Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
It seems that America collapsed some time ago,and has been getting sucked into the rest of the world ever since.
Maybe those in control of the country should be more truthful about the condition of this country,and how long it has been that way.
Wait...........that must be why it is turning into a police state!,so when they admit that America has been sucked dry of it's soul,there will be laws in place for the forced acceptance of the truth,to make it legal to do as they please in the name of "national security".
BaaaaBaabaaaaabaaaa

a lot of truth in this no doubt.

but how is accelerating the decline a good idea?

I fail to see it.

Originally posted by THENEO


a lot of truth in this no doubt.

but how is accelerating the decline a good idea?

I fail to see it.

An end with horror is better then a horror without end.

for those who think america is evil and all that other stuff, you are only partially right, but that is not neccisarily to include the entire government, as a whole, america is declining into bureacracy much as the soviet union did before it's breakup, now i'm not one to say i support my government, but i do love my country, but the road it's headed upon takes it to a destination i'd rather watch on bbc. i for one am kinda glad i'm in europe now, and i'm accumulating euros, i never spend them, i only use my dollars, and will soon start changing those into euros.

however, while i don't like to think of the us as the USSR, things are shaping out to be the same, large droughts of income, sharp contrast in the economic worth of people, the top class having more wealth than the rest is a rather unsettling thought, but it's very hard to set an equally paid middle class, that's been tried before, and it's ended in failure too.

as for the switch to the euro, i'd say with the EU, Russia, and maybe someday in the future east asian countries like japan or china, and OPEC too, the dollar has run it's course, so the US has two options. one being to follow the present hard nosed course, keep playing international peacekeeper, and refusing to give in to the EU. or a more reasonable but more humiliating course, give up our pride, join the EU, switch to the Euro, and ride the train to a Unified World Market, which will make the world more stable for a long time. however, since we're so damned independant from what everyone else thinks, i think we'll follow the former into collapse, and the pieces wil be picked up much like in the former soviet union.

as for me, i'm staying the hell out of the dollar scene once i leave high school.

What would you suggest be done to change the situation? There are plenty of political options and they would need to be "grassroots" efforts to get off the ground. At least it's a start.

Fry.........

REVOLUTION IS ABOUT AS GRASSROOTS AS IT GETS!

Thats the ONLY way, we have to tear down this beast from the top to the bottom. Period. The system is too far one to thier own making for us to ever do it by positive change. There is NO SUCH THING ANYMORE.

Economic collapse is a catalyst, many things will happen after that. You guys are too narrow in your thinking, think outside the box.

Economic collapse. I posted about this in another thread. It wouldnt be just the US that suffered. Other world economies would drop, and would be too busy trying to salvage themselves to even think of crossing over and attacking us.

Military. He or She who contols the military has a better chance of taking over. the question is, who will our armed forces side with? Will they stay unifed?

NO. This is OUR armed forces. They come from the civilian population. They have families and friends. This is thier home. Wouyld they serve the same govornment that has tormented, used the, poisoned them, and taken thier liuves and sent them how many places for no good reason? NO. The minute the govornment would try and use the military against a rioting, hungry, angry civilian population would be the minute they lost complete control of the military.

The Morale of our own military has sunk, and believe me, service and loyalty to the govornment are pretty much at the bottom of the list of reasons people join up the military. Even when I was in, yes.... there was dissent amongst the ranks. We would wehisper amongst ourselves such ideas, hatred for the govornment, even guys who had been in 20 plus years. Doesnt matter what chunk of the army youre in, infantry, tanker, supply, or if youre an airforce puke. It doesnt matter. The dissent is already there.

Remeber in Iraq, the total lack of action we took against civilian looters? Almost NONE. The soldiers stood there and watched passively, even assisted the looters. What do you think they would do back here at home?

So, the elites dont even have thier own military to fall back on. So, in case of economic collapse, not only would they have nothing to pay the soldiers with, or feed them, the soldiers would probably turn on them anyway.

Now that the military is out of the way, lets look at other things. It isnt just currency. Where do they get thier money and wealth from? Mind you, total economic collapse and a collapse of the system means an end to laws and regulations PERIOD. Laws and regulations can only be ebforced by the gun. The money they posses isnt worth the paper its written on. What other assets do they have? Money is now worthless, entire fortunes turned to dust. Gold? If it doesnt get stolen first. The companies they own will rpoduce products that no one can afford to buy. The power that be will try and try again to regain control, but you cannpot control nothing.

Anarchy will prevail. Govornment leaders will eb hunted down and killed by angry wild mobs looking for revenge, sport, or something to eat. Anarchy will prevail, there will be no law but local laws set up for emergencies. We have an armed population.

But anarchy is always but a temporary state of affairs, true anarchy cannot exist for long. Because in the chaos, there will be group after group trying to gain dominance. One eventually might take control, but can they control the nation as a whole? Unlikely. Unless they work it right.

Banks will becoem irrelevant, because as I stated, there is no law. They try and come and reposses or collect worthless debts, they might get shot at. There will be no law. Because when you have a nation of 300 million people who suddenly have lost everything and have ALOT of time on their hands, what do you think they people will do?

Its the only way. Its a very bloody way, a very total and final solution to the evil that overshadows us, but its the only way. You cant paint over a house that is infested with termites to the point the basic structure has been comprimised. You have to burn it to the ground. And then rebuild. What other choice do we have? NONE. Its the only way, and its the only chance. To make everything in this soceity irrelevant. Banks, Laws, ect, all of it gone overnight, a total collapse of civilization itself. To rebuild anew, hopefully. But its a chance.

How does one gain this state of total chaos, anarchy, and insanity? the mob, the cattle must be thrown into a stampede. The only way that will happen is to rob them of thier grazing land. Take away thier satalite TVs, thier SUV, thier luxuries. The infrastructure. They suddenly will find themselves without food, TV drugging, electricity, and jobless. Total nothingness. And they will suddenly find themselves ready to do anything to at least get thier fat bellies stuffed again.

You think it improbable? The mighty Russian empire fell overnight, thier leaders dragged away and executed. Many powerful dynasties and empires have fallen when they no longer could keep the cattle complacent and fed. Even the mighty Illuminati/Zionist/Technocrat tripod can get kicked aside. But the pillars that support them must be kicked out from underneath. We cant have depression. We need total destruction. And it can happen. Its a delicate recepie, and you need the right ingredients to get it cooking. But it can happen.

Leveler, ask the AMERICAN blacks if they think good can come from a civil war. We lost more people in the civil war than any other conflict, yet in the long run, it was a sacrifice that benefitted more than it hurt, because you no longer had people of color chained up to whipping posts or getting sold like animals at the auction block. But the only way to end the horrific institution of slavery was by bloodshed. Replacing govornments takes violence. Hitlers regime and playhouses of horrors were onlys topped by bloodshed. The sword is the only way.

In the short term, it will be bloody and painful, many of us might even lose our very lives living in such a state of anarchy. But thats our problem we only think short term, we only think of our lives, we have never considered going beyond our short life span and looking our for generations to come. Our policy of short term fix to get as comfy for another year is whats killing us.

We must make short term bloody sacrifices for the long term ebenfits. Its not just you you need to think about. Its the children of your children and firther down the line.

I curse my grandparents, great grandparents, and beyond for bequething me this world, in thier time they sat back and did nothing, they allowed the beast to grow so it would someday feed on me. And if nothing is done in my generation, then my decendants shall curse me and my kind for leaving them a world that is dehumanized. So, in the short term, meaning my generation its a sacrifice that must be made for posterity, because.....

It is better to have NO future than to have a future of slavery and subservience.

I dont want the EU and thier left wing dehumanized OWO/NWO oppresion. I have no desire to be a slave to that superpower. And I have no desire to live under a right wing PNAC Bush superpower agenda of theocratic oppresion, poverty, and slavery to the elite. But unless something is done, either or will take over.

And we need the catalysts to happen quick, so we can take all our enemies down with us as well.

And here I thought you were a pessimist....

I think your idea is a bit extreme and I don't see any way that you could make your "dream" a reality.
I can think of better ways to change things through politics and education of the blind masses(such as this site does). A bloody revolution would never work in this country. Do you have any idea who the largest employer in the world is?

The U.S. Government. Why would the population EVER put themselves out of work for an anarchistic ideal? They won't! You may, however, be able to affect a change in their thinking though and possibly get rid of the two party system through less radical means than bloodshed. I don't see the immediate need to resort to violence. We don't live in a police state. We still own firearms(just in case). We still have the right to hold this conversation. And best of all I can still drive around in my SUV and intimidate people in compact cars!!! Kidding! (sort of).

If they were to declare GWB dictator and attempt to diasarm us as well as declare martial law......

That's a WHOLE different story.

They will never expect US troops to fire on US citizens, they are far too smart for that.

What will happen is US troops will be maintaining martial law in Europe, and the Middle East, shooting civilians and running internment camps. This will be overseen by the UN as part of the NWO. This will be required to reduce looting and rioting during the coming economic collapse.

European troops will be stationed in the US, and they will be rounding up US citizens. Make no mistake about military discipline, it works.

It is very easy to convince some young soldier to kill an enemy that has a different coloured skin, or speaks a different language. It is the patriotic and Honorable thing to do.

They will have a lot more trouble with police officers though. They are local, and most of them will hesitate to massacre the civilians of their own country. But they just might be fooled into believing it is required to maintain law and order in the extreme circumstances.

The coming economic collapse is planned and it is being done for a reason. It is all part of a long term worldwide plan.

Your opinion on this very nearly matches mine,the US military is getting overstretched in Iraq and elsewhere already,and a lot of them are getting sick from various ailments which take the forces down a bit more.
One big problem in the US and the UN will come over here with the blessings of the stupid scared sheeples,with foreign military the posse comitatis law does not apply,but it does amount to something more sinister which the dumbasses won't notice until too late.
Sometimes I wonder if the whole Iraqmire thing was a plan to get foreign governments and troops to dislike the US to make the dirty job they will have to do justifiable in their own minds.
It is scary to see someone thinking the same way I do,maybe I am not as crazy as I thought.
The thing that really bugs me is how the sheeplemasses don't even realise they are not the ones being protected,the greedy bastards are trying to protect themselves from the sheeplemasses,they know what will happen if there is an uprising,and people have been pushed too far to take it much longer.
I wonder what the media outside the US will tell the rest of the world when this happens?.

Unbalanced,

Here in Australia we have not invaded anyone, or are ever likely to with our tiny armed force. However, over the last few years there has been a massive recruiting drive here, to build up the numbers of armed forces personnel. Another worrying feature of all of this is that the Australian army has been holding joint exercises which are mainly to do with urban control. That is roadblocks, issuing of identity cards, house to house searches, and urban anti gorilla warfare. We have always had an elite special services unit, but now this is being rapidly expanded far beyond what it has always been in the past.

I cannot believe that Australian troops will fire on Australian citizens, and we do not really have the terrorist threat here that it is made out. Neither are we about to revolt and overthrow our own government. Troops are being trained for overseas service under UN command. This sort of thing now seems to be going on in every country, but you do not hear a lot about it in the media.

My bet is, that there will be a controlled level of unrest allowed to build up worldwide, and gradually every country will become a military dictatorship under permanent martial law. However the guy that sticks the gun in your face will not be from your own country.

The coming financial crash will be the beginning of this new era I believe.

In my opinion it is not the nation or its ideals that are wrong or are in need of collapse. It is the average individual and their ownsense of self along with attitude that requires adjustment.
We as a species have come along way to throw it all down the tubes. We need to take a different approach to life and eachother to find balance. All you need is love! the rest will just fall into place.

Actually I don't think it would be that hard to convince the US armed forces to fire on Civilians, they have already had practice in Attica, Ruby Ridge, and lets not forget Kent State. Convince a already brainwashed grunt that some looting citizen is a terrorst (or worse un-patriotic) and I'm sure they would be a bit quicker than usual to pull the trigger.

Quite right Lucifer.

The fact that most people are up to their eyeballs in debt, have no savings, and expect the stock market to keep them in an affluent lifestyle are deluded fools.

There is going to be a very painful awakening pretty soon I think. When the baby boomers realize they are broke, no job, and uncle sam is not going to give them a hundred grand a year unemployment benefit.

They are going to get mad, and start taking what they want with guns. It will not be pretty.

Alternate Heaven.

The events you speak of seem typical of modern American life, along with school massacre/suicides, and so on. But it is not typical of the rest of the world.

Here in Australia there are twenty million people, and we have only a handful of shooting deaths per year. In America, the number of shooting deaths are now well into four figures.

If a cop pulled a gun on a motorist here, it would be front page news. It is now pretty routine in America I believe.

Actually I don't think it would be that hard to convince the US armed forces to fire on Civilians, they have already had practice in Attica, Ruby Ridge, and lets not forget Kent State. Convince a already brainwashed grunt that some looting citizen is a terrorst (or worse un-patriotic) and I'm sure they would be a bit quicker than usual to pull the trigger.

Wrong. Waco, Ruby Ridge, were both govornment agencies, FBI, ATF, against a tiny number of civlians in a normal setting, civilization intact. Kent State was a different Era, different time, different military. Things have changed considerably since then.

US troops no longer hold the ideas of god and country anymore, which may save them. No. In the case of a fullscale collapse and ruin, were talking a total breakdown of everything from command centers to the core of the beast, they would not, they would probably sit back and watch.

As was seen in Iraq, they did nothing to stop looting there, or enforce law and order. They come back home, it will be about the same. They simply dont believe strongly enough in thier cause or thier leadership to do such things. If they were ever ordered to do so, there would be some serious problems.

Back in the days of Kent State, the fear was communism, the hippies they were told were commies trying to destroy America. Thats when people were innocent, and trusted thier govornment. Its not like that anymore. This country has been seriously divided along many fronts.

As to the foreign troops, this is something I have often said myself. There is the problem, and thus, another reason why we need collapse QUICK. Before they can get it organized. But, I doubt, Unbalanced, that Americans would welcome foreign troops. You have to remeber, we havent had foreign troops occupying our soil for over 2 centuries. Do you really think even the dumbest satelite dazed burger munching cow is gonna feel warm and fuzzy about it? No...

Americans are still extremely paranoid and xenophobic, too much for them to ever take foreign troops on the soil. It would be a mess, especially with an armed population. Foreign troops would not be welcomed. Look how we treat unarmed foreign tourists and immigrants!

No, the collapse must happen, and soon, if we are ever to have a shot at regaining any control.

Fry.........

It is not an anarchist state I desire. Anarchy is but a tool, a means to an end, Anarchy is the kerosene dumped onto the old building to torch it.

You still assume that Americans can be educated and woken up. You seem to forget its too late for that. There are too many distractions and too many little toys for them to play with. They will only pay attention when these distractions are removed from under thier fat butts.

It is too late for anything else. You cannot eneact change because the agencies that hold the power are beyond the vote and the reach of the people. Buerocracy. You cannot vote the Federal reserve, the FBI, CIA< DEA
The only way out is collapse, period. Bloody civil war, total chaos, insanity.These things are temporary means to an end, an end of the living horror, as has been stated. It will not change peacefully. Name any major govornment positive change that has ended peacefully.

Hitler had to be destroyed with bloodshed. Slavery had to end with bloodshed. Romania was liberated through civil bloodshed. Communism in eastern Europe fell with internal bloodshed. Nothing worth having comes for free. The sooner Americans realize that true freedom and life dont come without sacrifice, the better. This "peaceful" change so they dont lose thier TVs and SUVs is thier road to enslavement. They already have the collar around thier necks.

The time for peaceful solution has long past. Youll lose your SUV one way or another. But one way youll be a slave, the other way you have a chance for escape.

And Phoenix Cross. your support for world market.....so you support NWO? Its not a matter of national pride, its a matter of national dominion. Just like I find it offensive the US dominating or occupying other countries, I find the idea of European dominion to be equally distateful and disturbing. We shed blood two hundred years ago to offically end european military and economic dominion of the US, Ill be damned if I allow that yoke to be saddled back on us again.

Besides, the Euro is as temporary as the dollar. The Euro might not last long either, as the new superpower will no doubtedly be in Asia.

Originally posted by Warpspeed

Unbalanced,

Here in Australia we have not invaded anyone, or are ever likely to with our tiny armed force. However, over the last few years there has been a massive recruiting drive here, to build up the numbers of armed forces personnel. Another worrying feature of all of this is that the Australian army has been holding joint exercises which are mainly to do with urban control. That is roadblocks, issuing of identity cards, house to house searches, and urban anti gorilla warfare. We have always had an elite special services unit, but now this is being rapidly expanded far beyond what it has always been in the past.

I cannot believe that Australian troops will fire on Australian citizens, and we do not really have the terrorist threat here that it is made out. Neither are we about to revolt and overthrow our own government. Troops are being trained for overseas service under UN command. This sort of thing now seems to be going on in every country, but you do not hear a lot about it in the media.

My bet is, that there will be a controlled level of unrest allowed to build up worldwide, and gradually every country will become a military dictatorship under permanent martial law. However the guy that sticks the gun in your face will not be from your own country.

The coming financial crash will be the beginning of this new era I believe.

Actually, Unbalanced, your Australian troops were photographed during the USA/Nato urban warfare exercises in Colorado very recently.

So u mean Im gonna have to bust caps into Ozzie troops when the UN NWO takeover comes?

Thats a damn shame, because I rather like Ozzies. I really rather not have to blow them away, but, no foreign army will ever be welcome in my country. Just as I hated being in my own army occupying foreigners, I have no taste for foreign forces occupying and ruling a country.

But America can never allow foreigners to occupy her. Never.

Hence the need for collapse now before they have a chance to enact thier plans.

I am sure the average Iraqi and Afghanistani feels exactly the same.

Yes, warpspeed, hence, the need for us to leave Iraq.

We would not like foreign troops romping about and trashing our country. So why the # are we doing it to thiers?

I believe the reason was that Iraq insisted in being paid in Euros instead of US dollars for their oil. This made the Europeans very happy, and is why they would not support the war on Iraq at any stage.

Saddam did this to piss of The US, which he certainly succeeded in doing. The whole middle east had to be shown that standing up to the US would not be tolerated. Hence the war. There never were any weapons of mass destruction, and Iraq never posed any military threat to the US. The threat was economic not military.

Iran has also been talking about only accepting Euros, but the Soviet Union has now actually gone ahead done it ! Yes Putin says they will now only sell oil for Euros, and it is one of the really big contributing factors for the accelerating fall of the US dollar.

Bush now knows he cannot win this economic war. There is no way he can threaten China and Russia with a military strike. He might attack Iran next, but what would be the point ?