and just looking at the criminal?


You tell me.


These days, and more so in big cities, if you look at someone and they don't like the way you are looking at them you could get shot, and you didn't even have to say a word.


It all depends on the circumstances, but I would say that your generalization would be more apt if you focused on issues such as race and poverty. A white guy in a black impoverished neighborhood who comes with attitude won't last long. A white guy on Michigan Ave. in Chicago giving attitude to another white guy will probably survive the incident.

The problems that give rise to this type of behavior (shooting over attitude) can usually (not always) be linked to poverty and a lifetime of discrimination both on economic as well as racial grounds. As a nation we have chosen to build more prisons and make more bad behavior felonies so we can lock up more of the poor people who piss us off. The present target includes eleven million Mexican immigrants who crossed the border without permission.


Some people don't want to accept that the "simplest" anwser is more likely than a "plot to kill this man". Unless there is some evidence that definetly says this was something else than what it is, all people are doing is speculating.


We're all speculating. Even the cops. My concerns stem more from the new policy overseas whereby our military or contractors shoot to kill journalists and other innocents deemed unfriendly to the cause. The practiced ease of murder with our present govt. makes me suspicious, yes. Not to say I would be suprised if it were simply a mugging. However I make no assumptions as to motive without substantial evidence. By the same token, what the govt. decides the motive was will not move me either.


If the police worked cases based on speculation and not on the evidence, they will never solve any case...


Actually, the police are there to simply gather evidence and preserve evidence. The detectives try to put the puzzle together for the prosecutor to make a decision on charging. Keep in mind that planned criminal activity typlically includes 'covering tracks' with the intent of throwing the detectives off their trail. For this reason it is important that investigators consider a wide range of possibilities before adopting one theory. You might call that speculation.


We have jails full of people that if you ask them if they are guilty of the crimes they committed, most of them will say they are innocent despite the truth that they did commit a crime. They will try to deny at all cost what they did.


No human does a thing which that person believes was 'wrong' in the global sense of the word. Every person does what that person concludes is 'right'. The distinction lies in the perspective of the individual. I'm reminded here of the quote in the movie "Unforgiven" with Clint Eastwood where his young side kick, after murdering a 'bad guy' while he was sitting on the crapper says to Clint, "I guess he had it comin'."

Clint replies, "We all got it comin' kid."


Deny ignorance is ATS's motto, not Deny the truth.


Truth is an ever changing thing based upon the individual's perspective.

Another way to say 'deny ignorance' would be 'open up to the endless possibilities'. By this I mean to say you should not assume that all those convicted of crimes and rotting in jail or on death row are guilty of anything. Many are actually innocent. Nothing personal, but by denying that truth you announce your own ignorance.


WASHINGTON (AP) — Thousands of suspects unable to afford lawyers are wrongly convicted each year because they are pressured to accept guilty pleas or have incompetent attorneys, the American Bar Association says in a report.
www.usatoday.com...



posted on Apr, 1 2006 @ 11:59 PM
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Hmmmmmmmmm...........
Reminds me of JFK conspiracy of witnesses or in some relations to assassination getting (coincedentally) murdered.



posted on Apr, 2 2006 @ 01:10 AM
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i think the official story will be that these events are unrelated, and yet, i also think that they wouldn't admit if they were related.
as others said, the way 'super' black ops happen, is that they are completely untraceable.
it is good to know there are suspects, now.

even if this IS unrelated, it is good to see that (some)people are vigilant.

i notice that he was a microbiologist. poor guy. double jeapordy.



posted on Apr, 2 2006 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I am speaking only in terms of your posts to this thread, and I would call that last one in question a flip-flop if you were John Kerry.


Now you're really taking the Piss. Would you rather I hadn't posted that information just because it casts doubt as to whether this is a Government operation? So what are you saying here? This was a Government Operation, and I'm a bad person because I posted important information suggesting the contrary?


Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I meant what I said, too. That post had me wondering what all the shenanigans between you and Muaddib were really all about. Ego, maybe. Whatever. I think you made a good decision not to go into it with him anymore. Let's you and I do the same, ok?

Peace. Out.


I think you ought to go back and read my exchanges with Muaddib again, you do not seem to have fully grasped the jist of things at all. When have I ever said that this thing was anything? Please don't put words into my mouth, Icarus Rising, I don't appreciate it. You're so paranoid you wont even take what Fetzer has to say into consideration, even though he is the founder of the 9/11 truth movement whose members murder we are currently discussing. His words must hold some weight with you, right? Now that there apparently is one, I'm going to wait before the Official story on this is released before I start calling it an outright lie, or some kind of fabrication (which I still suspect it might be), just because I'm suspicious.


Originally posted by esdad71
blogs.citypages.com...

You guys might find this interesting.....Plus the fact that one of the founders states that there is no connection.


Link theft! I had already posted this. Does anyone actually bother reading other peoples replies to the thread they are posting in? Damn.



posted on Apr, 2 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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The only thing that surprises me is that more truth scholars have not been whacked. Not that I want them to be, mind you. America needs critically thinking heroes like them to really take a hard look at the whole of 9/11.

They have been doing a great job, lending some acedemic credibility as well as good, solid research and scrutiny against the offical party line. I am surprised that they have been allowed to go on this long and digging up good dirt. The powers that be perhaps were slow to act, thinking that if they started cacking scholars early, it would send off too obvious of warning bells. But now they act. Will others die in "unfortunate accidents" or "random killings" or "health problems"?

Remember that almost all of the soldiers who were involved in the Jessica Lynch rescue are all dead................



posted on Apr, 2 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Remember that almost all of the soldiers who were involved in the Jessica Lynch rescue are all dead................


is there a thread or link to more info?
that's big news in my sanctum.
funny, jessica herself hasn't been seen or heard from since she denied the whole penta-lie.

i hope people stop believing in coincidence, soon.



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by seattlelaw

You tell me.


Yes, people have been shot, beat to death, and stabbed to death just for looking at someone who didn't like the way there were looked at.


Originally posted by seattlelaw
It all depends on the circumstances, but I would say that your generalization would be more apt if you focused on issues such as race and poverty.


Wether is is an issue of race, or poverty, or hatred, or whatever else could be, it does happen.



Originally posted by seattlelaw
As a nation we have chosen to build more prisons and make more bad behavior felonies so we can lock up more of the poor people who piss us off. The present target includes eleven million Mexican immigrants who crossed the border without permission.


Was someone talking about "generalizations"?

So, is it alright for someone who breaks the law and gets in jail for it to get out of jail and go on a revenge spree? I don't see your point.


Originally posted by seattlelaw
We're all speculating. Even the cops.


We have facts, we know it was an attempted robbery, we know that for some reason one of the robbers shot this man in the face twice, who died later in a hospital, he didn't die immediately, which proves that the shooter is not an expert. Speculation comes when people start claiming that this was a black op, that it was done by CIA agents or whoever, etc, etc.



Originally posted by seattlelaw
My concerns stem more from the new policy overseas whereby our military or contractors shoot to kill journalists and other innocents deemed unfriendly to the cause.


Overseas policies by our military to shoot journalists?.... Please...

If any journalist has been shot was probably by accident, not "because the military wanted to kill him"..... and if any soldier does commit a crime he pays for it.




Originally posted by seattlelaw
The practiced ease of murder with our present govt. makes me suspicious, yes.


"Practiced ease of murder"?.... There is a war being fought over there, and in war people do tend to act on their instints... If you are talking about the insurgent who was shot in the head by a Marine when the insurgent was injured, the Marine reacted to a possible threat, the insurgent was fighting against the Marine and his fellow soldiers, and that Marine had been injured that same day by a roadside bomb which was placed in the body of an insurgent he approached to check....


Originally posted by seattlelaw
Actually, the police are there to simply gather evidence and preserve evidence. The detectives try to put the puzzle together for the prosecutor to make a decision on charging. Keep in mind that planned criminal activity typlically includes 'covering tracks' with the intent of throwing the detectives off their trail. For this reason it is important that investigators consider a wide range of possibilities before adopting one theory. You might call that speculation.


Detectives put puzzles together based on facts, if they have a gut feeling about who is guilty they try to get a confession to see if their gut feeling is right, but at the end, they work with facts.


Originally posted by seattlelaw
Many are actually innocent. Nothing personal, but by denying that truth you announce your own ignorance.


i never said all people in jail are guilty, I said "we have jails full of people who say they are innocent", there is a difference.

BTW, I find it ironic that you would call me ignorant when I didn't make a generalization and didn't say "all people in jail are guilty", yet you yourself generalized all our soldiers as murderers when you said, and I quote:


My concerns stem more from the new policy overseas whereby our military or contractors shoot to kill journalists and other innocents deemed unfriendly to the cause.


Perhaps you should take your own advice instead of trying to generalize our military as "murderers"....



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
Sorry if this already has been posted - but I just found it. Very interesting. Chavez certainly is antagonizing the Bush administration. First, by shipping free heating oil to poor Americans. Now this.


And how unbiased do you think this....investigation done by Chavez and his Communist/socialist/liberal friends is going to be?....

Chavez has said himself in his speeches that Capitalism must be destroyed, etc, etc...spewing the same agenda and propaganda that his friend and mentor castro did to the poor people of Cuba and who fell for his lies, just like the poor people of Venezuela did with Chavez.

Anyways, that is for another topic.

But this move by Chavez and ....Alex Jones... is the same as the Iranian president who claimed the Holocaust was a myth, making other similar statements, and then saying they will make an inquiry as to the facts behind the Holocaust.....


[edit on 3-4-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 11:36 AM
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o.p. by Muaddib
one of the robbers shot this man in the face twice, who died later in a hospital, he didn't die immediately, which proves that the shooter is not an expert


It does nothing of the sort. The unfortunate young man may have been brain dead immediately, and simply received medical attention quickly enough to preserve involuntary nerve function that would have kept his body technically alive until he was removed from life support or the effects of the original injury overwhelmed his involuntary nerve function.

What are you trying to prove, anyway? You have already proven something to me.



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by billybob


is there a thread or link to more info?
that's big news in my sanctum.
funny, jessica herself hasn't been seen or heard from since she denied the whole penta-lie.

i hope people stop believing in coincidence, soon.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here you are. Its pretty old news really. But yeah. I think damn near all of em are dead, Im pretty sure.



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
......................
You have already proven something to me.


Oh really?...

What have I proven to you if I may ask?....

and you better have something concrete to back up the statement I think is on your mind, otherwise you will look like an ignorant fool.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Apr, 3 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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You've proven to me with the statement I quoted that you don't know what constitutes proof.

You are making an inordinate effort to discredit this thread, to the extent that I'm wondering if you are trying to take over as the board's reigning mouthpiece.



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
You've proven to me with the statement I quoted that you don't know what constitutes proof.

You are making an inordinate effort to discredit this thread, to the extent that I'm wondering if you are trying to take over as the board's reigning mouthpiece.


board's reigning mouthpice?.... why, because I choose not to believe everything is immediately a conspiracy?.....

BTW, do tell us when is a person considered dead, and do tell us whether or not an ambulance has the equipment necessary to do what you said, and what do paramedics do once the person is considered dead, as in braindead. That I know of an ambulance does not have full life support, and a braindead patient is just gone.

I am just getting tired of people who claim that "because someone does not agree immediately with their opinions, they must be some government agent...or in your case you are trying to portray me now as a mouthpiece....


It is really getting tiresome.

Anyways, in this case if you can give a real piece of evidence to suggest this was anything else than just a mugging that went wrong, I might change my mind, depending on what you call evidence.

But instead what I keep seeing is defamation of character being done by some members when someone else does not bow down to their opinions and immediately agree with them.


[edit on 4-4-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 02:14 AM
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i'm always amazed when 'vocal' members become 'wounded' by others 'strong speech'.

especially 'tough guys'.

the emperor has no clothes, in both the microcosm, and the macrocosm.

anyway, thank you evil elf, for putting useful information in to my brain.

add 40 some microbiologists to the list, hunter s. thompson, joe vials, seneator wellstone, the entire kennedy clan, etc. and you have a "looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck".

hell, even most of the major players are hiding behind the same BUSHES. and making home ENRONs, and "have mores" are having "even more" at haliburton and raytheon and gideon and whatnot.

america sank into the infomire way back in the times of jeckyll island and HIDE YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND.

[edit on 4-4-2006 by billybob]



posted on Apr, 4 2006 @ 08:43 AM
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Since when is it an offense to wonder? Isn't that what conspiracy theory is all about, wondering what the heck is going on behind the scenes when things just don't seem to add up, or when it seems there may be more to a situatiuon than meets the eye?

A good dose of healthy skepticism is one (or used to one) of the defining traits of the average American citizen. Have we all become so "Comfortably Numb" that we just "Want to be Sedated"?

"There's only 24 more hours to go, I want to be sedated. Nothing to do, nowhere to go, I want to be sedated."

Do not go gentle into that good night, my friend. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

DO NOT GO GENTLE



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