I was waiting for another member to start this but I guess it won't happen so here it is.

The theory is that America needs a complete financial breakdown to remove those in power and start from scratch. The OPEC switching to the Euro currency theory would be the quickest way to this end but would it really change the VERY rich and powerful, or just the rest of us?
My belief is that if the american dollar were to plummet to nothingness, the entire world is going to suffer and the ones truly controlling EVERYTHING will come out un-scathed.
Any thoughts?

i kinda agree,

but what is going to stop this power strugle from happening again?

And when they fill the void left by the government that is ousted,we will all realise that things are very wrong in the US,unless "WE" make sure that it doesn't happen that way,but I think my views are the views of the minority,hopefully I am mistaken.

Nothing besides extiction of the race. Humans have a nasty habit of claiming superiority over others. That will probably never change.

Those in control are just that - in control. The families who own all will not be harmed. What, you actually think that America is the allmighty enemy? How liberally silly.
The collapse of America would do nothing but transfer the wealth of the modest citizenry into the hands of the banker. The citizen loses all, the bankers gain it. Where would the wealth go? Where did it go when the government defaulted in the '30's? Europe. International bankers. Where did most of the gold go to? Again, that's right, Europe. International bankers.

Man, some people get so wrapped up in the "powerful, evil nation" thing, they can't see that the power doesn't lie within the confines of the District of Columbia.

Sorry, fry, I was occupied in two different threads, and starting a new one was simply out of the question.

Anyway, its like a house that has been irreversable damaged by termites, you cant paint it, tenting the place didnt work.

The house must be burnt to the ground and built again.

This system is just too far gone and the corruption is entirely too deep to ever be used to save it. You cant use the tools they customized to obtain and maintain thier position to dethrone them.

A total economic collapse would efefct everyone, including them. Were talking an entire collapse of stockmarkets,d efaulted loans, the WORKS. The change in currency would proivde a good catalyst to change this, it would be the beginning.

Thier power base is based on money. Once the money is worthless, and this big juggernaut of a beast falls, it will take them with. They will have to use military might to keep the chaos from overboiling, and the question is:

do they have the military? Do they ahve enough power to maintain the military? Soldiers who arent getting paid, do you think they will turn against thier families and friends, thier fellow citizens?

No. Thus, the frighteing possibility of stationing UN troops in the US...an aspect of Kerry that scares the hell out of me.

Anyway it must happen. Ill put it to you this way, we are doomed if we continue upholding the current system and keep our comfy society intact. We are irreversably doomed. However, if it is destroyed, we have more a chance of regaining control of our own destiny than we would by trying to do things the nice way.

Economic collapse destroyed the mighty soviet union. Economic collapse also destroyed the Pre Hitler regime in germany. Economic collapse has destroyed many great powers. And it can be done again. The real worry is about who will take control, or who will be elected?

Right now, we have evil. But then, we would have at least a chance of not having evil rule us, which is more than we have now.

well if any of you know about the john titer myth

kinda sounds like it


and what about all the huge prisiones there making?

when this starts happening itll be years before they loss total power

I love it when seekerof joins a thread. It makes for hours of reading.

Skadi, Do you really think that those in power are not diverse in the portfolio department? I'm willing to bet that they have more commodity investments worldwide than you can possibly imagine.
Currency means nothing to these people.

[Edited on 8-10-2003 by Fry2]

My apologies, but 'google' literally kicks azz...I get carried away sometimes....
Sorry.


regards
seekerof

TC is correct is essence...Since the formation of the Federal Reserve, the government has sold out the Nation to the International Banking Industry.

Since the Bush family has gotten involved in politics, they've also sold us out to the Oil Industries as well. Not only financially, but sold out our Rights & Liberties as granted to us by God & described in the Consittution.

Our "money" has no value & is essentially nothing but "corporate scrip" as it is anyway.

So who has gained & who has lost? TC said it all...


[Edited on 8-10-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

How can anyone that is rational and lives in the first world anywhere, think that the US going down is a good idea?

Let's look at the likely outcomes:

1. US does not pay interest let alone debts owed to foreigners.
2. US ability to import is severely limited.
3. US ability to export may be severely limited.
4. Russia becomes world super power.
5. UN which has always had difficult relationship with the US now lords it all over America.
6. Cuba and any other banana republic within a plane ride away.
7. Most of the property, wealth and jobs in US disappear overnight.
8. The US currency becomes nearly worthless and other currencies take precedence like the Euro.

there is obviously more but I can add later on.

All of those things that you listed are already happening.
The US is a drowning person,the corruption in the government is pushing his head under.
It's being forced to collapse intentionally,from within,by the traitors in DC.

unbal,

look man if you think that the US is the most corrupt country in the world you haven't been around much.

I would say on average that it is one of the least corrupt in the world right now.

america will fall like the rest of the counties and empires.
if you look into the history of the world you will see that all countries and empires rise and fall. i think that america reached its top in 98-01 now its starting to go down. for example america helped so much counties but now the counties started to turn on america. south korea got help from america but now they want america out of their country. germany got help from america but now they are against alot of american policies.
also look at the laws that are being passed. for example now illegal imigrenats from mexico can have driving licenses.
also look at american dollars. the prices are going up and the working wages are also so soon american dollars wont be worth as much as they are worth today.

thats my two cents

Im amazed that there are very few people in this country who realize that the ideals of this country died with the industrial revolution. How can they have faith in a government that has no morals, they profit off of the death's of civilians. You see the point is that, yes there are corrupt governments and yes there will always be corruption, but its up to the people to decide whether they want to be complacent or bring the fury of justice on the opressors.

I tend to like the analog of the Phoenix arises from the Flame.......


regards
seekerof

I've often wondered if anyone else shared my opinion on America's need for complete collapse and reconstruction. It's a very unsettling idea, but one that is becoming more and more real. Unfortunately, I think that America has become like the drug addict that refuses to get help or turn his life around until he has hit rock bottom. It is true that American citizens (the one's who are SUPPOSED to be in control) will never be able to regain their rightful power, unless the entire government we now have, is completely removed. This would throw us into a state of total chaos and the financial and personal sacrifices we would all have to make would be enormous. Just like they were to the people who fought for our freedom in the Revolutionary War. The difference between now and then, however, is that people now don't consider their freedom to be worth the price. We've degenerated into a country interested only in "bread and circuses". We've lost sight of our foundations, and are unwilling to sacrifice our comforts.

The reason that our Constitution contains such truth and it's original laws are still valid and relevant, is that the authors were witnesses to the tyranny of England and the resulting revolution. They were able to form a foundation for a new, just type of government because they were the one's escaping the injustice of Britain. They were aware of the corruption that every government is susceptible to, and granted us the right to remove any such government from power.

"To secure these [inalienable] rights [to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
--Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776.

Anarchy or a revolution is a frightening concept, but the loss of all my freedoms to some power-hungry dictator, is downright terrifying.

for i do not believe in revolutions...
even though supposedly america was started as a revolution it was not for there is nothing new under the sun...

i do believe in evolution though...
as in a process becoming more together and positive over time...

not destroying and attempting to rebuild...
that is completely illogical...

Originally posted by bigsage
for i do not believe in revolutions...
even though supposedly America was started as a revolution it was not for there is nothing new under the sun...

Rebellion against tyranny may be an old concept, but our actual system of government, "of the people, by the people, for the people" was, in fact, a new idea. It was the first system of it's kind, and was referred to as an "experiment" by those who created it.
"I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master..." Thomas Jefferson-1804

i do believe in evolution though...
as in a process becoming more together and positive over time...

While I believe that mankind as a whole has the potential to evolve into an enlightened and beneficial part of the planet, I think that our pride and greed may be too powerful a force to allow it to happen. There will always be those with wealth or influence, who seek to gain power over those without.

The ability to progress is wholly dependent upon the freedom to progress. Oppression does not lead to progression, unless, those being oppressed, first fight to regain their freedom. Then they can evolve into a society that promotes progress.

not destroying and attempting to rebuild...
that is completely illogical...

All of the great empires of the world were formed by overthrowing the previous government and replacing it with a new one. Order cannot form from order. It must progress by way of order into chaos into order.

We could, feasibly, remove those in power now and replace them with people we deem trustworthy. But with the insane amount of illegal "laws" and practices now accepted in our country, it would not take long until we were right back where we are now. This would also not affect the "Rockefeller's and Rothschild's" in the country. They are not elected but exert a huge amount of control on the government. The corporations and elite are impervious to political change. As long as money is our "god", peaceful opposition will be inconsequential.

I wouldn't worry too much about a revolution, though. I don't think we, as a whole, have it in us to fight for freedom anymore. As stated by Napoleon Bonaparte,
"A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights."